Kloster

25 minutes ago, David Scott said:

There is also a page in Pavis GtA, called Lunar settlers in New Pavis, page 15. It covers enough outline; language, cults (Bisos & Turos for Carmanians) , occupations and names to make RQG adventurers even though it's for HeroQuest.

Thanks David. But I don't have anything from HW/HQ era, except for 'Deluxe Herowars'. This is why we reverted to 'River of Craddles' and 'Genertela'.

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

All very true. One gloss - in many Western societies, the Dronars and even the Horali are often thinly disguised conquered people who "Malkionized" many of their customs. You see this with the Seshnelan Martial Beasts, etc. Carmanos set up an empire that managed to combine Malkioni, Humakti, Storm Bull cultists, Spolites, and Dara Happans into a powerful war machine. It hit its cultural height in the late Second Age, and in the Third Age it conquered most of Peloria, but was senselessly brutal, gratuitously cruel, and plainly unjust. Raban the Beast would have made a perfectly normal later Carmanian satrap.

Thanks Jeff. I conclude from what you and Nick are saying that a Carmanian sorceror would have to be built on Malkioni rules more than on Lunar sorcery rules.

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

Regarding the OP, it's a funny munchkin thing to do, but IMHO it would alert the enemy by virtue of forcing a POW contest on the NPC.

Sure. This is why I said it has to be the last prep of an ambush, or more properly the first attack. After somebody receives an unwanted spell, the whole party knows an attack is in progress.

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

And I don't currently allow defensive boosting -- but that decision is almost entirely out of a need to limit the rampant bookkeeping required by RQG.

Same reason for me. You have in addition to remember by how much points each spell has been boosted. In addition, shamans and some sorcerors become impossible to attack magically because their spells are impossible to dispel.

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

The 200L was because it's the price of a 1 RP one-use spell, if I remember correctly?

Your memory is good.

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

It's entirely conjecture and extrapolation that this is what would be the price/POW for an enchanted item.

Yes, pure conjecture. I was looking for something as a base price, and is the only source I found.

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

It's a good idea to start from there to come up with a reasonable price, but at best that's the price you'd give the enchanter for the entire transaction.

I don't think so, because you need to pay the enchanter for his work and you need to pay for the object. If you don't, a horse bone with protection 4 would cost the same as an iron sword with silver and gold ornaments enchanted with bladesharp 4.

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I find it a bit weird (or at least surprising) that the fixed cost part (1000 L in RQ2, 500 L in RQG) outweighs the cost of the enchantment in the vast majority of cases.

I agree with you, the enchanter's work is underpaid.

5 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Check the cults that even teach Dispel (in RQG).  It's an interesting and extremely short list.

Yes, as you say, remarkably short. But you can learn spells outside your cult, though not at creation time.

27 minutes ago, Psullie said:

This was clarified here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-players-book-print/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-qa-by-chapter/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-chapter-11-magic/

scroll down to the boosting example.

though many GMs don’t allow it

This ruling in 'Well of Daliath' is horribly written: To the question about boosting a spell to making it harder do dispel, the answer is that 'it is always possible to boost a spell' referring to p248. But nowhere p248 can you find anything about boosting to defend, only to pierce magical defense. Follows an example, and a reference to p278, which has nothing concerning the subject.

I think, if this is the wanted ruling, to have clearly written in the rules that you can always boost a spell, and that the boosting MP count both to pierce magical protection AND to resist dispel/dismiss.

15 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Also, good use of Countermagic offensively is to throw even a CM 1 up right at the start of an ambush, makes healing slower and harder. 

Not quite. It would block your own disruption, and it is quite rare heal is only 1 point when you need it during the combat. If the fight is over, you only have to wait for 2 mn.

14 minutes ago, Psullie said:

This was clarified here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-players-book-print/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-qa-by-chapter/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-chapter-11-magic/

scroll down to the boosting example.

though many GMs don’t allow it

I haven't noticed this Well of Daliath ruling, and I find the wording unclear, but you are right. We really need an errata that clarify much things.

And when I GM, I don't think I will allow it either.

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Most GMs would allow this to happen once, then forbid it.  I really want to downvote the entire thread.

Why?

3 hours ago, Psullie said:

I feel that this is an acceptable tactic on the battlefield. Also if you play with boosted defence you could add a bunch of MP's to it to make it harder to dispel too. It can also happen to adventurers so I wouldn't forbid it. This is why getting the drop on your opponents is so important in RQ. 

Of course! If PC can do it, NPC will also do it to them.

24 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I was just saying that if you boosted the Spirit Screen with extra MP's for active defence, the victim would need to Boost their Dispel accordingly.

We already had quite a few threads on this subject, and I seem to remember you can only boost offensively, not defensively.

