Clans of the Pure Horse Tribe

[Squaredeal Sten]

25 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I don't believe the Pure Horse People have such defined geographical boundaries. I am pretty sure the herds move around from year to year based on local conditions. The tribal king, aided by the Yelm Elders, allocate grazing lands to the various clans or bands, based on status, prestige, numbers, magical contests, dance competitions, whatever.

 

 

Thanks! That's  consistent with the more recent stuff printed by Chaosium in Smoking Ruins. Grazer clans moving around, perhaps seasonally, covering half the north-south length of the Grazelands in a year.

Which leads to the question of Vendref clans and croplands, which by their nature won't move around.  It appears that in the 1990s everyone focused on the Grazers and not on the Vendref.

What we need - or at least what I'd like to use -   is a comprehensive resource that defines canon for the Grazelands.  I am writing to the appropriate person here...

But for Friday I'm going to put together what seems cool and exotic to Sartarites,  AND is consistent with that canon as I perceive it hazily and in the distance.

 

 

[Runeblogger]

I guess the Grazelands must be very similar to Prax, in the sense that the different Praxian tribes just go around and stay at the oasis or Zola Fel river valley as long as they can defend themselves from other tribes. And the vendref are like the Oasis Folk, who work for whatever Praxian/Grazelander clan is “in town” this season.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Runeblogger

[Runeblogger]

41 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I don't believe the Pure Horse People have such defined geographical boundaries. I am pretty sure the herds move around from year to year based on local conditions. The tribal king, aided by the Yelm Elders, allocate grazing lands to the various clans or bands, based on status, prestige, numbers, magical contests, dance competitions, whatever.

 

Where does the tribal king live?

[Jeff]

33 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

 

Thanks! That's  consistent with the more recent stuff printed by Chaosium in Smoking Ruins. Grazer clans moving around, perhaps seasonally, covering half the north-south length of the Grazelands in a year.

Which leads to the question of Vendref clans and croplands, which by their nature won't move around.  It appears that in the 1990s everyone focused on the Grazers and not on the Vendref.

What we need - or at least what I'd like to use -   is a comprehensive resource that defines canon for the Grazelands.  I am writing to the appropriate person here...

But for Friday I'm going to put together what seems cool and exotic to Sartarites,  AND is consistent with that canon as I perceive it hazily and in the distance.

 

 

The "vendref" number about 20-22,000 people (depends on what you want to call the townspeople). They are farmers who worship Ernalda, Orlanth Thunderous-Barntar, Maran Gor, Humakt, and the Seven Mothers. They provide fodder and food for the Pure Horse People, make craft goods, and handle trade with outsiders, in exchange for protection, magical blessings, and trade goods from other lands.

[Squaredeal Sten]

1 hour ago, Runeblogger said:

Where does the tribal king live?

My current guess is that the Luminous Stallion King travels around with his entourage in the warm seasons, visiting all PHP clans and all parts of the Grazelands.  In winter he would be found with his own clan.  I'm not sure which that would be in 1625-1630ST.

Which means diplomacy has to be done by appointment. Your Esrolian or Lunar ambassador had better be prepared to spend time in the saddle. And will spend extra weeks trying to catch up with the king.

Among the things I don't have a good handle on. Is whether ambassadors usually see both the king and the FHQ. And on what matters the two must agree.  But it's pretty clear to me that with Argrath courting the FHQ in early 1629. the two must come to agreement on foreign policy.  Otherwise we will see some Grazer mercenaries for the Lunar Empire fighting other Grazers and the FHQ on Argrsth"s side.  That sounds like kinstrife to me.  Same with both sides in tbe Tarsh civil war wanting Grazer cavalry.

[Squaredeal Sten]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

The "vendref" number about 20-22,000 people (depends on what you want to call the townspeople). They are farmers who worship Ernalda, Orlanth Thunderous-Barntar, Maran Gor, Humakt, and the Seven Mothers. They provide fodder and food for the Pure Horse People, make craft goods, and handle trade with outsiders, in exchange for protection, magical blessings, and trade goods from other lands.

I had that.  I'm currently unsure whether I even need vendref clans located for the coming game session, when I expect the party to go to Queen's Postlooking for Lightbringer temples and shrines at which to recharge their Rune magic and Heal wounds and general hit points.   

Korolstead was rougher than they expected. 2d time they visited the Smoing Ruins too.  

It seems to me they will be intercepted by Grazers who will want to be hired as guides...and I'll need to plan fir the contingency that they don't understand the protection racket

But they do have a second mission of feeling out the reaction to a proposal to put a Coymar colony in IF the ruins can be cleared.  A big if.

 

 

 

[AlexS]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

I am pretty sure the herds move around from year to year based on local conditions.

