Corrections thread - Pendragon Core Rulebook

[Luca Cherstich]

The new "quick re-arm" advantage of swords & daggers (see red box p.135) should be mentioned on Table 8.1 on p 162, or maybe even in the sword and daggers descriptions (p..160-163 and 164), as it is an important detail to remember.

[Luca Cherstich]

P.182. "Riding to death".

I understand that an overworked horse failing the COS roll will become a Nag.

This means that and overworked horse will get the Nag stats on page. 183. I'm OK with that ....but how can a Size 40 charger shrink into a Size 24 nag? I feel some more details about overworked horses should have been present.

 

Edited June 30 by Luca Cherstich

[Luca Cherstich]

P.187 

"Damaged" (wounded) horse need "care" (= First Aid) which can only be given by those with Horsemanship 15.

What happens to wounded horses not receiving care? Should we count it as a failure or fumble?

And how much is considered "wounded"? Can even a 1 point wound be a cause for a potential penalty to horse survival rolls?

 

EDIT: I got it, Morien's answer (see below) makes sense. Horsemanship "Care" rolls and First AId to horse are two different things.

Edited July 1 by Luca Cherstich

[Uqbarian]

On page 228, last paragraph under 'Maintenance':

'See the Pendragon Gamemater's Handbook ...'

Change to:

'See the Pendragon Gamemaster's Handbook ...'

[Morien]

51 minutes ago, Luca Cherstich said:

P.187 

"Damaged" (wounded) horse need "care" (= First Aid) which can only be given by those with Horsemanship 15.

Horse Care is a Horsemanship roll. First Aid MAY be given. So you don't need to do it, mere Horsemanship roll is enough if you succeed. What the First Aid does is restore some HP here and now, so the horse is better able to function for the rest of the adventure.

51 minutes ago, Luca Cherstich said:

What happens to wounded horses not receiving care? Should we count it as a failure or fumble?

It would be a very stupid knight (and his squire) to neglect a horse like that. Deliberately neglecting the horse would be a Fumble in my book: you are always better off trying, even if you fail.

51 minutes ago, Luca Cherstich said:

And how much is considered "wounded"? Can even a 1 point wound be a cause for a potential penalty to horse survival rolls?

I think by RAW, "has taken damage", so even 1 is enough. Note that the horse needs to have taken damage AND you need to fail in a Horsemanship roll for this penalty to apply. It would be easy to change the threshold to something like 10% of the horse's full HP, and anything less than that (when summed up), is merely a scratch. But by RAW, any damage.

[Luca Cherstich]

p.149, "Mounted Knockdown"

"Damage in excess of double the character's SIZ..."

should be changed into

"Damage greater than twice the character's SIZ..."

This change will make the text more in line with what is said on p.134. The current text  on p. 149 (..."in excess of double"...) may even raise the doubt that the damage needed for knockdown should be Size x 3 (Size + twice the Size), while the right interpretation should be Size x 2 (as it was also in KAP 5).

 

Edited July 1 by Luca Cherstich
I misunderstood the text

[Morien]

"In excess of" and "Greater than" are the same. Both mean: DMG > 2 x SIZ.

Note that there is a difference in Knockdown between 5.x and 6e. Previously, Knockdown was triggered on DMG greater OR EQUAL to SIZ, and DMG = 2 x SIZ was automatic knockdown threshold. Now the DMG > SIZ to trigger the knockdown roll, and DMG > 2 x SIZ to make it automatic. The "or equal" has been removed.

[Luca Cherstich]

two parts on Solo Scenarios are a bit confusing to me.

P.221, the whole "Solo scenario" procedure is included as Step 1 of the Winter Phase procedure, and it is done "in order to get checks" which will be rolled on Step 3 of the Winter Phase.

p.213, the "Solo scenario" procedure (including its own Step 1 and Step 2) seems to have its own "Roll for checks" part (Step 2), which therefore happens before Winter Phase step 3 (when it normally happens). This is not without consequences, as one can roll once and then get the same checks with personal events in Winter Phase step 2, only to roll again the same check in Winter Phase Step 3.....

Furthermore the text on p.213 seems to suggest that it is possible to roll twice for the same checks, which is frankly negated by the normal procedure on p.227, where only 1 roll is allowed.

I feel the confusing part is the existence of an explicit "Step 2" in the Solo Scenario" procedure which should exist only "to get checks", as suggested by p.221.

Edited July 3 by Luca Cherstich
I misunderstood the text

[Morien]

1 hour ago, Luca Cherstich said:

p.213, the "Solo scenario" procedure (including its own Step 1 and Step 2) seems to have its own "Roll for checks" part (Step 2), which therefore happens before Winter Phase step 3 (when it normally happens). This is not without consequences, as one can roll once and then get the same checks with personal events in Winter Phase step 2, only to roll again the same check in Winter Phase Step 3.....

