Arcadiagt5

3 hours ago, Mechashef said:

 

Does this work, or have I misunderstood the rules?

Yes, I think there’s a number of misunderstandings here, specifically that unless the GM explicitly rules otherwise actions are sequential not parallel. e.g I have allowed players to pull weapons while moving. There’s also the flat 5SR requirement for the 2nd spirit magic in a round.

But in this example:

• SR1 = Cast Multimissile-1
• SR2 = Shoot
• SR7 = Reload
• SR12 = Cast second Multimissile-1 (a second spirit magic in the same turn always costs +5 SRs to mentally refocus, and Multimissile-2 would blow the round limit by adding an extra SR).

The second round would look like:

• SR1 = Shoot
• SR6 = Reload
• SR7 = Multimissile (which only takes 1SR this time because it’s the first spell of the round)
• SR8 = Shoot leaving not enough time to reload or cast again.

At which point rd 3 starts with neither the bow loaded or multimissile on the arrow.

22 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

It's the case in RQ3 but is it also the case in RQG?

I was simplifying. The options are spelled out in full on RQG p195 and essentially boil down to:

• Spend a full round on pure defence, after which you're considered disengaged and can move away  at the end of the round or on SR6 if you're mounted and your opponent isn't. Can't be done at all if you're on foot & the opponent you're trying to disengage from is mounted. 
• Succeed in a Knockback attack, and move away after they're knocked back or down. Good luck. 
• Just move away anyway. This triggers the attack of opportunity which can't be parried or dodged. How good is your armour? 

21 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

Thanks.

That also raises the spectre of multiple arrows in a round having speedart on them.

I have a vague recollection (maybe a rule clarification), that spells cast on a weapon you're holding don't have the 5SR cost for swapping between spells / melee actions.  In which case an Dex SR 0 (elf for example), might cast speedart on SR0, then add 0 to fire arrow (i.e. still at 0), then 5 to draw arrow and prepare new spell (if you allow both preparation actions to be in parallel rather than series), then fire again with speedart at 5, and again at 10.

You’re welcome again.

I definitely wouldn’t allow those preparations to take place in parallel. I allow people to draw/change weapons whilst moving because those are both physical task that can be trained/drilled for reasonably well. Combining spiritually focusing your mind on a subsequent spell with pulling a weapon? That starts reminding me of the “you have to make an INT roll to do physical things and spirit combat in the same round” so I either wouldn’t allow it, or I'd impose an INT roll of no higher than INTx3 or both actions fail. 

EDIT: On second read I think you’re conflating the free hand with preparing the weapon. Yes you can cast speedart on the arrow in the bow (assuming that your speedart focus is carved into the bow), but pulling a new arrow is 5SRs, and preparing to cast a second speedart is another (and different) 5SRs. 

Having said that, speedart is a temporal passive. So there’s no reason why the sneaky elf can’t spend 5 rounds casting speedart on 10 arrows, and 5 rounds using those arrows just before the 2 minutes runs out. Assuming that said sneaky elf gets to plan when to start the engagement that precisely. 

3 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I play almost exactly as described by Arcadiagt5, thanks

You’re welcome!

4 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

That isn't clear to me from the clarification.

I play Dex SR = 0, fire at 0/5/10 (prepared), 5/10 unprepared.

However, I think we need clarification of the clarification!  (That almost deserves a smiley, except that I can't bring myself to use emoticons. What's wrong with (an) exclamation mark?  I agree, though, that more than one is beyond the pale.)

I am comfortable with the concept of something happening at SR0, but perhaps that's just my maths background.

From a mathematical perspective I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it either. From a myth perspective it creates the possibility of arrows going off before Rune Spells and that doesn’t feel right to me. But, yes, I think the clarification could do with some explanation as to why DEX SR0 is effectively SR1 in missile combat but actually SR0 in melee combat.

9 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

Magic, I only allow one spell each MR, regardless of type of magic.  But I now can't find the rule.  I'm beginning to think I've carried this across from RQii/iii?  

RQG RAW P194, second column: “Any subsequent spells require 5 strike ranks to prepare, even if the same spell is being used.” I also apply DEX on top, but on reading it again maybe I shouldn’t. I'll have to think about that. 

16 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

Indeed.  I skipped this section when reading the rules, anxious to get on with the fun.  I can get away with it because my players have *no* interest in rules, that's the GM's responsibility alone.  They just look at their character sheets for something written down that looks as though it might be useful.  However, some of the younger players are now beginning to help explain things to mummies and daddy.

