Rate of Fire, Volley Fire, what is going on here?

[Dalmuti]

Here is the relevant rule from the BRP (I bolded the confusing bit):

Volley Fire

The attacks-per-round (Attk) for missile weapons on

the weapons charts in Chapter Eight: Equipment are

based on the assumption that your character will be

launching attacks at a normal rate. However, at times,

your character will wish to send as many attacks at an

opponent as are possible in the shortest amount of time,

perhaps as suppressing fire or in a desperate attempt at

bypassing a particularly effective defense.

If your character chooses to throw, fire, or launch

weapons as rapidly as possible, use the relevant weapon’s

attacks-per-round entry, with the first attack at

the normal DEX rank and subsequent attacks happening

at 5 DEX rank intervals. If the DEX ranks for any

attacks are below 0, your character loses that attack.

Though your character may have enough DEX ranks to

attack more than the attacks-per-round, that amount is

the limit and all further DEX rank attacks are not used.

For example, if your character with DEX 12 uses volley fire

with throwing rocks (which get 2 attacks-per-round), the first

throw will occur on DEX rank 12, and the second will occur

on DEX rank 7.

There are a few drawbacks to volley fire, however. First

and foremost is that it makes all attacks Difficult.

Second is that it is (potentially) expensive in terms of

ammunition expended. Another negative aspect to volley

fire is that the fatigue cost is doubled for every round

your character uses volley fire.

Ok, so what is it? Do you get the weapons ROF as listed as the number of attacks per round as your normal rate or do you get the listed ROF as the number of attacks as rapidly as possible and at Difficult skill?

One guess was that you normally only get a single attack per round, regardless of ROF, if you want to use a ROF greater than 1 it was difficult. You can also double the ROF with Unaimed Shots at 1/4 skill.

Dalmuti

[Dalmuti]

I haven't gotten any response on this :confused:, how is everyone else playing with ROF and are they using the Volley Fire rule?

Dalmuti

[vagabond]

I don't have the book in front of me, but this is my guess:

The normal ROF is correct. I believe that the first attack occurs at

DEX, the second at the end of the round. Not sure how weapons

with a ROF of 3 or better work, perhaps normal rate is DEX-10. I'd

need the book for that.

Volley fire assumes the same number of shots per round, but has them

occur earlier in the round (DEX, DEX-5, DEX-10, etc. until 0). Each attack is

a Difficult task.

-V

[Dalmuti]

I don't have the book in front of me, but this is my guess:

The normal ROF is correct. I believe that the first attack occurs at

DEX, the second at the end of the round. Not sure how weapons

with a ROF of 3 or better work, perhaps normal rate is DEX-10. I'd

need the book for that.

Volley fire assumes the same number of shots per round, but has them

occur earlier in the round (DEX, DEX-5, DEX-10, etc. until 0). Each attack is

a Difficult task.

-V

I don't have the book in front of me either but I'm pretty sure that this is not the difference. I believe that in the Attacks paragraph in the Combat section it states that if a weapon allows for more than a single attack per round it happens 5 Dex Ranks later. It does not, as far as I remember, differentiate between types of attacks, which is why this rule is confusing. It says in the very first line that the ROF is the weapons normal number of attacks per round, it also say this in the Un-aimed shots spot rule BTW, but then in the very next line states that firing at a weapons ROF is not normal but a "desperate" type of attack and thus Difficult.

Dalmuti

[Arch0n]

This is an area of great confusion to me, as well. I've never been quite able to understand if the default in BRP is one attack, or ROF...

[NickMiddleton]

Volley Fire looks like we (as in the play testers) didn't catch marrying the Elric! volley fire spot rule (written for archaic missile weapons - thrown weapons, bows etc) with applying it in a multi-genre context where it might be applied to self-loading weapons capable of fully automatic fire...

As I said here, I'd house rule Volley Fire so it only applies to pre-firearm missile weapons, and only against large targets (such as groups of combatants etc).

