Summon Spells in Call of Cthulhu 7e

[Keeper Bolog]

Hello!

Inevitably one of my investigators has learned the spell Summon/Bind dimensional shambler. I have some questions regarding this:

• By knowing the Summon/Bind spell I presume you also know how to dismiss the thing, correct?
  Spoiler

  Just like the dismiss Byakhee "spell" in the Doors to Darkness "Ties That Bind" adventure.

   

• Does the Investigator that does the summoning lose sanity after he summons and sees the Dimensional Shambler/Byakhee/other monster? Or is it already accounted for in the SAN loss for the spell? Up until now I made only the NPCs and other investigators roll sanity for seeing the horrible thing that was summoned, and the summoner lost only the spell cost in sanity points. What is the 'correct' way?

Thanks for the help!

 

 

[KarlF]

If I read the rules correctly - assuming the investigator successfully binds the creature it will depart after completing its task (KR p263):
 

Quote

Bound, the thing must obey one order by the caster, even to attacking its own kind, after which it is freed and returns to whence it came

If the creature is not bound - it has been summoned by someone else - then the investigator could try to bind it as per the description on p264 of the Keeper Rulebook and the. order it to leave.

re losing Sanity for seeing what has been summoned (KR p263):

Quote

The thing appearing may also require a Sanity loss to see it

Yes they should IMHO but the rulebook makes it optional. To me the sanity cost for casting is just for using magic which - as per usual - the human mind is not equipped to cope with. Otherwise the summoner can call forth some pretty powerful creatures (e.g. Dark Young) for a minor San loss

[Grimmshade]

I agree that the summoner should also take Sanity loss for seeing the creature summoned.

[EricW]

I think be merciless. Nobody should use magic like that - san loss every step of the process, horrible nightmares, risk of attracting the attention of beings from beyond or other wizards who want to "help", distant discordant piping music at night, mythos skill gain, paranoia about other party members, the world looks strange, everything seems hollow and insubstantial, like if you look at it the wrong way you would see something very different to everyday perception, other party members wondering if their "friend" has gotten a bit close to their enemies.

And the knowledge, horrible knowledge, of what shamblers actually do to people - a fate worse than death.

And the realisation - there is no such thing as a locked door, in a universe where things can pass between dimensions as easily as a human crosses a road. Is that a shambler hiding in the corner, in a wardrobe, or under the bed? But there might be a solution, a dimly remembered reference on page 547 of the Necronomicon, of a vile blood ritual which can create a talisman which offers some protection against the "visitors". All the player needs to decide is who to sacrifice. 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by EricW

[KarlF]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

I think be merciless. Nobody should use magic like that - san loss every step of the process, horrible nightmares, risk of attracting the attention of beings from beyond or other wizards who want to "help", distant discordant piping music at night, mythos skill gain, paranoia about other party members, the world looks strange, everything seems hollow and insubstantial, like if you look at it the wrong way you would see something very different to everyday perception, other party members wondering if their "friend" has gotten a bit close to their enemies.

And the knowledge, horrible knowledge, of what shamblers actually do to people - a fate worse than death.

And the realisation - there is no such thing as a locked door, in a universe where things can pass between dimensions as easily as a human crosses a road. Is that a shambler hiding in the corner, in a wardrobe, or under the bed? But there might be a solution, a dimly remembered reference on page 547 of the Necronomicon, of a vile blood ritual which can create a talisman which offers some protection against the "visitors". All the player needs to decide is who to sacrifice. 

 

What he said.
@EricW - very dark, well summed up

[Nozbat]

5 minutes ago, KarlF said:

What he said.
@EricW - very dark, well summed up

Absolutely agree with @EricW.. Investigators should loose SAN at every opportunity when casting Mythos spells.. at least in my game. The Mythos should only be used when absolutely everything else has been tried and the inherent risks for users should be obvious and drastic. What SAN represents is the human mind trying to understand and categorise the incomprehensible. The inability to do that, as in the real world, causes a dissociative effect which in game mechanics is SAN loss (providing they comprehend the enormity of events through an INT roll).

It does depend on how you want to run your campaign though. If you want to give Investigators some form of advantage and it suits the narrative, let them bind and dismiss Mythos creatures without (or minimal) SAN loss. I think what is important is the terror and horror of it all to creative a narrative for maximum fun (or terror)

[EricW]

14 minutes ago, Nozbat said:

Absolutely agree with @EricW.. Investigators should loose SAN at every opportunity when casting Mythos spells.. at least in my game. The Mythos should only be used when absolutely everything else has been tried and the inherent risks for users should be obvious and drastic. What SAN represents is the human mind trying to understand and categorise the incomprehensible. The inability to do that, as in the real world, causes a dissociative effect which in game mechanics is SAN loss (providing they comprehend the enormity of events through an INT roll).

It does depend on how you want to run your campaign though. If you want to give Investigators some form of advantage and it suits the narrative, let them bind and dismiss Mythos creatures without (or minimal) SAN loss. I think what is important is the terror and horror of it all to creative a narrative for maximum fun (or terror)

There's definitely a case for benign defensive use of mythos magic, like the Arkham professors who used magic gleaned from their texts to dispel The Dunwich Horror. 

But someone who reaches out to the mythos, who initiatives the contact, it should always be a two way street ;-).

"... happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain, and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes. ..." - The Necronomicon (The Festival by H P Lovecraft)