Saying hello and a question

[CthulhuCat]

Hello, first time posting and being a gm. Group of friends and I decided we wanted to try out an rpg, went with HeroQuest Glorantha as our first game. So far its been fun!

I've been thinking about ability scope, how to handle certain abilities and when do they become a stretch. Mainly, abilities that are clearly made to augment, not be the main means of dealing with something.

One of the PC's has an "enchant with fire" breakout ability under the fire rune, a warrior ability and is an initiate of Elmal. I'm wondering what the scope of the "enchant with fire" ability should be.

The way the player used the breakout ability represented both enchanting their spear with fire and the ensuing melee with the now enchanted spear, leaving the ability more specific to actually fighting (warrior) completely unused.

How would others handle it? Let it be used as direct attack like the player was already? Encourage the player to use it as an augment of the warrior ability or vice versa? Treat it as a stretch?

[jajagappa]

Keep it from being too broad.  Start with the question: what does it mean to 'enchant with fire'?  That something can be ignited?  That a weapon can become a fiery blade?  That it embeds/endows an enchantment of fire into a specific object?  That metal can be heated to a burning temperature?  Something else?

Try to get it more clearly defined.  It does run the risk of being abused. 

I'm assuming the player has the Fire Rune at 1W and that they have initiated into Elmal through that rune?  If so, then they can use either the Fire rune keyword or the breakout ability as an ability, not just an augment (if either condition is not met, then they can only use the rune and its runic abilities as augments).

As for use, it depends on what the player wishes to accomplish. 

For instance, one of my players has a character Aren who is also an Elmal initiate through the Fire rune.  He currently has one breakout off the Fire rune: Lightning Spear.

In a fight against a troll, he might state that he is using his Lightning Spear ability to drive the troll back, augmented by his Thane/warrior keyword so that he maintains some semblance of tactics in the attack.

Alternately, in another fight against a troll he might determine that he wants his warrior's prowess to be the main ability, augmented by his Lightning Spear to help scare the creature of darkness.

Either could work.  But the Lightning Spear is a fairly clear and confined ability.  It's useful in attacks to create a fiery lightning.  He could direct it against a creature of darkness readily, or against something that would burn (e.g. the old oak) to start a fire.  It could be used in other attacks, but likely wouldn't gain any extra benefit.  Aren also needs his spear with him.  If the Lunars have taken his spear away, and no others are at hand, then he can't use the ability.  If he finds a sharp wooden stake of sufficient length, he might argue that that will serve as the spear, but that may be a stretch.  It would be a stretch too to try to use the Lightning Spear as a 'torch' when going through a wooded forest.  Also, as lightning is not readily controlled, I'd say it couldn't be used to Heat Metal at all.  So it has some reasonable boundaries.

[CthulhuCat]

Thank you! Just the sort of advice I was looking for.

I believe the intended scope of the "enchant with fire" ability was to turn his characters spear point fiery, it in itself doesn't describe an attack or fighting style, just something that could help make an attack more effective.

As a contrast another pc has a "true striking thrust" ability broken out of her truth rune, it could be used to thrust her lance/spear into an opponents chest, into the opponents weapon to parry or maybe a mixture of both but not much more.

How do you handle augments in general? HeroQuest seems intent on curbing repetitive use of them.

Maybe i'm just overthinking things, the rules are so simple it ironically becomes hard to wrap your head around them (at least for me). 

Edited April 1, 2017 by CthulhuCat

[Richard S.]

6 hours ago, CthulhuCat said:

Thank you! Just the sort of advice I was looking for.

I believe the intended scope of the "enchant with fire" ability was to turn his characters spear point fiery, it in itself doesn't describe an attack or fighting style, just something that could help make an attack more effective.

As a contrast another pc has a "true striking thrust" ability broken out of her truth rune, it could be used to thrust her lance/spear into an opponents chest, into the opponents weapon to parry or maybe a mixture of both but not much more.

How do you handle augments in general? HeroQuest seems intent on curbing repetitive use of them.

Maybe i'm just overthinking things, the rules are so simple it ironically becomes hard to wrap your head around them (at least for me). 

I believe players are only allowed to use one augment/contest, at least for non-automatic augments. For your problem, I would say that you should ask your player to use their warrior keyword for combat, augmented by enchant with fire, as enchant with fire doesn't read as a combat-specific ability and could quite possible be used for something like a small light or way to do some impromptu cooking. I personally go with whatever ability seems most specific to the task at hand for my contesting ability, and then augment with something a little broader.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, CthulhuCat said:

I believe the intended scope of the "enchant with fire" ability was to turn his characters spear point fiery

You might simply modify the ability to read "enchant blade with fire".  It will keep the ability focused to that intent.

6 hours ago, CthulhuCat said:

As a contrast another pc has a "true striking thrust" ability broken out of her truth rune, it could be used to thrust her lance/spear into an opponents chest, into the opponents weapon to parry or maybe a mixture of both but not much more.

That seems to have the right level of definition. 

6 hours ago, CthulhuCat said:

How do you handle augments in general? HeroQuest seems intent on curbing repetitive use of them.

I follow a basic formula:  state what you're trying to do, what ability you're using to do it with, and identify an augment for that action.

If the augment doesn't seem relevant, I'll note that.  If the ability seems a stretch, then there may be some penalty for trying with that ability.

With a Simple Contest, you've either succeeded or not.  As the single roll has encapsulated the action, you can't try to 'repeat' - which is very different from more simulationist games.

I find that augments provide some 'color' for the given character, so the vast majority of player ability rolls include augments.

 

[CthulhuCat]

Awesome, thanks both of you, the advice has helped me get a better idea on how to go about things. Looking forward to my next session.  

[soltakss]

As a very general rule,l when playing HeroQuest I try not to limit the players/Heroes. So, if the player can think of a way to use an ability imaginatively then fair enough. 

 

In my games, there is no such thing as abusing an ability. If you have an ability then you can use it, if you use it in interetsing ways then all well and good.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

when playing HeroQuest I try not to limit the players/Heroes. So, if the player can think of a way to use an ability imaginatively then fair enough. 

I heartily agree with this. 

6 hours ago, soltakss said:

there is no such thing as abusing an ability

Well, there can be, though really haven't observed in my games to date.