As far as sorcery goes I generally point to the existence of this... thing. I'm sure it’s very good for what it does (I have some other play aids from the and they’re very good), but if a set of mechanics needs something like that to manage quickly, then just say no. 

Thank you all for your suggestions. What I'm currently considering is the following:

Yinkin:

1. STR = x2/3, round down to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 2D6
2. CON = +2, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 2D6+6
3. SIZ = x1/4, round down to reflect the shift from 2D6+6 to 1D6
4. DEX = x2 to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 3D6+12
5. INT, POW, CHA remain unchanged. (Which is a little sucktastic for the Yinkin initiate/priest given what a Shadowcat's POW looks like but these three define the inner person and can't be changed)

Odayla:

Here it depends on which type of bear you're talking about. This I'm not sure how to handle but my current thinking is that upon initiation most initiates hunted a Black Bear, so that's what they transform into. If they subsequently, in play, solo hunt, kill, and skin a Brown Bear and then a White Bear, they may progressively stack Transform Self (at additional RP costs) to choose those species (so twice for Brown, three times for White)

Black:

1. STR = x1.5, round up, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 3D6+6
2. CON = +2, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 2D6+6
3. SIZ = +3, to reflect the shift from 2D6+6 to 3D6+6
4. DEX = unchanged
5. INT, POW, CHA remain unchanged.

Brown:

1. STR= x2.5, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 3D6+15
2. CON = +2, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 2D6+6
3. SIZ = x2, to reflect the shift from 2D6+6 to 3D6+15
4. DEX = unchanged
5. INT, POW, CHA remain unchanged.

White:

1. STR= x3, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 3D6+21
2. CON = +2, to reflect the shift from 3D6 to 2D6+6
3. SIZ = x2.5, to reflect the shift from 2D6+6 to 3D6+21
4. DEX = unchanged
5. INT, POW, CHA remain unchanged.

Wildday Restriction:

I am undecided if I'm going to keep this, or allow it to be bent somewhat for the cost of additional Rune Points. 

8 hours ago, Redjac said:

Assuming a DEX SR of 1 and a prepared arrow with a quiver to draw new arrows, can one fire arrows on SR 1, 6, and 11? 

I think this requires a DEX SR0 to achieve, if then*.

If already loaded, the sequence is DEX (or 1 if 0)+5+DEX (or 1 if 0)+5+DEX (or 1 if 0). 

So bold below is when the shots take place

• DEX SR=0 ==> 1+5+0+5+0 = 11. 3 shots, weapon unloaded. Next round: 5+0+5+0=10. 2 shots, weapon unloaded. Rinse, Repeat, can move 2 each round, or cast Spirit Magic up to 3MP*
• DEX SR=1 ==>1+5+1+5=12. 2 shots, weapon loaded. Rinse repeat. But moving or casting costs a shot. 
• DEX SR=2 ==> 2+5+2=9. 2 shots, weapon unloaded. Next round: 5+2+5=12. 1 shot, weapon loaded. Some flexibility for moving/casting ROF alternates 2/1
• DEX SR=3 ==> 3+5+3=11. 2 shots, weapon unloaded. Next round is: 5+3 = 8. 1 shot, weapon unloaded. ROF after first round always 1, with move/casting allowance.
• DEX DR=4 ==> 4+5=9. 1 shot, weapon loaded. Rinse repeat, 3SRs to move/cast with. 

* I'm not sure but there may have been a rule clarification somewhere that this interpretation is wrong, and that DEX SR0 should be treated as if it were DEX SR1 for missile fire. 

EDIT: Found it = Scroll down to Rate of Fire here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/chaosium/runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-players-book-print/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-qa-by-chapter/cha4028-runequest-roleplaying-in-glorantha-chapter-08-combat-qa-part-2/

If I'm reading that correctly, DEX SR=0 should be treated as if it is DEX SR=1 for the purposes of missile fire. So 2 shots a round is the maximum. 

12 hours ago, Adaras said:

Hi everyone

So I bought the PDF cause I love bronze age stuff and really digging the book  even though it could really use some stuff for the GM like NPCs and a Bestiary.

Anywho.

Strike Ranks! They took me some time to wrap my head around. 

Welcome and yes SRs do take some getting used to. I have some relatively new players in my Roll20 game & this is how I recently explained it in our discord:

In melee there are three components:

• How fast you are (DEX)
• How much reach you have (SIZ)
• How long your weapon is.