Cheers,

Nick

Edited January 11, 2009 by NickMiddleton

[Dalmuti]

Volley Fire lie we (as in the play testers) didn't catch marrying the Elric! volley fire spot rule (written for arcaic missile weapons - thrown weapons, bows etc) with applying it in a multi-genre context where it might be applied to self-loading eapons capable of fully automatic fire...

As I said here, I'd house rule Volley Fire so it only applies to pre-firearm missile weapons, and only against large targets (such as groups of combatants etc).

Cheers,

Nick

Fair enough, but this is a pretty important rule and there should be some official ruling on it. Right now most of us are guessing, house ruling, or just ignoring new BRP rules that don't make sense and using the rules of whatever other Chaosium title we play most. Plus it's not like this is the only confusing rule in the book (someone read Aura Attacks and tell me definitively how long the effects last, to name one), it's interfering with the fun of the game.

I've been playing with Chaosium's games since the early 80's and have to say that my only real problem with them is the lack of follow-up on rules support. It's been more than a half a year and still no errata or clarifications sheet.

Dalmuti

[vagabond]

Looks like a typo in the rule. The example given states that the ROF

for a rock is 2 SR, however, it is only 1 SR normally. So, I suspect

that the Volley Fire Rule should allow double the ROF.

I like the Elric!/SB5 rule best. Volley Fire Rule allows spears and axe

to be thrown at double the rate, and arrows, rocks, etc. (crossbows

are not in the YK universe) at triple the rate. However, it can only

be sustained for CON rounds, and then normal rate for CON/2

rounds before continuing the volley rate. Also, attacks are at 1/3

normal chance during Volley Fire.

-V

[Jason D]

I'm in the middle of some stuff, but here's a quick clarification (hopefully not muddling things even more).

The volley fire rules apply specifically to thrown/self-propelled weapons. These are almost always utilized at the rate of 1 attack per combat round, with the RoF used for volley fire. The Difficult modifier applies here.

The vagueness with ROF rules and how they are applied is more-or-less deliberate, or it's more a case of "I know how I like to use them, but some folks might want to do them the other way."

My preferred method is as follows: a firearm/energy weapon can be used up to its RoF in a combat round, with each attack staged at the DEX, DEX-5, DEX-10, etc. rank. If you lack the DEX to fully exploit the RoF of the weapon you're using, then you might reconsider your weapon of choice.

Some folks like to play Call of Cthulhu style, where all shots go off at the Investigator's DEX value. I am not one of those folks. I (hopefully) let the rules be vague enough to allow for both approaches.

The damage values for the generic firearms were deliberately selected to balance against the RoF.

A problem I later realized with the playtest (and, had I the time, would have addressed) was that many of the playtesters were BRP veterans, and as such often ignored the rules as written with an attitude of "yeah, I already know how that works" which unfortunately caused some oversight, particularly when changes were made. I'm just as guilty of it as a writer, as I've been using BRP games for something like 25 years and occasionally didn't explain them clearly enough to a newcomer.

As for the lack of follow-up, I can't really call myself an official voice. I'm just a freelancer at this point, and am sort of waiting for some stuff to be straightened out before I'm even a Chaosium freelancer again.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Jason Durall

[Al.]

A problem I later realized with the playtest (and, had I the time, would have addressed) was that many of the playtesters were BRP veterans, and as such often ignored the rules as written with an attitude of "yeah, I already know how that works" which unfortunately caused some oversight, particularly when changes were made.

Guilty, oh so very guilty. Most of the changes have only been made clear to me by queries about them on these here pages.

Even worse I almost subconciously houserule the new rules in ma heid when I do see that they are different.

Al

[The Last Conformist]

*applies belladonna for puppy-eyes effect

Is anyone collating Jason's clarification into an FAQ?

[Trifletraxor]

*applies belladonna for puppy-eyes effect

Is anyone collating Jason's clarification into an FAQ?

Added to the errata in the wiki. :thumb:

:beetle: