davecake

WangBiao, King Violent Wind, is probably the local version of Orlanth.

I would love to know more about the Emerald Fish Lord and his Masked Spirit Dancers.

The Well of Rising Dragons is so very obviously a great scenario basis.

I don't know about the Red Lacquer King, but the Lacquer King was known in Han dynasty folk tales. He was supposed to assist with the application of Lacquer, but cause a rash, and shamans would humiliate him (by rubbing e.g. Rat feces on his statues) to threaten him into stopping.

Jade Warriors - this could be an allusion to all sorts of things, including a dodgy British prog band, Kung Fu panda, a Finnish (!) wuxia film, or a comic.

Yangku - the Blue -faced Beast is perhaps an allusion to Yang Zhi, one of the characters from the Water Margin, possessor of a magic saber and a blue birthmark.

It seems very awkward that Huan Shan Monastery and Mo GUI valley, which on the map are so close that essentially one seems to be in the other, are described so differently- Mo Gui valley is full of Huan To and ghouls, Huan Shan monastery is the center of a huge group of monasteries and temples.

Lakow - a stone egg is highly reminiscent of the egg the Monkey King hatched from in Journey To The West.

I just assumed Kuochiliinglishen was Issaries (or conceivably Etyries),connecting it to Kocholang seems extraordinarily long bow, based only on pronounciation or is there more? New Dragon Inn is a classic 1960s wuxia film from Taiwan, remade twice under variant titles in 1992 and 2011. All are pretty well known.

WA-hua - No-Mind is a concept mostly associated with Zen Buddhism.

Qing yuan has the monastery of Perfect Stillness. This is from Enron of Vormain, so this a non-Kralori practice. Also practiced by Kahar.

What connection is there, if any, between the monkeys of Hou Shi and the baboons of Prax?

The Dancing Spirit Masters would seem to be, effectively, Hsunchen Korgatsu shamanism that isn't restricted to hsunchen?

Does anyone have the chaosium Thieves World, and have any ideas how one might use it in modern Glorantha? Or Carse, for that matter.

Ebe the Wild Man would definitely have been Grandfather Mortal according to the God Learners, and his modern day 'cult' is ancestor worship, just like Daka Fal or the Hsunchen Old Man and Old Woman. But the connection through Aptanace and his sons is significant and useful, I think most professions are hereditary, and the ability to contact ancestors is of significant practical everyday value, as you can contact ancestors who are masters of your profession and able to give useful advice, etc. This applies even to, and is particularly useful for, professions like 'sorcerer' or 'priest'. As far as the idea of Aptanace as ruler, or an Aptanace empire, I don't think the Kralori would think of it quite that way, but I am sure the 700 professions includes professions like king, headman, warlord, etc and of course they are credited with ruling a part of the country. Is Aptanace a sage in the sense it is used in the East Isles, meaning in Revealed Mythology a sage is defined as being a wise mystic? I do not think Aptanace shows any signs of asceticm, or indeed mysticism other than the title Sage. Mysticism and asceticism aren't synonymous, but pretty close - austerities seem pretty basic to eastern mystic practice. (Without gettting too much into Gloranthan equivalents of Buddhist concepts of the middle way, that are still somewhat ascetic compared to typical life).

Metsyla's Seventeen Lessons to Perfection is perhaps the first school of mysticism known to Kralorela, perhaps still the leading non-draconic school? This is the first mention of people being taught mysticism.

I really like description of Kralori religion here, even though it's a kind of rough sketch with many details still not described. Many many minor and specialized spirits, lesser gods, and sorcerous entities. Religion as a more diverse and pragmatic matter than most of Glorantha. The remaining confusion around mysticism in general, and Darudism is particular, is a problem. Is mysticism something that grants very little magic, or are they 'the most powerful of all' who can 'defy any of the gods'? its unclear. And the Godunya cult seems to similar to how it as in RQ3 - a system for shuttling generic magical power around for pragmatic imperial purposes, of no practical use for most of its citizens (or for players).

Anyone know anything more about spearbirds? This is the only reference I am aware of. And what other flying creatures does the Kralorela military use?

Sadly I largely agree, Gianni. Kralorela just isn't quite there - it clearly has huge differences to China, but it's very unclear how those might translate into play. And Darudism really isn't developed enough as it stands.