Well, that would make perfect sense if the Grazelands were a steppe region, or a semi-arid chaparral like Prax. But what they actually seem to be (at least according to the maps we have) is a region of clearly-defined valleys with permanent rivers, separated by ranges of hills that can get pretty high. In other words, normal RW adaptive behaviour by a herding people would be more likely to end up with a low-to-mid-altitude version of the Alpine-style seasonal pastoralism practiced in Sartar rather than a slightly more cramped version of the long-range transhumance of the Praxians.

I know the Pure Horse People are not 'normal', but even Pentan Yelmic uber-traditionalists need to face up to geographical and ecological realities. Of course in Glorantha communities with massive magical resources can buck what would be hard ecological constraints in a RW setting (cf the Lunars and their Kalikos Expeditions). The problem for the Yelmic uber-traditionalists is that today the massive magical resources of the Grazelands are held by the Feathered Horse Queen – who is more likely to favour going with the ecological flow than trying to run counter to it.

Those 'defined geographical boundaries' we put in our map of territories are not random: most of them are ridge lines, including the Dragonspine, which is a pretty high ridge by anyone's standards, and having them demarcate one group's semi-nomadic movement area from the next group's is what seemed to us to make the most sense.

In other words, we agree that the clans/divisions and their herds not only move seasonally up and down the hills, but also move around from year to year based on local conditions – we just think that means moving around a specific big valley or chain of small valleys within the Grazelands, rather than across the whole tribal territory of the Pure Horse People.

Even if there are only 12 PHP clans, and not 40 as @alakoring envisaged, if the system requires allocating a new grazing ground from scratch every year to each of these clans, when these grazing grounds are scattered right across the Homeland, the transaction costs could be massive. Such a system also carries a lot of political risk, not to mention ecological risk (i.e. overgrazing due to mismatch between herd size and pasture availability).

That said, it would certainly be very cool to have everyone who matters (i.e. all the high-status men) spend every Sacred Time doing a bunch of dance competitions to see who gets the rich meadows of Maregraze Vale next year and who has to drag their herds off to the rocky dinosaur-infested hills on the border with Old Tarsh. That could yield some fun scenarios mixing magic, physical skill tests and political skulduggery.

The problem with going with this is that you run the risk of permanent low-level conflict, as the sore losers take out their frustration by raiding the lucky winners. Plus you risk upsetting the FHQ by messing with her prerogative of allocating the resources of the Earth in a way that ensures that they remain healthy.

Maybe the process of adapting to life in a very different environment from Pent and Prax, followed by adapting to the FHQ's new regime, has left the Pure Horse People's grazing allocation system in some kind of halfway house, one that nods to Yu-Kargzant tradition while actually fitting the landscape they now inhabit?

They could still do all the ritual competitions etc. to allocate grazing just as they would if they were still living on the Pentan Steppe or the Plains of Prax; this would be a nice way of preserving the Good Ol' Pentan ways that were handed down by whichever descendant of Yelm ran the show before they decided to head South.

It's just that the results would be mostly fixed in advance by the FHQ and her network of Ernalda/Hippoi pasture managers, who would ensure that the winners ended up with pasture areas that actually made sense for their size of herd etc. and kept the clans within more or less defined territories (like a big valley or chain of small valleys).

This would allow GMs to have fun with the great annual pasture-allocation competition without making it such a high-stakes deal that it risked seriously upsetting the political and ecological apple cart (until your campaign needs the stakes to be raised, of course...).

Edited May 10, 2023 by AlexS

[AlexS]

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Which means diplomacy has to be done by appointment. Your Esrolian or Lunar ambassador had better be prepared to spend time in the saddle. And will spend extra weeks trying to catch up with the king.

I like this a lot. Particularly if the PCs spend weeks getting all saddle-sore trying to track down the Luminous Stallion King, put massive effort into greeting him with flowery speeches, give lavish gifts etc. and then end up being told that he'd love to help but he can't because the FHQ has already decided what the policy is going to be.

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I'm currently unsure whether I even need vendref clans located for the coming game session, when I expect the party to go to Queen's Postlooking for Lightbringer temples and shrines at which to recharge their Rune magic and Heal wounds and general hit points.

If you don't want to worry about developing vendref clans you can always send the party to Longhome (Smoking Ruin pp. 110-123), which is a vendref community that just happens not to have to deal routinely with Pure Horse People and has various Rune Priests and God Talkers who can help out with worship, healing etc. Of course, they may end up having to help defend the community against

Spoiler

a bunch of beastmen led by a son of Ironhoof and their Tarshite mercenary sidekicks, and having to seek the aid of a weirdo sorcerer called Urvantan,

but that is up the the GM...

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

It seems to me they will be intercepted by Grazers who will want to be hired as guides...and I'll need to plan fir the contingency that they don't understand the protection racket

Could definitely be fun, particularly if the Grazers are led by a touchy young warrior who feels he has something to prove. 

1 hour ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

feeling out the reaction to a proposal to put a Coymar colony in

"More vendref? Sure, as long as they don't cause trouble and pay their tribute like all the other ground-huggers..."

Edited May 10, 2023 by AlexS