More Guns Stuff!

[Trifletraxor]

Perhaps bringing all three semi-auto pistols (Light, Medium, Heavy) to a ROF/Attacks of 2 makes sense. Mechanisms are similar enough that this makes some sense.

That way everyone will pick the heavy pistol, and discard the lighter ones. ROF 2 may be more realistic, but I think 3, 2 & 1 for light, medium and heavy respectively is better for game reasons.

SGL.

[SDLeary]

That way everyone will pick the heavy pistol, and discard the lighter ones. ROF 2 may be more realistic, but I think 3, 2 & 1 for light, medium and heavy respectively is better for game reasons.

SGL.

I agree. I would hope that the GM would restrict based on genre and storyline, and not simply allow the characters to have whatever they wanted, but we all know how that can go sometimes.

But I can also see that for other types of weapons that have a ROF of two in Semi-Auto. Matching this would not be unreasonable and might quell things later once the game actually hits.

SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

That way everyone will pick the heavy pistol, and discard the lighter ones. ROF 2 may be more realistic, but I think 3, 2 & 1 for light, medium and heavy respectively is better for game reasons.

SGL.

THat would sort of depend on what other factors apply in the setting. For instance in the Western Weapons writeups (that needed to be updated for BRP damage tables), I added in a draw rating and a Concealment rating.

Now both of those numbers could make a smaller, less powerful weapons a bit more appealing than the hand cannons. In most settings, weapons willeither be restrcted by profession (police and soldiers having weapons issued) or if the PCs have some choice, it might be affected by things like trying to carry a weapon without it being noticed.

It's not exactly easy to tote around a .44 magnum in a T-Shirt and shorts without people knowing that "yes it is a gun in your pocket, and no you aren't just happy to see them." Now considering that in the US, its a violation of someone's conceal carry permit if anyone sees the weapon they are carrying, that derringer or light pistol (or a small frame medium pistol), looks more appealing.

And the variable rate does have some data to back it up. You usually can empty a light pistol faster than a heavy one. Just not 3 times faster.

But I suppose a lot of the little tweaks could be something done as an add on supplment. That's the tact I've been taking with the vehicle conversion notes. Not all sports cars are equal, just as not all sniper rifles are equal. So individual models could be an add-on. As long as the numbers match up with what is in the core rules they could be compatible.

[Joseph Paul]

I agree. I would hope that the GM would restrict based on genre and storyline, and not simply allow the characters to have whatever they wanted, but we all know how that can go sometimes.

But I can also see that for other types of weapons that have a ROF of two in Semi-Auto. Matching this would not be unreasonable and might quell things later once the game actually hits.

SDLeary

:eek::eek::eek: Wait a minute! Unless you have a militaristic genre where PCs are issued specific weapons how are you going to plausibly restrict the choices? It seems like a less than ideal way to cope with a set of problematic rules.

[Trifletraxor]

Cleaning up Jasons thread! We all weaned a bit of topic there!

[SDLeary]

:eek::eek::eek: Wait a minute! Unless you have a militaristic genre where PCs are issued specific weapons how are you going to plausibly restrict the choices? It seems like a less than ideal way to cope with a set of problematic rules.

In the US, there are waiting periods to acquire weapons (pistols), making them more difficult to get legally.

Larger weapons are more difficult to conceal. A large revolver or a desert eagle are much harder to conceal than a 9mm, which is harder to conceal than a derringer... and on. This makes them more likely to draw attention. Even if you have a permit for a concealed weapon, you will get at least outed and questioned by the police if the weapon is noticed.

A PC walking down the street in a metro area with something not concealed, say a shotgun, should be stopped by lots of fine men and women in cars with flashing lights, guns pointed in their direction, with orders to halt!

A PC walking down the street in a metro area with a light or medium pistol in a shoulder holster with a windbreaker covering things up will probably not even get a second glance.

I'm not saying the GM should restrict the ownership of weapons to a PC necessarily, but they should put a damper on how they are carried and used, based on the genre and story line.

SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

SD is quite right. There are a lot of factors that play into choice of weapon in real life. Severalof them would be of importance in an RPG.

Drat, now Triffs got me thinking of doing up another table. Maybe with the generic weapon in the top row and a few specific samples below.

[Joseph Paul]

In the US, there are waiting periods to acquire weapons (pistols), making them more difficult to get legally.

Larger weapons are more difficult to conceal. A large revolver or a desert eagle are much harder to conceal than a 9mm, which is harder to conceal than a derringer... and on. This makes them more likely to draw attention. Even if you have a permit for a concealed weapon, you will get at least outed and questioned by the police if the weapon is noticed.

A PC walking down the street in a metro area with something not concealed, say a shotgun, should be stopped by lots of fine men and women in cars with flashing lights, guns pointed in their direction, with orders to halt!

A PC walking down the street in a metro area with a light or medium pistol in a shoulder holster with a windbreaker covering things up will probably not even get a second glance.

I'm not saying the GM should restrict the ownership of weapons to a PC necessarily, but they should put a damper on how they are carried and used, based on the genre and story line.

SDLeary

All fine ideas but they do not address the problems of a set of messed up firearms rules designed for a specific genre. Perhaps I am misunderstanding but your previous post sounded like you wanted to steer players away from certain choices of firearms just because the rules made them inconvenient to a particular genre.

[SDLeary]

All fine ideas but they do not address the problems of a set of messed up firearms rules designed for a specific genre. Perhaps I am misunderstanding but your previous post sounded like you wanted to steer players away from certain choices of firearms just because the rules made them inconvenient to a particular genre.

You asked how I could plausibly restrict players/characters weapon choice. I was simply responding to that.

As to your assertion that the rules as they stand are inconvenient to a particular genre, this is a matter of personal taste. Some will not mind the abstraction, and some will.

SDLeary

[Joseph Paul]

Doh! You are absolutely right about what I asked.

As for the abstraction I think that those that wouldn't mind it also wouldn't mind if the rules more accurately represented any endeavor as long as that accuracy was tranparent to play and not a burden. RQ was pretty good about that.

I am also concerned that the idea of being inconvient to some genres doesn't ring alarm bells for a product that is supposed to be generic enough to support many if not all genres.

[SDLeary]

Doh! You are absolutely right about what I asked.

As for the abstraction I think that those that wouldn't mind it also wouldn't mind if the rules more accurately represented any endeavor as long as that accuracy was tranparent to play and not a burden. RQ was pretty good about that.

I am also concerned that the idea of being inconvient to some genres doesn't ring alarm bells for a product that is supposed to be generic enough to support many if not all genres.

If you run through all the digests, RPGnet, and this forum, you will see that not all thought RQs system was that transparent. Complaints about combats taking ages when both sides are competent, book-keeping for fatigue, double book-keeping for hit locations, movement in strike ranks, etc.

Back in the day, there were debates on how accurate the weapon damages were. Shouldn't a longbow do more, a javelin more or less, should a shortsword or rapier be able to penetrate plate, etc. There were also debates on how the skill category modifiers should be figured. Was it really fair to give PCs a negative Stealth modifier?! I even raised some of these questions myself.

And RQ was tailored to a genre.

Its not surprising to me that the same arguments arise here. I have raised one or two myself about some items on the weapon/armor tables. Its the same system at its core. And the transparency can be greater or less than RQ depending on what you choose for optional/alternate rules, and what you choose for your level of detail in a genre/setting.

SDLeary