Kralorelan military - presuming the Kralorelan military is not radically different from the Chinese, i guess the sword the military units wield (that are not even their primary weapon) are cheap single edged sabres, while the swords that 'swordsmen' and more heroic types might use are different, probably straight double edged blades of high quality metal, either like the Goujian Sword if you want a historical reference, or like the Green Destiny Sword from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon if you want a less realistic pop culture one.

and frankly, I find your alternative theory is way too focussed on discarding interesting ideas that don't fit with your theory. The Purification rune as Moon makes the Zistorites less interesting, makes the Machine ruins less interesting, makes God Forgot less interesting, to me. Zistorites were unique and Interesting, and turning them into just another bunch of Lunar sorcerers is not. The same with Purification rune as Chaos too. Let Zistor be Zistor. i'm happy to say that maybe the Wand of Seven Phases is a result of experimentation with the Purification rune. Perhaps it was made of blue moon material, and turned red after Purification. But the interesting questions here are that we essentially know virtually nothing about God Forgot prior to the Second Age. Not that much after Steelfall either to be honest. So i'd rather not simply tie everything we know about God Forgot to Zistorites, but try to illuminate the centuries before and after that period. If we assume that the God forgot area is part of the lands that are recovered from the oceans in the Trembling Shore heroquest (note Vingkot is said to have fought the Worcha Rage at Whitewall, according to the map in Heortling History, implying that Whitewall was basically on the shore at that time), then the details of that give us some of the Godtime history of God Forgot. The description of that heroquest in Arcane Lore calls the movement power of the water Entika, it is the power that gives Worcha its ability to never be still, so it is essentially a name for the tidal power - and it is all concentrated in this region in Worcha, and then lost to the sea powers afterwards, diverted. I think we can assume the Ingareens arrived as passengers on a waertagi dragonship. Perhaps they are stranded after the Waertagi are defeated by the Vingkotlings at Worchas rage, perhaps they arrive later. They are not Waertagi themselves (though they probably continue to deal with the Waertagi through the First age). They could be from New Malkonwal, but most of what we know about them implies they follow the Brithini way pretty closely, so maybe not. I like the idea that they learn more about the Blue Moon powers from the Zaranistangi in the First Age, if only because it explains where the Zaranistangi are between Sechaul and suddenly turning up in Slontos in the Second Age. Tides and Secrets and hiding from their enemies (they made it through the Darkness by hiding), and subtle magic attacks, mostly. I know Joerg says tides don't matter in God Forgot, but I look at the map and think they could matter a lot. i'm sure there are lot of that marshland that is only accessible at low tide. And the accounts of the Machine Wars mention the tides and tidal flats very frequently. I think its very odd to say tidal powers are absent from there when the tides are mentioned so much. it interesting but far away. And used by scary enemies..But they know some secrets. Maybe they, like the dwarves, regard it as proof of the success of some magical project. i don't think they have a Blue Moon faith, i think they approach Blue Moon powers through sorcerous means. i think if they taught it to just anybody, we would have known about it before now. And I see no reason why they would depart from the traditional extreme secrecy associated with Blue Moon. I think they obey Belintar rather than worship. But it does make you wonder. There are a bunch of possible theories. Did Belintar prove he was a Talar? Did he really break the bank, at Casino Town and their Brithini lifestyle demands they honour the debt for some reason? Is the Talar compromised somehow? Was Belintar blue because he was an ancient Zzaburi? Who knows. What we do know is that the Talar of God Forgot has always supported Belintar, and his wizards predicted his appearance (which is quite something, as Belintar appears to have come as a complete surprise to everyone else). Where did I say worship? i do not think the Ingareens are secret theists. They are sorcerers. Thats certainly an interesting connection. I like it! A limited understanding of the tidal powers, but thats sorcerers for ya.

On the subject of Illuminated/mystic God Learners - Malkioneranism may not have been the dominant God Learner belief (that seems to be Makanism, which contended with Malkioneranism0, but it sure sounds suspiciously like a bunch of Illuminates according to MSE pg 42 - strange, new practices, great magic that does bad things, and even name checks Gbaji and the devil. i like the idea that the malkioneranists intellectually understood illumination as contact with the mind of Makan. The irensavilists (and Talorites) agree, but think Makan is the evil demi-urge, so it is a bad idea (well, at least if you approach Makan without Joy in your heart, and a Pure will). The Makanists think you should approach the mind of Makan by the more conventional method of learning a lot of stuff and so gaining intellectual understanding. (the malkioneranists may not have been a very organised school of Illumination - it is quite possible that they do not know how to teach using managable means, but rely on heroquest tactics like heroquesting to the green age, which can Illuminate people but at the likely cost of their sanity).

haha I knew there was at least one more 'backwards name' somewhere - the MSE on page 39, in the Giorgos text, is a rebuttal of the mistaken beliefs of Gerfej snd Drachir, cleaely unrelated to anyone in this discussion thread....

Mine was delivered this afternoon.

There may well be many people who think the Syphon is doing the right thing. And, given the references to it as evil, some who don't. I think if there were krill-filtering merfolk they are gone, but some baleen whales, probably some entire species, are sapient and worship the sea pantheon. (i think one of the many reasons the Ludoch and the Malasp hate one another, is the Ludoch think the sapient cetaceans are sacred, and the Malasp think they are delicious)