Chase Mechanics and Setting the Scene

[Keeper Bolog]

Hi People,

I'd like to open up a thread discussing the 7e Chase Rules. I recently saw a Reddit post regarding Combat and the Chase rules and sadly the consensus was that the Chase Mechanics are not that good (which I disagree with).

So I would like to check the people's opinion on the official CoC Forums about what you guys think of the Chase Rules, How you run them (Do you show the Chase Tracker to the players? I Personally do not) and maybe also some cool chase scenes you had while playing CoC 😄

Sorry if this was discussed in another post 😞

Regarding my own experience with Chases I did indeed find them hard to set up , but that is mostly because I am a fairly new Keeper. My recent chase in Masks in the NY Chapter went fairly well, even if most of the players stood back and took shots at the running cultists. Looking forward to running more chases and also to hear from your personal experience and advice regarding them. I personally think they are a good mechanic and would like to know how all of you run them.

[Sam E.]

Nothing to contribute yet, but interested in the discussion.  I've read the chase rules, written up a decent summary, and hope to try them out soon.  I'll admit, I'm a bit skeptical, but then again, I've never had a lot of love for chase rules in any system.  Still, I'll run them as written before making any judgments.  🙂

[Grimmshade]

I find the set up a bit too gamey / difficult. I think the system itself is mostly sound and fun. We had a real good experience with it in Two Headed Serpent, but I find myself dreading it a bit in Masks. 

The last one I ran ended up basically just being a combat, because all the players characters just ended up moving a little and shooting. 

It also kind of sucks that whichever pursuers don't roll good enough at the beginning are basically instantly left behind. 

Again, I mostly like them, and I feel they can be fun and exciting, but they can also get a little time consuming and rough if you're not perfectly clear on the rules. I wish they ran a little more like chases in the Blade Runner RPG, which are basically the same but smoother and faster, if a bit more interpretive. 

EDIT: to answer one of the questions asked, I do show the chase tracker to the players, and we place miniatures on it to help visualize and track it. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Grimmshade

[Keeper Bolog]

On 7/27/2023 at 6:34 AM, Grimmshade said:

I find the set up a bit too gamey / difficult. I think the system itself is mostly sound and fun. We had a real good experience with it in Two Headed Serpent, but I find myself dreading it a bit in Masks. 

The last one I ran ended up basically just being a combat, because all the players characters just ended up moving a little and shooting. 

It also kind of sucks that whichever pursuers don't roll good enough at the beginning are basically instantly left behind. 

Again, I mostly like them, and I feel they can be fun and exciting, but they can also get a little time consuming and rough if you're not perfectly clear on the rules. I wish they ran a little more like chases in the Blade Runner RPG, which are basically the same but smoother and faster, if a bit more interpretive. 

EDIT: to answer one of the questions asked, I do show the chase tracker to the players, and we place miniatures on it to help visualize and track it. 

Yea the mechanics are a bit gamey...but overall I am pleased with them.

I also find that the Players either resort to combat during a chase (which isn't really a bad thing...I also mostly play Pulp games so combat isn't as dangerous!, maybe Classic CoC chases would be more tense) OR find themselves "lost" not knowing what to do on their chase turn... Maybe showing them the tracker would help with this but chases being so fluid I find it hard to do because we play physically and bending over the Keeper Screen to modify the chase tracker gets annoying after the first 2-3 changes... But I'll give it a try to show my players the Location Tracker and see how that goes!

[Mike M]

Chases - what would make them easier for players and Keepers? A simple flow diagram, condense/concise process "how to" guide? 

[Keeper Bolog]

2 hours ago, Mike M said:

Chases - what would make them easier for players and Keepers? A simple flow diagram, condense/concise process "how to" guide? 

Always love when Mike or any other CoC designer replies ^^

I have made "cheat-sheets" for the Chase Rules, among other Rules which I both handed to my players and for my own use.

Would you suggest also something else? Also since I have you "on the line" would you say that as designed by you good fellows the chase diagram should be revealed to the players or kept for Keeper eyes only? Also I know that you and Paul Fricker where on a Youtube Video some time ago discussing the Chase Mechanics, but do you have any suggestions to make Chases run and feel "better" ? Thanks for your time!
 

[Grimmshade]

7 hours ago, Mike M said:

Chases - what would make them easier for players and Keepers? A simple flow diagram, condense/concise process "how to" guide? 

A flow chart diagram would be a good start. 

For bigger changes, a simpler set up, and maybe less possible spaces on the chase track. Maybe even everyone basically encountering the same obstacles at the same time, with a number for distance between the pursuer and pursued. This way the line with dots on it would be less important. 

Options for common actions of both parties would make it easier for situations like Keeper Bolog mentions, where players don't know what to do. 

