BRP or Warhammer

[tgcb]

I'm sure some of you have played both BRP and Warhammer.

If so, could you give me a comparison of both, and why you prefer one over the other (I assume you prefer BRP???).

Thanks!

[Barliman]

Overall BRP is much the better mechanical system. Characters don't "top out" nearly as quickly as they can in WFRP, and stats and skills are more neatly separated. ("Ballistic Skill" (BS) in WFRP is treated as a character stat, for example). Magic is also better handled in BRP. The thing to remember with WFRP is that it was a quick-and-dirty adaptation of the miniatures game, and this often shows through.

On the other hand, WFRP has some advantages: it's simple and easy to teach (like BRP); combat I think is faster than BRP; the career system is a nice way to impart campaign color and get players to think about the future of their character; and Fate Points are a brilliant yet simple way to allow generally low-powered characters the miraculous escapes usually only given to legendary heroes. But I think all this can be readily emulated in BRP.

This isn't meant to be a thorough analysis; just some quick observations. I GMed and enjoyed WFRP for many years, and happily used their system. Next time, however, I'll use BRP. :thumb:

(Note: in the above I'm talking about WFRP 1E. I'm familiar with 2E, but I greatly prefer the older edition.)

[cjbowser]

I'm sure some of you have played both BRP and Warhammer.

If so, could you give me a comparison of both, and why you prefer one over the other (I assume you prefer BRP???).

Thanks!

I've run both, although the only WFRP I've run is 1E. I prefer BRP for several reasons. I find BRP to be a more flexible system. One of the rules of thumb with BRP -- coined by Soltakss I think -- is that if you can do it in real life, you should be able to do it in BRP.

I have no problem with WFRP, but I've used BRP since the late 80s. The system has become intuitive and is so backstage when we play that it's like it's not even there. If I need to wing it on the fly, it's like muscle memory -- there's no pause. If I had been using WFRP for as long, I think it might be the same way, but the varying die rolls in WFRP 1E have always grated on me. I've owned WFRP for that long, but it never resonated with my groups the way BRP has.

and Fate Points are a brilliant yet simple way to allow generally low-powered characters the miraculous escapes usually only given to legendary heroes. But I think all this can be readily emulated in BRP.

See page 176 for Fate Points. They're there already.

[Barliman]

See page 176 for Fate Points. They're there already.

My copy hasn't arrived yet.

Agreed about BRP "resonating." I sometimes tell gaming friends that I just "grok it."

[Byron Alexander]

If you want to play in the Warhammer world, I'd probably use the Warhammer system if you have access to both. It is written specifically for that world, after all, and as such captures its essence very well.

If you were deciding between which to buy, I'd urge you to buy BRP instead simply because there is so much more that you can do with it whereas with WFRP you can play in the Warhammer world and that's pretty much it.

If you are planning to run a gritty fantasy world of your own design, I would use BRP and not Warhammer since it is, imo, better to try and build a world from the ground up - picking and choosing what aspects it should have - than to take the Warhammer world and panel-beat it into a different shape. Then again, if you are looking at making a world that is the Warhammer world with the serial numbers filed off Warhammer might be better.

[Al.]

Agreed.

WHFRP versions 1 and 2 certainly have their foibles/vices but ........

Unless one has a light touch converting game worlds can lead to an enormous amount of work which ought (in MMOO) to be spent writing scenarios and running/playing.

Al

[Hervé]

Both systems have advantages and drawbacks.

The main flaws of BRP are (for me) the lack of direct relationship between characteristics and skills, which are somewhat two different game mechanics (even if some versions of BRP are using stat based bonuses for skills). There is nothing in BRP that prevents you to be a master acrobat with a DEX of 7!

I don't like either the way weapon damage is handled in BRP (stuff like 1d8+1+1d4 tends to slow the game down) and I find weapon damage ratings pretty ridiculous (how could one state that an axe, a sword and a mace have different damage ratings?). In WHFRP all weapons do the same damage, although some special weapons, like two handed weapons or flails will have special traits. Strength bonus is fixed in WHFRP, which leads to less dicerolling. I tend to think that weapon damage ratings "kill" a bit roleplaying, as most players will go for the better weapons, forfeiting the ones with lousy stats.

Shields are more useful in WHFRP too, as they make parrying easier (increased parrying chance, free parry). In BRP, there aren't big differences if you're parrying with a shield or a weapon. Everyone that got into a fight (even in a LARP) can tell that a shield improves very much your defence!

There are too many different weapon skills in BRP, meaning you can be a killer when wielding an axe and worth nothing with a sword. Some versions of BRP evn consider each weapon as a different skill, meaning you can have 120% with a broadsword and 15% with a scimitar! Pretty strange to me...

The BRP wound system is not so good either, making you either at full power or dead, whatever how many HPs you have left. WHFRP criticals add some bookeeping but are a lot more fun. Furthermore, tough characters in WHFRP (with high endurance) can soak wounds better than wimps, showing resilience and resistance to pain.

WHFRP Talents make better rounded characters. They show what D20 Feats could have been if handled properly. In BRP, most charcters look a bit the same, at least on paper.

I'm not a huge fan of carreer system presented in WHFRP, finding it a bit too rigid and sometimes stupid or out of place (how can I take this Sailor advancement when we just spent the last three months in the desert?). The carreer system is also not always adapted to a different campaign world than the one presented in the game. On the other hand, BRP doesn't offer much in terms of character advancement.

Anyways, despite some better rules in WHFRP, I still find BRP better, if only for one thing: flexibility. BRP is probably the easiest system to tweak for your own needs. You want to make it heroic? Set HPs to CON+SIZ for PCs and major NPCs. You want Fate points? Use the MP rule from the last BRP. You want more skills? Feel free to add them. You want less skills? throw away the ones you don't like or compress different skills into a single one. And so on...

BRP allows you to tailor your campaign exactly as you see it, without altering game balance or adding complex rules. Everyone can learn to play the game in less than five minutes, even when having no idea of what a RPG is...

This huge flexibility is probably the main reason I'm still using BRP after some thirty years of gaming.

[threedeesix]

I'm sure some of you have played both BRP and Warhammer.

If so, could you give me a comparison of both, and why you prefer one over the other (I assume you prefer BRP???).

Thanks!

Back before I was involved with playtesting Basic Role Playing, we were in the middle of a Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 2nd ed. campaign. When I was notified about being accepted into the playtest my group and I decided to convert the campaign, characters and all, over to BRP so as to kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

We found BRP already so similar to WFRP that it never really felt as if we had changed. Percentile based skills, hit locations, sanity and insanity, a system for learning from books that was almost identical, etc.

We would go back to The Old World again anytime, but would most definitely be staying with BRP. Both systems are great, but we have our favorite.

Rod