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Sir Mad Munkee

Family history from 480?

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G'day! Prepping to run the GPC from 480, and I've been mulling over changes needed to the family history in the KAP 5.2 rulebook. Some are obvious (PK birth year) and some, less so...

My main question really is: does the Book of Sires family history (for bog standard Salisbury knights) start at 480? If not, has anyone already solved these problems before? ;)

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Book of Sires has your back on this. It is scalable to whatever starting year up to 510, as long as you are in Logres. It explicitly supports starting years 480 (Book of Uther) and 485 (GPC).

If you are using Book of Sires, I very much would recommend putting aside a session to run it more or less as a prequel for the players, even before they make their actual PKs. This helps to ground them in the history of their homeland(s). Note that it is quite easy to have families starting from all over, and ending up in the same place (Salisbury) for the campaign start, which gives it a lot more flexibility compared to the KAP 5.2.

That being said, if you don't have Book of Sires, you can make do with KAP 5.2 for a Salisbury campaign. The main events are still there, and it is easy enough to push the births of PK and the Father back by 5 years. No biggie.

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Heh. I had 2,866 posts on the old Nocturnal Media Forum. I have some catching up to do! :P

I like talking about KAP and being helpful, so yeah, I pretty much stick my nose into whatever thread is open, if I think I can contribute something useful. :)

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So, after a bit of a browse of Sires, things look thusly, for starting in 480:

408: Grandfather is born.

429: Grandfather has his 21st birthday at the end of the year and is knighted.

430: Grandfather marries and starts gaining yearly events. Starts with (1d20 x 100) + 1,000 Glory.

433: Father is born.

439: Events begin. Add 9d20 Glory for 9 years of grandfather's actions.

454: Father has his 21st birthday at the end of the year and is knighted. Inherits 1/10th of grandfather's + 1,000 Glory.

455: Father marries and gains yearly events.

458: The Player-knight is born.

479: The Player-knight has his 21st birthday.

:D

Edited by SirMonkeyboy
Bad mathing

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Of course, with the Book of Sires, instead of simply rolling those 9d20 for glory, you could have the history that your grandfather had.   By your statements, grandfather dies after 9 years of events? If that is because of KAP 5.2, those in Book of Sires are not as brutal, but you have a chance of dying every year. Chances are, you would have more than 9 years.

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24 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Of course, with the Book of Sires, instead of simply rolling those 9d20 for glory, you could have the history that your grandfather had.   By your statements, grandfather dies after 9 years of events? If that is because of KAP 5.2, those in Book of Sires are not as brutal, but you have a chance of dying every year. Chances are, you would have more than 9 years.

No, that 9d20 represents the 9 years from 430 to 438, for which we don't give yearly events. Then the yearly events start and the grandfather survives as long as he survives.

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1 hour ago, SirMonkeyboy said:

439: Events begin. Add 9d20 Glory for 9 years of grandfather's actions.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood the above.  I see now that happened. Thanks.

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Page 7 of Book of Sires says both the grandfather and father gain Glory when they marry.  If you want to be more energetic, you can even roll to find out where she comes from.

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2 hours ago, Hzark10 said:

Page 7 of Book of Sires says both the grandfather and father gain Glory when they marry.  If you want to be more energetic, you can even roll to find out where she comes from.

Ahhhhhh yeah, now I see it. (5d6+10) x 10 for marriage. 👌 Thanks!

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20 minutes ago, SirMonkeyboy said:

Ahhhhhh yeah, now I see it. (5d6+10) x 10 for marriage. 👌 Thanks!

Yep, that is correct. The 1d20 per year is intended to just be the generic event glory for the years we don't follow more closely.

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The Book of Sires also gives some information on the years preceding 439, so you could look at them and add some events from those years to the list, but this requires some work from you as a GM. ;)

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55 minutes ago, Cornelius said:

The Book of Sires also gives some information on the years preceding 439, so you could look at them and add some events from those years to the list, but this requires some work from you as a GM. ;)

I've got Family History tables from 367-410. Maybe one day they can wind up in something. 

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2 hours ago, Cornelius said:

The Book of Sires also gives some information on the years preceding 439, so you could look at them and add some events from those years to the list, but this requires some work from you as a GM. ;)

Well, considering we’re starting tomorrow night, and the family history dice orgy is usually a once in a campaign thing, I’m not sure I’ll get to that. 😆

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13 hours ago, SirMonkeyboy said:

Well, considering we’re starting tomorrow night, and the family history dice orgy is usually a once in a campaign thing, I’m not sure I’ll get to that. 😆

So True. You could do this after rolling the dice and use it to explain where the glory comes from. 