"Roll for checks" is NOT the same as roll for Experience Checks to see if your statistic goes up. It is to GAIN checks in the first place, as explained in Step 2 of Solos, start of the second paragraph: "If you succeed, check the Statistic and move on to the next." Thus, if I am doing a solo that tells me to Roll for Checks in Horsemanship (which I have at 15 from the start since I am not a doofus), and I roll 1-15, I get a check(mark) on Horsemanship (and Glory on a 15, critical). If I then have another solo that tells me to Roll for Checks in Horsemanship, but I already have a check there, I don't have to roll (although I could, since I could always roll a crit), since I can't have two experience checkmarks on the same skill. That is what it is trying to say.

Then in Winter Phase Step 3. Experience Rolls, I will roll my Horsemanship again, and on 16-20 it goes up by one.

These are two different things.

[Luca Cherstich]

P.211, second column, first paragraph.

"...Servants who can be let go on a whim, such as grooms and varlets, are Background Characters, discussed below."

Unfortunately nothing about these servants is discussed below. Possibly to be changed into "discussed in the Noble's Handbook?"

[Luca Cherstich]

p.227, second column, "Step 3. Experience Rolls".

"...but note that Characteristics have limitations to being increased this way. (See"Step 8. Training and Practice" on p.232.)" 

This whole part should be deleted due to two problems.

• It is not relevant to Experience Rolls, as characteristics do not gain experience checks, therefore characteristics cannot be raised through Experience rolls.
• p.232 shows no limit to characteristics (p.233 speaks about not raising them after age 35, while cultural Maximum for each characteristic is not on p. 232 but on p.46, Table 3.3).

An alternative solution is to change "characteristics have limitations to being increased this way" with "characteristics cannot be increased this way".

I would delete the reference to page 232.

Edited July 3 by Luca Cherstich

[Metalzoic]

On 6/26/2024 at 9:39 AM, Luca Cherstich said:

I kind of feel the same, but mostly because Pendragon is for me the best RPG ever done (and this edition is also full of so many excellent things), therefore everything wrong hurts.

I vastly prefered when they used to sell the PDFs first, exploit the customers' finding the corrections, and printing later on. 

Same. One of my favorite RPGs of all time and hands down the best BRP combat system in my opinion (and one of the few Rpgs with simultaneous combat period). Which is also why seeing how poor of shape this one was released in really, really bums me out.

I have 5.2 which is near perfect already anyway. So I'll just wait for an eventual revision of 6 and hope they catch it all and fix it all in a 6.1 and not need 2 revisions like 5 did.

[Luca Cherstich]

P.238, second column, second paragraph.

".... your Dancing Skill of 2 is raised to the minimum default value of APP-5"

This is wrong, as "APP-5" should be substituted by "DEX/2" to be consistent with Table 3.5 on page 51.

[Luca Cherstich]

P.217-218. 

The pilgrimage rules certainly lack some balancing mechanics, as discussed in the link below. Miracles are too powerful and too easy to get, especially for Salisbury knights with too many nearby holy sites.

 

Edited July 5 by Luca Cherstich

[Luca Cherstich]

p.238, second column, lower part.

"Dagger becomes your Brawling Skill" misses an important part.

Most old KAP 5.2 characters have the Dagger skill at low levels (5 or 6), however, according to Pendragon 6 p. 51 (footnote to Table 3.5) Brawling 10 is now required to be a knight.

I feel the line should be changed into something like this:

"Dagger becomes your Brawling Skill. If this value is lower than 10, Brawling will become 10."

Edited July 11 by Luca Cherstich

[Vortimer]

YPWV, but I would disagree with this. Some will then purposely not put points into Brawling, so they would get some additional free points. STR 12 = Brawling 6. That is 4 points and may very well be less if STR is higher. Furthermore, on page 160, it describes Brawling as a broad umbrella that applies to fisticuffs, wrestling, and other weapons, including Improvised ones. To simply declare Dagger becomes the brawling skill weakens the skill itself.

[Morien]

2 hours ago, Hzark10 said:

YPWV, but I would disagree with this. Some will then purposely not put points into Brawling, so they would get some additional free points. STR 12 = Brawling 6. That is 4 points and may very well be less if STR is higher. Furthermore, on page 160, it describes Brawling as a broad umbrella that applies to fisticuffs, wrestling, and other weapons, including Improvised ones. To simply declare Dagger becomes the brawling skill weakens the skill itself.

Luca is talking about the conversion rules from 5.2 to 6th edition. I.e. 5.2 doesn't have a Brawling skill, but does have a Dagger skill, while 6th edition has a Brawling skill that is used also for Dagger.

[vegas]

Minor errors on page 64.

Immediately following the heading "Trait Rolls in Play" appears the phrase "Traits may come into play in three basic ways" and lists them as "Decision rolls, test rolls, and game hint rolls."

First: "Decision" should not be capitalized in the list.

Second: This sentence is contradicted by the margin note that informs that there are five ways Trait rolls are used, adding "influence other characters" and "resolve moral conflicts". It is also contradicted by the sub-headings that follow in the section that includes "Influencing Another Character".

I would say both the leading sentence and the margin note are both wrong: the correct language should be there are four ways Traits are used, one for each of heading in the section. The margin note "resolve moral conflicts" is not obviously different from a "decision roll" and should be deleted (unless something else was intended and a sub-section of text was inadvertently dropped.)

[Luca Cherstich]

p.127, second column, Romantic Knight, Benefits.

This section should include the benefit mentioned on p.89 (left column, first line) where a Lover (= A ROMANTIC KNIGHT) may attempt to invoke Adoration once per day at any time and for any reason.

[SaxBasilisk]

Page 56: "Note the Courtier Knight is not present on this list, as no starting character can achieve the stringent requirements for that Ideal." - These requirements are not specified anywhere, but this seems to be separate from the "Courtier Knight" pregen.

[Luca Cherstich]

P.249-251.

The descriptions of pre-generated characters do not say whether the stats include skill bonuses from family characteristics (p.52) or not.

Are the skill bonuses  from"family characteristics" among the "remaining details" to be specified mentioned on page 42?

[Morien]

19 minutes ago, Luca Cherstich said:

P.249-251.

The descriptions of pre-generated characters do not say whether the stats include skill bonuses from family characteristics (p.52) or not.

Are the skill bonuses  from"family characteristics" among the "remaining details" to be specified mentioned on page 42?

Since the pregen character sheets do not list Family Characteristic, I would assume that is a 'remaining detail'. In any case, it is just 3 skill points, so even if I'd be wrong, I would not be too worried about it.

[Luca Cherstich]

p.249-251.

No pregen displays values in Fashion, Crossbows and Thrown weapon skills, even if they should have a default basic value in those skills.

Only the "Hunter" displays a "bow" skill, even if all the others should also have at least the base value with the Bow.

 

 

Edited August 1 by Luca Cherstich

[Luca Cherstich]

On 8/1/2024 at 12:42 PM, Morien said:

Since the pregen character sheets do not list Family Characteristic, I would assume that is a 'remaining detail'. In any case, it is just 3 skill points, so even if I'd be wrong, I would not be too worried about it.

It is problematic and it should be explicitly said, as knowing the "family characteristic" is good for fluff AND if later they have sons.

I feel they included the "Family characteristics" in the calculations but did not bother to explicitly say it. And even the skill stats....may be wrong.

I take as an example the "Champion" stats on p.249. The sum of Champion's characteristics is 63, which is OK (60 base +3 Con). Since all PCS seem to have a total of 63 in characteristics, this means that the Constructed method was used for all of them.

This means that all the characteristics were not raised in the "Training & Practice" phase, and therefore these can be used to establish the base values. Here is the list.

SKILL	A (Base Value)	B (value)	B-A (ADDED POINTS)
Awareness	5	10	5
Compose	5	5	0
Courtesy	4	7	3
Dancing	7	7	0
Falconry	5	5	0
First Aid	7	7	0
Flirting	4	4	0
Folklore	4	4	0
Gaming	5	7	2
Hunting	5	7	2
Intrigue	4	4	0
Literacy	0	0	0
Orate	4	4	0
Play Instrument	7	7	0
Recognize	5	9	4
Religion	5	5	0
Singing	5	6	1
Stewardship	5	5	0
Battle	5	9	4
Horsemanship	7	15	8
Brawling	6	10	4
Charge	7	15	8
Hafted	7	12	5
Sword	7	15	8
Spear	7	12	5
2h Hafted	7	7	0
TOTAL			59

The list above does not includes some skills which should have been present, but which were not indicated (Fashion, Bow, Crossbow, Thrown Weapon).

Now, after having got the Base Values of skill at 14 years, the character should have certainly added 54 points, divided as follows.

- 9 point from cultural skills

- 10 points from "personal Skill Additions"

- 35 points from 7 years of "training & Practice" (5 pt x 7 years)

In total: 54 points.

However, in the above-shown skill values (if my calculations are not wrong) the character got 59 points, not 54, which means that:

- The skill calculations are wrong by at least 5 points or maybe only 2 points (IF they included the Family Characteristic)...

- a Family Characteristic was maybe used (giving 3 skill points)....it may be nice to know which one.

It should be maybe now better to check ALL the pregens...

 

 

Edited August 7 by Luca Cherstich

[Luca Cherstich]

ADDENDUM on previous post:

Most characters now start with roughly 2000 Glory, which means at least a couple of prestige rewards.

This possibly explain the +2 skill points in the stats of the Champion Knight (see previous post).

I feel that this should be explicitly said and the starting Glory of these pre-made characters should be written.

 

SECOND ADDENDUM.

It looks like the Passions in the Champion Knight's stats have the base values of the Constructed method (p.50-51) but not the 15 further points to be added among these passions.

Edited August 7 by Luca Cherstich