Increasing Allegiance - Question

[Byron Alexander]

I'm looking at pages 316-317 of the core-book, for reference.

Under the section 'Increasing Allegiance' it says that if the character acts in a manner suitable to that allegiance during an adventure, they roll an experience check as they would any skill and if successful gain 1D6 allegiance points.

Under the section 'Creating Allegiances', though, it says that you should create a list of specific actions that gain 1-3 allegiance points.

Doesn't this mean that characters are potentially rewarded twice for fulfilling their allegiance? Is it an either/or situation, or does the 'Increasing Allegiance' rule only apply if they have continually been an examplar of that allegiance for that adventure? What do you say, oh oracles of BRP?

[Charles Green]

The way I ran Allegiance in Stormbringer was to give out small bonuses to Allegiance scores right when they happened, and call for an experience check against Allegiance at the end of an adventure when skill checks are made.

So, players do get two methods for increasing Allegiance, but they typically didn't get them both at the same time.

[pulpcitizen]

Incorporating the option of allegiance into the work I am writing I have adopted the approach that Charles Green takes.

That said I will be incorporating 'higher power'-specific allegiance reward tables, with a further optional rule that standard rewards are reduced by 1 point at 75% or more and 2 points at 90% or more, meaning that acting in an aligned manner will still potentially generate allegiance rating increase (end of adventure allegiance rolls), but that there is diminishing returns for smaller acts at higher levels of allegiance (in other words generally only for the big actions favoured by that higher power).

[Byron Alexander]

Thanks for the response guys. I can now continue safely in the knowledge that you use both.

That said I will be incorporating 'higher power'-specific allegiance reward tables, with a further optional rule that standard rewards are reduced by 1 point at 75% or more and 2 points at 90% or more, meaning that acting in an aligned manner will still potentially generate allegiance rating increase (end of adventure allegiance rolls), but that there is diminishing returns for smaller acts at higher levels of allegiance (in other words generally only for the big actions favoured by that higher power).

I like this, I like it a lot. I think it makes Apotheosis just that bit more difficult, which is at it should be. I won't use anything like it in my monograph (and certainly wouldn't without your permission!), since I'm going for more plug-and-play into any world than a specific world so I don't think introducing rules like that would be appropriate... but I will almost certainly use it as a house rule for personal games.

[pulpcitizen]

Thanks for the response guys. I can now continue safely in the knowledge that you use both.

I like this, I like it a lot. I think it makes Apotheosis just that bit more difficult, which is at it should be. I won't use anything like it in my monograph (and certainly wouldn't without your permission!), since I'm going for more plug-and-play into any world than a specific world so I don't think introducing rules like that would be appropriate... but I will almost certainly use it as a house rule for personal games.

No worries, use it as you will.

[frogspawner]

Doesn't this mean that characters are potentially rewarded twice for fulfilling their allegiance? Is it an either/or situation, or does the 'Increasing Allegiance' rule only apply if they have continually been an examplar of that allegiance for that adventure? What do you say, oh oracles of BRP?

I suspect it's a glitch, and only one should apply. Also, it seems to me that giving lots of little rewards during the game would interrupt play too much, so I'd recommend just using the after-adventure method.

What I do for this is define 10 'favoured' skills/traits (5 of each) for each religion. If a character earns increase-rolls in any 5 of those (I treat traits like skills), then they get an increase-roll in their allegiance too.

[Sunwolfe]

What I do for this is define 10 'favoured' skills/traits (5 of each) for each religion. If a character earns increase-rolls in any 5 of those (I treat traits like skills), then they get an increase-roll in their allegiance too.

Hey, Frogspawner...this sounds very interesting. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "skills" and "traits" and how you also treat traits like skills? And, if you wouldn't mind, an example. I just added Allegiance to my game two weeks ago and am still looking for a rhythm on how to employ it; this sounds like the ticket :thumb:.

Cheers,

Sunwolfe

[frogspawner]

Hey, Frogspawner...this sounds very interesting. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "skills" and "traits" and how you also treat traits like skills? And, if you wouldn't mind, an example. I just added Allegiance to my game two weeks ago and am still looking for a rhythm on how to employ it; this sounds like the ticket :thumb:.

With pleasure.

"Skills" are normal BRP skills. "Traits" are the optional BRP personality Traits, but expressed like skills: e.g. "Brave 70/30 Cowardly" would be Brave 20% (i.e. 20% above average bravery).

In situations where the player can convince the GM that a character trait applies (e.g. bravely going toe-to-toe with Big Ugly Monster that probably outclasses them), they can roll the Trait like a skill. Success gives them x2 on their next skill-roll in that situation (e.g. weapon attack).

One difference from skills: while a Trait has a tick, you can't use it until after the increase-roll is attempted. So, they can keep on trying to be Brave, or whatever, until they succeed, but only get the benefit from it once. (Another difference: if a character acts seriously against a major trait, say 50%+, the GM can give 'em an "anti-tick" which, unless cancelled by a positive use of the trait, will give them a comulsory decrease roll).

Pretty crude example, but hopefully you can think of better. How about this? Arrelef the Discreet, having seen his large companion McStupid the Brawny swallowed by an annoyed Big Ugly Monster (not even getting a posthumous Bravery tick for it, btw), tries to outrun the thing and invokes his Cowardly 30% trait. If he makes it, a kindly GM might allow him double his CON for CONvCON rolls in the upcoming on-foot chase. If that fails, he could try it again when he tries to hide, and perhaps get x2 on his Hide roll for being too scared even to breathe...

But it's the players job to justify their use, rather like it often is for skills.

[Merak Gren]

With pleasure.

"Skills" are normal BRP skills. "Traits" are the optional BRP personality Traits, but expressed like skills: e.g. "Brave 70/30 Cowardly" would be Brave 20% (i.e. 20% above average bravery).

In situations where the player can convince the GM that a character trait applies (e.g. bravely going toe-to-toe with Big Ugly Monster that probably outclasses them), they can roll the Trait like a skill. Success gives them x2 on their next skill-roll in that situation (e.g. weapon attack).

One difference from skills: while a Trait has a tick, you can't use it until after the increase-roll is attempted. So, they can keep on trying to be Brave, or whatever, until they succeed, but only get the benefit from it once. (Another difference: if a character acts seriously against a major trait, say 50%+, the GM can give 'em an "anti-tick" which, unless cancelled by a positive use of the trait, will give them a comulsory decrease roll).

Pretty crude example, but hopefully you can think of better. How about this? Arrelef the Discreet, having seen his large companion McStupid the Brawny swallowed by an annoyed Big Ugly Monster (not even getting a posthumous Bravery tick for it, btw), tries to outrun the thing and invokes his Cowardly 30% trait. If he makes it, a kindly GM might allow him double his CON for CONvCON rolls in the upcoming on-foot chase. If that fails, he could try it again when he tries to hide, and perhaps get x2 on his Hide roll for being too scared even to breathe...

But it's the players job to justify their use, rather like it often is for skills.

Nice. I may use that in my games if you don't mind.

[frogspawner]

Nice. I may use that in my games if you don't mind.

Thanks. I don't mind at all - if you think it might be a useful mechanic, by all means use it. I'd be glad to hear whether it works for you.