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19 hours ago, SirMonkeyboy said:

Well, considering we’re starting tomorrow night, and the family history dice orgy is usually a once in a campaign thing, I’m not sure I’ll get to that. 😆

There are always backup characters, and the possibility that a PK could die without an heir to carry on the family name. So it could come up again. 

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Wow. Ran the full S. Logres family history from 439 last night. With 4 players it took a LONG time. Whew. And one poor guy's grandad died gloriously in the Battle of River Parrett, in 440, so a fair bit of thumb twiddling for him. But we also ended up with a grandfather/father Loyalist/Rebel family split, a serious war hero, and a Brittany exile who heroically returned with Aurelius Ambrosius, so pretty cool in the end. :)

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2 hours ago, SirMonkeyboy said:

Wow. Ran the full S. Logres family history from 439 last night. With 4 players it took a LONG time. Whew. And one poor guy's grandad died gloriously in the Battle of River Parrett, in 440, so a fair bit of thumb twiddling for him. But we also ended up with a grandfather/father Loyalist/Rebel family split, a serious war hero, and a Brittany exile who heroically returned with Aurelius Ambrosius, so pretty cool in the end. :)

That River Parrett death is exactly why there is the Get Out Of Death -option. Alternatively, I would have allowed the player to start rerolling from 439 again, just so he doesn't get so bored.

Out of curiosity, what were the Glory totals the Grandfathers and Fathers ended up with?

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And, just out of curiosity as well, were the players (and you) enjoy the detailed descriptions of their background?

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On 3/3/2019 at 5:54 PM, Morien said:

Out of curiosity, what were the Glory totals the Grandfathers and Fathers ended up with?

The early death was grandfather 6,299 (married very well & died early, but gloriously), and the father was 2,270 (disappeared in 457, he'll be back). Oddly enough that was also the highest for a grandfather in the whole run, despite dying in 439 at Carlion (was mistaken about it being Parrett).

On 3/3/2019 at 7:44 PM, Hzark10 said:

And, just out of curiosity as well, were the players (and you) enjoy the detailed descriptions of their background?

I definitely enjoyed it. With the players it was mixed. 2 of 4 loved it and really got into it, the other 2 seemed bored on & off. People are just different.

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Do you feel you, as a game-master, have a better handle on the PK's backgrounds, family, and passions?  Just curious.

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Definitely. I've always disliked that first adventure feeling of "Boom! Here you suddenly are in the game world, with no history or context." Compared to that, after just chargen I've now got lots of hooked in details in my campaign:

  • The possible return of the PK's father who disappeared in 457.
  • Old knights greeting the PKs with remarks like, "ah yes, you're Jareth's boy! Pity we lost him at Maisbeli."
  • We got two very high Passions - Hate (Cambrian tribesmen) and Hate (Cumbrian tribesmen) - so I'm looking forward to the first freakouts over the Welsh and Picts. Nice to see, instead of everyone having Hate (Saxons) only, and "the bastards supported that traitor Vortigern at Carlion!" makes a better explanation than "doesn't everyone hate Saxons?"
  • One PK was exiled to Brittany, his mother's homeland (I was rolling locations on Table 1.2, if they decided it was a love marriage), and took on a great deal of the culture in his ideas, even requesting ermine in his coat of arms, as it's the Brittany coat.
  • One player rolled the ancient bronze sword on the Luck table, and immediately slotted it into the history of who his grandfather had been fighting, and even added it to his heraldry (along with an embattled per fess division, representing the stunning amount of garrison duty dad did).
  • We had a rare, lettered grandfather who gave Constans a book (rolled "did something notable" at the coronation in 442 and chose the Read skill), took it very personally when the boy was murdered, and became a Dissident as soon as he could.

And much more. The whole thing added a lot of connections and richness. 👌

Actually, that reminds me of a question: what do you do with Passions like Hate (Vortigern)? I just included it as colour, but he's dead and crispy, so there's not much to pass down to the PK...

Edited by Sir Mad Munkee

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Ah, but his son will turn up in a few years....

You could naturally let it die by lowering it one a year, make it non-inheritable as the object is long gone, transfer it to another person, or transform it into a directed trait: suspicious of the high king, or leave it as is.  "Don't get grandpa started on Vortigern. We'll be here all night listening to it." Perhaps trait divided by 5, rounded up, for value.

I did not purposely seek an answer to that question, but I did ask it. And I forgot about following up on it later.

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