In general you can only attack once in melee. Partial exceptions apply for two weapon use (if you're crazy enough to go there), and skills over 100% where you can elect to split your skill if your melee SR is <= 6. Or three ways if you somehow get to 150% and a MSR of <= 4. 

In missile fire there are, for most cases, two components:

• How fast you are (DEX)
• The flat 5 SRs needed to pull a weapon out, put a weapon away, load an arrow, etc.

So, assuming you loaded last round, your first arrow goes on DEX (or 1 if your DEX SR = 0), and the second on DEX + 5 + DEX again. If you weren't loaded last round, your first shot goes on 5 + DEX. In either case if you have 5 left but not 5 + DEX, you can reload but not shoot. If you don't have 5 left, you can't reload this round. 

For movement each 3m (6m if you have Mobility cast) costs you 1SR. If you spend more than half your movement, you can't engage in melee, cast spells, or shoot missiles. (Exception applies for lance charges in my house rules because moving fast is the whole point)

For spells there are four components:

• Type (Rune/Spirit/just say no to Sorcery)
• How fast you are (DEX, spirit magic only)
• Time to refocus on the next spell (5, spirit magic only)
• Magic points (both)

Rune Spells: You cannot cast any other magic in a round where you case a rune spell. It goes off on SR1 + any SRs you spent moving + (MP-1). NB: You can add MP to a rune spell that otherwise does not need them to punch through countermagic. e.g. A Lightning-1+0 bounces off Countermagic-4. A Lightning-1+4MP kills the Countermagic and then has a chance to affect the target.

Spirit Magic: First spell goes off on DEX+(MP-1)+ any SRs you spent moving. Requires a free hand or that you be holding the relevant focus/target of the spell (e.g. casting bladesharp on the sword you're holding). For the second spell in the same round, even if it's a repeat: +5+DEX+(MP-1). So two 1 point Disruption spells can often happen, but two Heal-6 can't (because there's 15 SRs right there before DEX, and you generally can't carry stuff between rounds). 

Mixing and Matching: This depends on your status. If you are not yet engaged in melee you can move to engage, cast a spell, then attack. Once engaged (in subsequent rounds), you are pinned (so are your opponent(s)). Moving triggers an attack of opportunity (generally). If you don't move you can a) defend and cast spells or b) attack and defend. Moving, casting, and missile fire can be combined, but be aware that this is likely to cost you your second shot that round. 

I hope this helps. 

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

I would probably indeed roll-up the physical characteristics of the shadowcat, or eyeball vaguely where the character is as a human (below/mid/above average) and pick corresponding characteristics for the shadowcat. Telmori have weird werewolf characteristics compared to normal wolves, but that's because they're a special case. In the case of a Yinkin character, the whole point to me is to transform into a normal alynx, so you can sneak around, go through small openings, and eavesdrop on people. If the character transformed into a big-ass alynx that is obviously not normal, that would defeat the point IMHO.

Another useful option, and rationale, for me to consider as I have both a Yinkin in one game and an Odaylan in another to deal with.

4 hours ago, Whizbang said:

The rules are not clear, but I read Transform Self as requiring an Odaylan to stack all three Rune spells with the Transform Self cast.

That is nine Rune points in one cast, only castable on Wildday.

It had better make me turn into the biggest baddest white bear possible, amped up by the benefits of the individual Rune magic spells.

Where does the Wildday restriction for Odaylans come from? I don’t recall seeing that in the rules?

14 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

If you're doing that, then the stats should just fall out of associated rune spells.  As I imagine one of the spells will be cat's agility (as opposed to bear's strength), possibly their Con if cat's health is an important aspect... 

Flight, in itself isn't the issue, in and of itself.  Its the fact that it's wrapping it with a ruddy Humakti Duck (if you pardon language), whose small, sneaky, has 18 Pow and sever spirit, and is quite handy with his truesword...  And it's being played by a 7 year old, who is very good at roleplaying a... ruddy Duck.

None of the runespells lend themselves to stats in the case of Yinkin. The three spells are Catseye, Claws, and Identify Scent.

I applaud that 7 year old, and feel that they have a bright future ahead of them! 🤣😂🤣😂

9 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I would base it on the character’s original, but increase Dex and Con, but reduce Siz and Str, to reflect a shadowcat’s relative characteristics strengths/weaknesses.  Perhaps +6, +3, -6 ,- 3 respectively, but that’s going to depend what works in your campaign.

However, rolling up shadow cat characteristics that are completely different to the human form could be fun.

Beware of small characters.  The adventurers in my campaign have discovered that the low Siz duck can be easily flown (or sylph carried) to places he really doesn't belong.  Now they tend to do that in lieu of a plan.  "Right, cast fly on Pengy, now what guys?"

The +6/+3/-6/-3 is an interesting suggestion. Although it would still mean a SIZ10 Shadowcat which is enormous. Thanks.

Warning about small characters duly noted. Although none of my Orlanthi have Flight (yet)

Then again several have Hippogriffs... 🤣

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

I would halve SIZ and multiply DEX by 1.5. Keep the other Characteristics the same.

Double SIZ as well - Battle Cat!

Also an interesting suggestion, and one I’ll look at. Thanks.

Ahh...no... I don’t think I'll double the SIZ though. Shudders at the thought of a Shadowcat with a 2D6 damage bonus and the ability to learn from experience...

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

i would follow the same process than Odayla :

2 spells, both dedicated to one characteristic, no change for the rest, and a third (already described for Yinkin : claws ) for the attack style. So one for size because it transform the human into a shadowcat, and one maybe for dex, which seems to be the "typical" shadowcat characteristic

but this rule is dangerous. If an average bear fights against an average shadowcat (animals), the bear probably wins. What with both average humans, one transformed into bear the other into shadowcat ? seems the shadow catwoman to be the winner, doesn't she ?

 

I am following the same process as Odayla, and also Telmori, of requiring stacking of a set of Rune Spells with Transform Self. What wasn’t clear was how to handle characteristics, or for that matter skills and spells. 

I am for story reasons giving a Yinkin initiate PC Transform Self based on the Telmori spell in the Bestiary. But there's no real guidance there as to what the physical/mental characteristics look like post the transformation. 

Should I just keep the mental characteristics (INT/POW/CHA) and roll up a set of physical characteristics for a "normal" shadowcat?

Or would some/all physical characteristics carry across unchanged as well? (The latter could be hilarious for SIZ as it makes for a big Shadowcat). 

What do people think the MGF ruling should be? 

Yes to all of this. Especially in the COVID era when an increasing number of games have to be played online. 

18 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

What happens if you play it straight?  The hippogriff riders being a non canon resource will make the battle slightly different. 

If the players think of it they could do aerial reconnaissance, and what they learn will depend on Scan and Battle skill rolls.  Then they have to get that info back to the commander.  Who may or may not change plans. 

The hippogriff riders can throw down javelins, or even rocks, which probably get a plus to damage from falling from a height; and cast spells, which they could have done on foot anyway.  Then they and their mounts are subject to be hit with all kinds of magic from Disrupt on up.  

This is a battle after all, so large troop units.  And these riders are clearly visible in the sky, unless they say they intend to fly nap of the earth.   What happens when the Hippogriff rider is seen by 100 enemy, of whom 10 have Disrupt, and who cast it in the same round?  Assume 50% target the mount, 50% the rider. 

What happens if someone on the ground casts Befuddle and succeeds? Now the hippogriff is essentially unguided to follow his or her own wishes, which may not be to participate in a battle. 

What happens if ... Darkwall (do they fly on instruments?) , Demoralize, Firearrow, Multimissile...   now go though the list of rune spells.  The possibilities!

 

Definite possibilities there, thanks.

15 hours ago, David Scott said:

First there are couple of straight forward factors - range:

spirit magic - 50m

rune magic - 160m

If you want the adventurers swooping down to attack, then just use the (pendragon) Battle rules unmodified as they will get into weapon range.

If the just want to skirmish and stay further than 50m, then it's only rune magic that can affect them. Modify the attack accordingly with just ranged weapons that could reach.

The rules are about involving the players not making it one sided in their favour. They will attract the attention of the specialist units that can reach them. 

Good thoughts there too. The biggest problem is that I’ve never been entirely happy with the Pendragon battle rules, they just never seemed to quite work for me for either the macro scale or the individual experiences. 

13 hours ago, Minlister said:

I would have them fight wyvern riders. The important point is for them to live an epic fight, changing the tide of the battle is probably beyond the means of a group of PCs considering the heavy weights involved in the event. They could also serve as "Valkyries", swooping to fetch back dead heroes' bodies in order to allow for their later resurrection. This is a very important task, I think. 

Ooooh, nasty. That might happen. I might allow them to tie themselves into their saddles first though. 