2 hours ago, icebrand said:

Yeah when I Instituted this rule back in my rq3 campaign (that anyone can supply pow for an enchant) one of my PCs, an orlanthi petty king tried to Institute a yearly "pow tax".

He got shot down by threat of uprising, and quickly learnt his political power was pretty weak.

We had the same rule, but nobody had such an idea, even if we had quite good munchkins.

38 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Would you donate blood? POW donation looks more similar to that - it's pretty harmless, mostly painless, and it's replenished naturally.

Of course I do, and I agree with you, mechanically, both I quite close. But I perceive conceptually giving POW more as giving a part of your soul.

4 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Check out @Nick Brooke old "Carmanian Sources" for some great ideas.  We ran mainly Carmanian Lunars for about 10 years, lots of fun.

http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/carmania/index.html

 

I've already read it (when I played my Carmanian). Great work.

12 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

I am fine with that, but the question now seems to be would a Spirit Screen 4 take down a Protection 3, or a casting of Spirit Screen 1 prevent the target from casting any Protection spell until it is dispelled?

No, a Spirit Screen 4 does not take down anything, at least as we play it. Either no incompatible spell is in place and it takes effect, or an incompatible spell is in place, whether 1 or 1 gazillion point, and it automatically fails.

As we play it, if a spell is in place and an incompatible spell is cast on the same character, it fails automatically. This is the source of the trick: If you cast spirit screen on an opponent before he has time to cast his protection spell, he first has to dispel the spirit screen before being able to protect himself. He thus loose at least 1 extra MP and 1 round. Not bad for a 1MP investment.

20 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Lunar Tarsh package should work reasonably well for Carmanians as both are more urban/city-dominated cultures and both are under the Red Moon.

 

That's what I thought. Thanks.

27 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I will not help you unfortunately...

but I m pretty sure there are more differences between carmanian and lunarized tarsh than between praxian and esrolian. Same for the magic / cult so ... maybe the son/daughter of a carmanian who lived in dragon pass following the lunar army could help : some carmanian origin (language, customs) but a lunarized cover (cultural skills and weapons)

I would like to see a "true" carmanian creation but the cultural backgroud seems to me very hazardous (the western part is not yet described and the local cults are so weird, I never understood cleary what it was ^^ )

I (in fact my player, that wants to play a Lunar in Prax) am not interested for the time being in playing an orthodox Heartland Lunar or Carmanian. What he wants is having a story for playing a lunar in Prax post Dragonrise, and remembered those settlers. The character would thus have been raised in Prax (for the personal history), but I don't think the Praxian cultural packages are OK. This is why I proposed using the Lunar Tarsh one, with slight modifications.

For the sorcery question, this is (currently) less important, as it is only sheer curiosity on how I would create my old character with RQG ruleset, but is not a request of my player for his character.

I think the only difference between Tulas and Forts would be the presence of a guard at a gate, but the rules would essentially be the same.

Inns being Inns, hospitality would of course be granted ... at a price.

For cities, depends on the chief.

For the codes and laws, I defer to people more knowledgeable than myself.

For the Lunar period / Liberated Sartar dichotomy, I think lunars would accept travelers with 'good reasons' like merchants, farmers or herders headed to a nearby market, ... but would be very annoyed by armed and armored guys not escorting a valuable cargo. They would in my opinion at least request said travelers to go unarmed in town. I feel Sartarite rulers would be more permissive toward Orlanthi people.

1 minute ago, Stephen L said:

Hunt?  Are you mad!

I am, but you are the one that proposed 'Jaws' inspired scenarios. And hunting the elasmosaurus is more on-theme than the people sunbathing on the beach, even if I could easily imagine people surfing while other are listening a bard singing Surfin' Esrolia.

18 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

But an excellent for Jaws inspired scenarios.

Yes, good idea. But who would hunt an aquatic lizard of more that 2 tons and 10 meters long with bronze age weapons, even enhanced with magic?

A player of my old group remembered that part of the lunar settlers in Zola Fel valley were Carmanians (River of Craddles p26), and wants his new character to be of this stock. As we currently have no infos about creating Carmanian (or other Lunar origin) characters, I proposed to use the Tarsh Lunar tables, replacing Tarshite language by Carmanian language. For personal history, Prax homeland will of course be used in that case. Do you have other ideas on what can (or should) be done?

Another question: While remembering my old character (a Carmanian officer whose family ended on the loosing side of a dart war and had been 'promoted' to a commanding post in Corflu as a result), I wondered what sorcery tradition would be to be used: Lunar (because being part of the empire) or Malkioni (because of the cultural heritage of the Carmanians), or a mix of both. What are your ideas on that?