The core is great, it just needs to be streamlined to make it easy to get into, and easier to know what you're options are and how to play them.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Grimmshade

[EldorfDragonsbane]

I found this Youtube Video as a good way to explain how Chases work under 7th ED rules to my players, while he doesnt do it exactly like the rules it is very close and actaully works.

All of the videos in this series for CoC are excellent resources on how to play the game.

[Agentorange]

i was looking at the posts without my glasses on and what i thought i saw was " Cheese Mechanics" 😃

[tendentious]

Here are some examples of chases in a game of Masks I ran. Given the nature of the campaign the examples are all chases between the investigators and human or human-like opponents.

Spoiler

Gerald spots a figure fleeing across the darkened parkland towards the nearby road, and charges off in pursuit. Sam and Andre jump through the window and run after him. Sam has a torch and quickly catches Gerald and then leaves him behind. In the dark Gerald fails to spot a low branch, which catches him in the head and knocks him to the ground.

The man they’re pursuing reaches the road running beside the campus. It’s a warm Friday night and the road is relatively busy with pedestrians, cyclists, and the occasional car or tram. The quarry barrels through the pedestrians and sprints across the road with Sam in close pursuit. Andre, further back, tries to use his knowledge of the vicinity to anticipate their route and cut across country.

The figure they’re chasing runs into a crowded cantina and smashes through the crowd, knocking people down, with Sam hot on his tail. They run through the kitchen and down a short corridor to the alley at the back, where Sam attempts to tackle the figure. The man smashes Sam aside, and turns to attack him.

Spoiler

Mike yanks his gun and shots the closest man twice, wounding him badly; Sam drops him with brass knuckles to the jaw. The two remaining killers run down the icy fire escape, with Andre, Mike, and Sam in hot pursuit. Percival pauses to grab a bed-side table before ducking out the window.

The first killer reaches the alley and runs towards the street, being only grazed by a shot fired by Mike.  The icy conditions make pursuit difficult, with more than one person slipping and falling. The second killer also runs down the alley but slips and falls heavily, cracking his head on the cobblestone. Percival hurls the bed-side table from the fire-escape. It arcs out and plummets three stories, landing directly on the prone man’s head.

Sam runs past the twitching body in the alley into the street. He slips as well, but spots the first killer jump into a waiting car. The driver tries to speed off, but the icy roads and his mediocre skill as a driver results in a lot of spinning tyres and fish-tailing. Sam leaps to his feet, runs after the car and manages to jump onto the running board, keeping low and out of sight.

Spoiler

The cultists approach Gerald, Percival and Yalesha, levelling their weapons and demanding they surrender. Yalesha sprints south down Dean Street with two cultists in pursuit. Percival runs after them, with another two cultists pursuing him. Gerald puts his hands up. The remaining cultists grab Gerald and hustle him north on Dean Street.

Andre, Emily, Mike and Theodore run to the corner of Meard and Dean. Gerald seems to be in the most immediate danger, so they charge after the band of cultists heading north. A running melee breaks out, with two men dragging Gerald up the road and the rest leaping to attack the pursuing characters.

Despite tripping on the rough cobblestones, Yalesha manages to stay ahead of her immediate pursuers. Soon she turns down a narrow alley, filled with bins and other obstructions, where her speed and grace gives her the advantage. As she pulls away from the cultists, they turn their attention to Percy.

The other investigators have managed to fell three of the cultists and freed Gerald from the two men dragging him. Up ahead, the headlights of a parked car ignite as the car pulls out into the street. The characters scatter, with Emily running back and diving into a doorway. Gerald, Mike and Theodore run towards the car and around it before it can pick up speed. Andre attempts to throw a cultist onto the ground in front of him, hoping to force the driver to swerve away or risk hitting his ally. The cultist resists the attempt and stands his ground, so Andre also goes for cover. The car accelerates at Andre but misses. It continues south along Dean Street.

The remaining cultists are starting to scatter, running north on Dean and west along Meard. Percival runs into the yard of St Anne’s church, using the stone wall of the yard for cover. Behind him the car pulls up, and the four cultists climb in. The car turns around, accelerates north on Dean and turns east on Old Compton Street. The cultists disappear into the night, leaving the characters bleeding and bruised.

 

[tendentious]

After running a few chases I made two changes to the rules that worked for me.

Firstly, the slowest participant in a chase gets 2 actions instead of one. All other participants also get an extra action. It allows all participants to make at least one move and perform one other action, which was more enjoyable for even the slowest participant. It also meant a chase was less of a forgone conclusion if there was a difference in speed of more than 1 or 2 points.

Secondly, any character that moves more than 1 space cannot use an action to attack until everyone else has had a chance to  move: you can't just run 3 spaces and tackle someone before they get a chance to move. Basically you can move up to someone, they can then act to move away or do something else. After they and everyone else has had a pass in the initiative order you can then use your remaining actions to move and/or attack.