Tywyll

37 minutes ago, Psullie said:

spirit combat - possess the Humakti then turn on the other PC's

 

55 minutes ago, g33k said:

non-melee attacks?  Arrows, slings, ranged magic ... ?

While those things can certainly impede the character, they are no more powerful or prevalent than against other characters. Also, this combo doesn't inherently prohibit the Humakt from having protections against those things. Good armor + protection battle magic protects against most of those threats. Or Spirit Screen if you are going up against shaman.

But the majority of encounters will probably be against opponents who are also going to use melee attacks and therefore have no hope against the character. 

5 hours ago, Kloster said:

I don't think so. Dispel Magic description does not tell that MP used to boost a spell have to be counted, only that the points of the spell (the rune point specifically for divine spells) have to be beaten. Sword Trance is a 1 point Rune spell, so a Dispel Magic 2 removes it completely, even if it is extended to 1 season. This is why I answered that it is not a system breaker: Dispel Magic is one of the most common spell I always have seen in all RQ campaign I've seen.

Kloster

 

See, I don't see it that way. I'd argue that Extension X+RP of the spell would be the total. I'll grant you the MP probably wouldn't be considered for dispelling purposes, but I see no reason that the two attached aren't a more powerful effect and therefore need to be dispelled together.

Granted there is nothing in RAW to say one way or the other how to rule on it.

So I read in a forum that Trollpak had a different Previous Experience system from RQ2. I know that the book is going to be reprinted for RQC, but until then, does anyone know how it worked? I would be very interested in hearing about the specifics. 

So, it seems to me that Sword Trance is a broken spell. Nothing prevents a character from dropping 2 POW at creation and then spending all their MP on a Season Long Sword Trance for like +120% (on average). With the cancelling rules, that character is unstoppable in melee. They can't be parried by the majority of the world, their crits and specials are silly high, etc.

Now, you might say, but then they won't have other runespells to fall back on!!! Sure, but that's the problem with any extended spells. Also, as the rules aren't clear (as far as I can tell) on regaining rune points from an extension, arguably they can wait till a minor holy day and get some/all of their RP back. Even if they can't, RQ characters have lived for years without divine spells so it's not a huge deal. They still have their battle magic to fall back on, as well as their allies Divine Magic in a pinch. 

This seems super game-breaking. Is there something in RAW to help mitigate this?

On 1/8/2019 at 1:44 PM, womble said:

They are. See the Cult descriptions in the Rune Cults chapter.

If you want to be 'precise'.

 

True, but lesser (non-seasonal) holy days aren't really mentioned.

On 1/11/2019 at 10:55 PM, womble said:

[shrug] Adventurers are dilettantes who have quit (or been shorn of) their societal obligations, leaving them free to pursue their own goals, which largely involve drinking the proceeds of their last sojourn into The Rubble while sniffing around for some clues as to their next visit. Maybe they have the coin to pay this month's trainer's fees, maybe they don't. Maybe they can be bothered to get out of bed before noon, maybe they can't.

The non-adventuring life is a combination of boring and dangerous hard work, whereas the life of an adventurer has moments of adrenaline-fuelled excitement and is also dangerous, and has boring interstices. But at least there's some excitement. Focus is absolutely not a requirement to become an adventurer. Sure, like any 'trade' someone who's focused will be better at it (and probably survive longer), but it's no requirement.

Not adventurers who survive. Also I suppose it depends on your inspiration. If you view them as all Grey Mouser types, then fine. But even Conan, who falls into the same behaviour you describe above, was also dedicated to self-mastery (if you consider his various skills and capabililties, ignoring his Gary Stuness that is).

On 1/14/2019 at 6:32 AM, womble said:

It only goes as far as the seasonal Holy Days (of all the Gods in the Core book, plus a few). I agree that it's a player-facing aid. I've printed 'em at A3 size to use as calendar/diaries for my game.

Which goes back to my original complaint of only getting Rune Points back by the season. Sigh...

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

RQ2 Defense was a very abstract thing, involving moving about and being hard to hit. RQ3 Dodge removed the abstraction and made it a concrete thing.