31 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Munchkin!!!

Of course.

11 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Even if you really wanted to do that, it's merely a 1-pt spirit magic spell...

That can be in a matrix, brought in by the enchanter, just in case the POW giver does not know it!

46 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

and for me, as the intent is clearly offensive, POW vs POW is required

As for all not voluntarily accepted spells.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Whatever price per POW we can come up with is the price for the entire business of making an X points enchantment. That's not necessarily the price paid directly to the person sacrificing these points of POW. These people are just, at best, assistants, and they're taking an appropriately low percentage of that price (the enchanter has final word on how that money is allocated).

On this, I can not agree. The 200L/point I spoke is only for the POW. It does not include the cost of the object, nor the cost of the enchant itself. This is why I spoke of base price.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

If you consider a weapon making store, the blacksmith will take a high percentage of the price of a sword per point of damage, while the kid who pumps the furnace will only get a few coins. Similarly, the person who helps the master enchanter do their rituals (by sacrificing POW or cleaning the workbench or whatever) will also only get a few coins. The real mastery is in orchestrating the multi-POW-point enchantment, not in giving a point of POW per se. Anybody can sacrifice a point of POW, so it's cheap, of course. Common sense and extrapolation of the setting can therefore align... but see below for another option, however.

I figure that poor people may come by the local temple to donate POW and get a few coins, especially in the week before a holy day. Enchanters may have to adjust their contracting schedule accordingly, where if you order a special magical item, you get it after the next holy day. It would happen even if the enchanter was alone (since they also have to recover their own points), but by having volunteers from the local community, they can take on a few additional orders and spread a bit of wealth. Another common practice might be that the person who ordered the magical object has an appointment to come and provide most of the POW sacrifice in order to get a discount. I also assume that some places in the West make that an expected social obligation, whether it's via an Invisible God worship ceremony or something else.. like donating blood at the local blood blank. Of course, in those places, it might be framed differently because the enchanter would probably keep the benefits (and magical items) to themselves.

Agreed. Good ideas.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Another possible small tweak (which still fits the rules nicely) is to say that the people donating POW have to also know enchantment rituals, since they are participating in one. That way, you could only coerce Rune Masters and other people with access to enchantments... that suddenly becomes a lot harder to get free POW points from other people.

Not RAW, but good ideas.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

So as an example (with converted prices), and assuming I didn't make a mistake: a Bladesharp 4 Broadsword would be 50 L (price of the sword) plus 200 L * 50% = 100 L (for the spell) plus 500 L for "additional labour", which gives a grand total of 650 L.

Yes. In fact here, you are in line with my base price story.

4 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Interestingly, Griffin Mountain mentions that such a cool blade would most likely be decorated with silver and gems, and the total price would typically exceed 1000 L in this case. That's good flavour stuff, IMHO, where if you have magical item stores, the prices would be inflated because all the items are "flashy". And if a PC wants to pay the minimum by putting a big spell on a normal item, they would get a judgemental look from the enchanter.

Yes, of course. In addition, the flashy objects will attract attention to thieves, authority, brigands and others.

6 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Or casting it ahead of time to prevent an opponent from casting a similar level Countermagic, Shimmer or Protection?

This is an old classic: Casting a low level spell  that is incompatible with other you know or suspect your target has. In line with casting fanaticism on an opponent (to forbid him casting protection spells), especially if he is mounted (not against Praxians, of course). The target has to dispel/dismiss your spell before casting his own spells. But beware, somebody that receives an unwanted Spirit Screen knows that an ambush has started, so this has to be the last step of ambush prep, just before or better simultaneously with the range attacks.

As far as I have understood, there is no POW vs POW, because you target an area. This is why you can just walk away (if you are still alive, of course).

On 5/4/2020 at 9:26 AM, PhilHibbs said:

If it's in a matrix, it's POWx5, not a rune. So if you need a spell that you have a poor rune rating in, pop it in a matrix. Gets around the CHA limit on RP as well.

A bit of thread necromancy. While rereading the thread, I found this (perfectly valid) comment by Phil. You can go further, because if you put an attack condition (RQG p250), there is no roll. The Spell is just cast, but not by you. The no roll rule is not explicitly written, but as nobody is casting the spell, nobody can roll for it. And this is how it worked in RQ3 (iirc).

Another one: If you bind a spirit in a matrix or dominate it for a long duration and have him possess an animal, you can bring him to a cult ceremony and ask him to spend 1 MP. Given time, he will become a Lay member, and you can ask the priest to teach him spells. Then, having the spirit in a matrix, you are able to use those spells without having them count for your CHA allowance (and of course, you can use it's MP). Going further, you could even have him become initiated and having Rune spells (but you still have to use your own RP to cast them).