Why M-Space over other games?

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, ThornPlutonius said:

Traveller 2300 and 2300AD are not actually Traveller. 

Well Traveller 2300 was, by name Traveller, it just wasn't Traveller in the traditional sense; which is precisely why they renamed it. 

Now Mongose  2300AD is Traveller (Mongoose Traveller) mechanically, but with a differnt setting and technology, and probably more what people expectred back when we saw Traveller 2300.

 

[Atgxtg]

37 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Non sequitur: This entire thread is dangerous... I've just dumped $240 into four of the Mongoose volumes

LOL! (literally, someone else in the house asked me what I was laughing about). Sorry, my bad.

37 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Character generation looks somewhat confusing (in comparison to the tables in original Traveller with the career specific expansion volumes/MegaTraveller).

It is a bit confusing but once you figure it out, it is okay, as it is the same process for all careers. Oh, and since I've got you spending money, might I suggest you take a peek at Spica Publishing's career books? They add more careers, and some alternate tables and rules for chargen.

37 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

My apologies for the Traveller focus in an M-Space thread: I'm at least familiar with T1-T4, and Mongoose fits the earlier ones in that series better. Wonder how badly I'd have to stretch things to recreate the type-SN Elusive Unicorn 🥴

Well, since the OP was wondering the merits of M-Space over Traveller it probably is on topic to note what can be done with Traveller for comparison. IMO, M-SPACE's advantages are that a it has BRP type skills, and combat, and a GM can draw from various BRP-related products  for their campaign. Traveller doesn't have a half dozen or so different magic systems that can be used, if desired; or both a fixed and variable armor system to choose from; or BRP mecha to draw from to add mecha stats. M_SPACE's biggest advantage, IMO, is that every BRP related product is at least mostly compatible with it. Now admitted, Traveller has grown somewhat over the past decade or so, and has a lot of options now too, but M-SPACE still as more options and flexibility. I mean just consider chargen for a character who doesn't fit one of the available careers. In M_SPACE you just got to convice the GM what skills would be available to a given Profession, but in Traveller you have to come up with a new chargen career sheet with multiple tables and mustering out benefits. 

 

[Baron Wulfraed]

22 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

It is a bit confusing but once you figure it out, it is okay, as it is the same process for all careers. Oh, and since I've got you spending money, might I suggest you take a peek at Spica Publishing's career books? They add more careers, and some alternate tables and rules for chargen.

It may just be the way the book is laid out (the quick glance I took in the PDF makes me think they spent more time on background art and then tried to fit the text around the art, then in straight-forward text presentation -- just an impression, I could be wrong; awaiting bound paper copies). I note they did not include even a half-size blank character sheet in the core book -- another packet I'll have to buy (I own a 13" wide photo printer, and could print tabloid sized character sheets if I had a PDF of one).

22 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Well, since the OP was wondering the merits of M-Space over Traveller it probably is on topic to note what can be done with Traveller for comparison.

<SNIP>

Traveller has grown somewhat over the past decade or so, and has a lot of options now too, but M-SPACE still as more options and flexibility.

More than the old basic six career paths 🥴 Though succeeding in getting through a full 20 years career still means one starts playing with characters that would be taken out of play in many other game systems for old age 😲; so in that I suspect M-Space will win. (I did note this version of Traveller did list some interstellar drives that function other than Jump -- at >TL15, of course [of course, a non-3rd Imperium setting wouldn't need to be tied to the old "TL15 <> Imperium max"]... So Star Trek "warp" is available now*)

 

 

 

 

* side track -- back in my FurryMUCK era most of the creators of "starships" (basically a MUCK "room" that could be contained in, and moved between, other rooms) followed ST "warp" as the explanation for how the ships moved. Someone had set up a sort of situation with a "region of space" that was surrounded by a warp-blocking field -- we were considering if my Jump-based scout might be able to penetrate where they couldn't. They managed to work around the field before my next on-line session time.

[clarence]

I’ve played quite some Traveller over the years - mainly the original version from 1977 - and it’s no secret that it inspired M-SPACE in many ways. But there were also things I never quite liked, things that I wanted to improve in my d100 take on sci-fi.

Starship Design. The rules in Traveller always felt like they required a degree in engineering. The modular approach in M-SPACE is more like playing with LEGO blocks. It’s easier to understand, faster and much more fun. You can make 10 ships in the time it takes to create a single ship in Traveller.

Starship Combat. Starship combat comes in many flavours and in various degrees of complexity. My design goal with M-SPACE was to give it about the same complexity as regular combatt, basing it on the well-regarded rules in Mythras. In Classic Traveller, regular combat is not very good, but starship combat is even clunkier.