I've been looking at this thread (very useful, recommended) re the Battle of the Queens, and I'm wondering how to handle it when a good number of the PCs have Hippogriffs from The Pegasus Plateau. 

Does anyone have any particular thoughts or suggestions? 

I mean, I could just go with "You muster with the tribal militia and leave the hippogriffs behind because they don't work in formation", but that seems like cheating somehow. 

3 hours ago, lordabdul said:

 

 Instead, MGF starts with the result: is it more fun to have the hippogriff hover?

As I noted earlier this is precisely the reason I have ruled that hippogriffs can hover in my games. 👍 to @lordabdul

25 minutes ago, Silent one said:

1100pm sounds fine. only starts getting dicey at 1200 +   a 8.30 to 1100 thing sounds ideal for me     Ive only played Mage on d20 while using discord for the voip.  So youll have to walk me though what you have set up     

 

As it happens we use Discord for voice as well so that's basically the same. Welcome aboard I guess, how does this Thursday sound for a character generation session (since it does take a while)?

3 hours ago, Silent one said:

HI. Still looking for players?   Im in NZ Christchurch.  So dont know if thats timezone friendly. Im an experienced Runequest . stormbringer player / gm if thats helpful.   Though its been a while Id love to get back into it.  Back in the day it was my fave game   

 

Cheers

Allan

Hi Allan, I'm willing to try if you are but I'm worried that it won’t be particularly timezone friendly for you. For example I’m currently playing D&D on Friday nights with friends in Perth. So, currently, 6:30PM to 10:00PM for them is 8:30PM to Midnight for me. And it’s about to get an hour worse than that for me when daylight savings kicks in here but not there.

A quick look at the world clock shows a two hour time difference so if 8:30Pm to 11:00PM is OK with you, then maybe we can give it a go. 

We are still looking for a player or two. 

8 hours ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Aha, I knew I'd seen it somewhere:

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/8399-runequest-core-rules-questions/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-129421

I agree that the wording is weird though!

Thanks for that! 

42 minutes ago, Mugen said:

That means a ~24% chance that both characters will take damage in an exchange (with 60% chance only one does and 16% chance none take damage).

I'm actually OK with those numbers. They make spirit combat brutal, and not something to be engaged in lightly.

It’s the multiple embodied entities engaging the same spirit that I am increasingly thinking is dodgy, and against the intent of the rules. 

29 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

p366 says "Spirit Combat may occur between two discorporate entities  or between a discorporate entity and an embodied entity", and later "Any number of discorporate spirits may attack a single entity at a time" - so I guess multiple embodied entities can't engage in Sprit Combat vs the same foe at the same time.

That would return the threat level I guess. In the case of Crimson Petals it makes resolving one key aspect of the scenario somewhat terrifying as it is likely that multiple characters will have to engage sequentially, and take the associated risks, before the spirit is defeated.

18 minutes ago, Mugen said:

It's hard to say if that was the intent, or if the second sentence is just an example of a tie...

However, given how frequent ties are in the skill opposition rule of RQG, your interpretation is IMHO better than the other.

I would tend to take it as just an example. In all cases of ties (except mutual fails), both do damage. It’s just that on a critical the amount of damage exchanged is probably Mutually Assured Destruction. 

59 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Our group is facing the same decision.  I think my PC is the only heavy warrior contemplating down-armoring by 2-3 points everywhere.

The price you pay for a glorious mount out of legend! 😂🤣😂🤣

11 hours ago, David Scott said:

MGF - They hover like birds of prey. Hovering and performing actions is equal to your ride (Hippogriff) skill (like horses). 

Don't sweat the details. 

This is now the official ruling in my game, and precisely for the reason of MGF. 

On a related note several of my players also picked up hippogriffs and I've been working out how to bridge the gap between their current stats and those of a full grown hippogriff in the Bestiary.

What I've settled on is that they can currently be ridden/flown as light cavalry until they reach an average SIZ/STR of 26. So no more than 3pt armour and moderate weapons for now, Cue loud cursing from the Thane of Apple Lane who had to give up his bronze greaves/vambraces. 😂

However, at each Sacred Time the hippogriffs will grow 2 points in each of their juvenile stats & increase their skills by 5% until they reach their mature stats. I hope this is a useful mechanic for other GMs who've run the excellent Pegasus Plateau adventure, my players in the Perth group really enjoyed it. And I’m looking forward to Sea Season 1627 when I can run it for my other group...