"Gwen is honorable"

[Ringan]

Greg wrote a note: “Gwen is honorable & I’ll kill anyone who disagrees.”

I am open to this interpretation, but the case is not immediately clear to me.  Can someone argue this based on the game rules?  I am looking at 5.2 since the "Great Hunt" preview doesn't substantively speak to honor.

In 5.2, the dishonorable acts list includes "Breaking an oath" (-3, marriage?) and  "treachery against a member of your family" (-5, infidelity?)  Even if her infidelity is of lesser magnitude than what these acts refer to, it seems relevant.  Are there some affirmative actions she takes that nullify this? 

[Morien]

I thought that was a 'plain-speak interpretation' of Lancelot's challenge to any who would accuse the Queen.

Edit: Actually, the 'burnt' there hints that this is the judicial duel following Patrise's poisoning, and it is Sir Bors who is speaking:
"Right so came in Sir Bors de Ganis, and said: That as for Queen Guenever she is in the right, and that will I make good with my hands that she is not culpable of this treason that is put upon her. "

However, I don't have the Penguin edition book so I am unable to match the language exactly. Maybe David L. will shed more light on this.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Morien

[sirlarkins]

Your first instinct was correct, @Morien. Here's the relevant passage (Lancelot speaking):

Quote

"And where it please you to say that I have holden my lady your queen years and winters, unto that I shall ever make a large answer, and prove it upon any knight that beareth the life, except your person and Sir Gawain, that my lady, Queen Guenever, is a true lady unto your person as any is living unto her lord, and that will I make good with my hands. Howbeit it hath liked her good grace to have me in charity, and to cherish me more than any other knight; and unto my power I again have deserved her love, for offtimes, my lord, ye have consented that she should be burnt and destroyed, in your heat, and then it fortuned me to do battle for her, and or I departed from her adversary they confessed their untruth, and she full worshipfully excused."

I'll be writing more about Glory and Honor in a forthcoming Development Blog, but one of the changes in 6th edition is the concept of public vs private Honor: dishonorable acts committed in secret do not lower your Honor Passion until they are revealed, at which point you lose however many negative points you've accrued up til then. (You still have to make Honor rolls against your actual value, though—"It is impossible for a person to hide from themselves" is how it's put in the rules.) There are also rules for defending your own Honor, or the Honor of a loved one or liege.

This is one of the reasons I led with an article focusing on the deep history of the game's development. With 6th edition, I feel like Greg had finally arrived at an iteration of the mechanics that he'd been moving towards since the beginning.

Now, as for Lancelot lying to his king, that could potentially be a 3-point Honor loss, though again it would be a private matter for the time-being.

(BTW, I also think it's interesting that this is the only time Greg paraphrased someone in first person in his marginal notes.)
 

 

[Ringan]

On 9/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, sirlarkins said:

(BTW, I also think it's interesting that this is the only time Greg paraphrased someone in first person in his marginal notes.)

Thanks very much for the clarifications, gents! The first person was what tripped me up--I read this as Greg's personal voice, not a knight's voice, and was wondering about his conviction 😄  Excited to see more about public & private honor...

[Darius West]

The answer is simple.  Lancelot is French.  Adultery is considered an honorable pastime in France.😜