Careers. I’m sure this has been updated in newer versions of Traveller, but the focus on military and trade never clicked for me. With a background in Call of Cthulhu and investigative games, I want my players to be journalists, archivists, lawyers, gamblers, burglars and so on. Unfortunately, much of the early material for Traveller was developed to cater for the militant/trading viewpoint. 

Aliens. The official aliens in Traveller never really worked for me. And I still remember the disappointment of creating my own species with the help of Classic Traveller. They were completely devoid of inspiration, wonder and life. Later, with GURPS Space v3, I was initially charmed by the attention to detail and realism - but soon got bogged down by the lengthy process. From these two extremes, I aimed for a middle road in M-SPACE. Quick enough to make the creative process enjoyable and detailed enough to inspire both the GM and players to actually be able to visualise the alien.

[PoppySeed45]

9 minutes ago, clarence said:

I’ve played quite some Traveller over the years - mainly the original version from 1977 - and it’s no secret that it inspired M-SPACE in many ways. But there were also things I never quite liked, things that I wanted to improve in my d100 take on sci-fi.

Starship Design. The rules in Traveller always felt like they required a degree in engineering. The modular approach in M-SPACE is more like playing with LEGO blocks. It’s easier to understand, faster and much more fun. You can make 10 ships in the time it takes to create a single ship in Traveller.

Starship Combat. Starship combat comes in many flavours and in various degrees of complexity. My design goal with M-SPACE was to give it about the same complexity as regular combatt, basing it on the well-regarded rules in Mythras. In Classic Traveller, regular combat is not very good, but starship combat is even clunkier.

Careers. I’m sure this has been updated in newer versions of Traveller, but the focus on military and trade never clicked for me. With a background in Call of Cthulhu and investigative games, I want my players to be journalists, archivists, lawyers, gamblers, burglars and so on. Unfortunately, much of the early material for Traveller was developed to cater for the militant/trading viewpoint. 

Aliens. The official aliens in Traveller never really worked for me. And I still remember the disappointment of creating my own species with the help of Classic Traveller. They were completely devoid of inspiration, wonder and life. Later, with GURPS Space v3, I was initially charmed by the attention to detail and realism - but soon got bogged down by the lengthy process. From these two extremes, I aimed for a middle road in M-SPACE. Quick enough to make the creative process enjoyable and detailed enough to inspire both the GM and players to actually be able to visualise the alien.

From the man himself! Largely agree now that I've taken the plunge, especially on the careers (Mongoose Traveller is better, but in M-Space, it's a hundred times easier to come up with a new career if needed, since it's really only about skill choices; Traveller in most incarnations is harder thanks to the career system, and even the point-buy optional rules depend on the career system as the template).

Edited April 29, 2023 by PoppySeed45

[clarence]

1 hour ago, PoppySeed45 said:

From the man himself! Largely agree now that I've taken the plunge, especially on the careers (Mongoose Traveller is better, but in M-Space, it's a hundred times easier to come up with a new career if needed, since it's really only about skill choices; Traveller in most incarnations is harder thanks to the career system, and even the point-buy optional rules depend on the career system as the template).

Good to hear! And I agree, careers seem more flexible in Mythras/M-SPACE.

[Baron Wulfraed]

4 hours ago, clarence said:

I’ve played quite some Traveller over the years - mainly the original version from 1977 - and it’s no secret that it inspired M-SPACE in many ways. But there were also things I never quite liked, things that I wanted to improve in my d100 take on sci-fi.

Starship Design. The rules in Traveller always felt like they required a degree in engineering. The modular approach in M-SPACE is more like playing with LEGO blocks. It’s easier to understand, faster and much more fun. You can make 10 ships in the time it takes to create a single ship in Traveller.

Part of the charm, to me...

Though I will admit that one of the first major things I did with M$ Multiplan on a TRS-80 Model III/4 [upgraded] was incorporate to create a spreadsheet with all the design tables and look-ups. I could go down the core features (displacement, desired maneuver/jump, etc.) and the spreadsheet kept track of cost and space required.

Granted -- actually laying out a deck plan was not covered...

 

[clarence]

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Part of the charm, to me...

Though I will admit that one of the first major things I did with M$ Multiplan on a TRS-80 Model III/4 [upgraded] was incorporate to create a spreadsheet with all the design tables and look-ups. I could go down the core features (displacement, desired maneuver/jump, etc.) and the spreadsheet kept track of cost and space required.

Granted -- actually laying out a deck plan was not covered...

 

Haha, yes I know a lot of people enjoyed the tech aspects : ) And still do. That's cool. But it just didn't make sense to me, so I tried really hard to make it less complex, without turning it into an abstract ruleset.