Personally, I liked RQ2 Defense and lamented its passing. It makes duels between masters interesting and also causes master swordsmen to cut through lesser fighters very easily, which reflects my personal taste. However, people who like very gritty combat might not find it to their liking.

Just using Dodge = Defense x 2 should work, although that gives Soltak Stormspear a Dodge of 200%!

 

Interesting. Thanks for that. I think if I get a chance to run my theoretical RQ2 game, I will definitely use it.

4 hours ago, Sumath said:

The problem was that beginning characters in RQ2 didn't have a high attack chance to begin with. Combine that with an enemy's Defence and it got even worse, so some fights became lots of flailing about hitting nothing but air. 

That just sounds like the experience would then mimic what you would expect at high levels versus two opponents with high skill (hit/parry, hit/parry/dodge, hit/parry/dodge, etc)

So I began my BRP experience with RQ3 and CoC, so the Defence stat was already gone. Now looking at my old copies of RQ2, I'm curious about it. 

How did it work in play? Why did it go away? If you used a module with that stat, how would you replace it/update it?

On 1/8/2019 at 3:25 AM, MOB said:

There's a Gloranthan calendar in the Gamemaster Screen Pack.

Does it have the lesser holy days of all the gods? If so, seems like something that should be player facing...possibly a PDF on the website?

On 1/7/2019 at 7:40 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yup, a more realistic take on things would be for check in skills to count in some way towards improve attributes that the skill is based on. So someone who does a lot of sword fighting would, over time, naturally become stronger and quicker. I suppose you could have each checked box count as a certain number of hours of training towards a characteristic, but it probably isn't worth the bookkeeping. 

Oh, I don't know. I think if you told a player to keep track of X and it means eventual character improvement and they will do it.

Also, I think an easier way would simply to increase a stat whenever a skill hits 75% or 90%. Easy peasy.

On 1/7/2019 at 7:24 PM, womble said:

Even professional athletes and soldiers-in-training (assisted by modern science for recovery and nutrition) don't, and can't train "strength" for 8 hours a day. They'll do different things over the course of a day's training: agility or endurance (DEX or CON) training, or just skull or skill work, or drill or classroom work. And that sort of training regimen requires a monomanaiacal focus that's pretty much alien to the 'adventurer' mind set (and still doesn't get you 56 hours training a week in one thing. 

I strongly disagree. It takes a crazy focus to become an adventurer rather than opposite.

On 1/7/2019 at 5:16 PM, Julian Lord said:

That is IMO a misapprehension -- IRL, people living in conditions similar to Gloranthan Clan life always consider family not just first, but also different from the Community.

Besides, the basic point of contention persists -- you describe the attitude of a rat-racing workaholic.

Probably a good model for a Mostali daily regimen, certainly not for an Orlanthi, intrinsically viewing such rigidity as being alien to his religion.

I think a workaholic idea would be the thought that their duties require 8 hours each day. Historical evidence pretty much negates the idea that peasants and farmers worked as many hours a day as modern people do. 

Community is typically made up of family, cousins, uncles, nephews, aunts, neices, siblings. 

But again, its also a falacious idea to assume that ancient world cultures performed 'strength training' or 'endurance training'. They just worked hard and har, grueling physical tasks (skills) and became better at them and that increased their attributes. 

But as to what is or isn't typical, we aren't talking about Farmers here, we are talking about special individuals, player characters, not run of the mill individuals. It takes someone pretty dedicated or desperate to do the things that a PC does.

On 1/7/2019 at 5:06 PM, Julian Lord said:

These sorts of things are detailed in long-form cult write-ups, of which no official RQG ones have been released.

That's a pretty important thing to leave off...

On 1/6/2019 at 1:53 PM, Jeff said:

A Gloranthan season is 8 weeks long. It takes two season to train a characteristic. The idea that Gloranthan characters are going to spend 7+ hours a day doing strength training is just not realistic to me and certainly makes no sense as a rules default.

If we want to talk about realism, the idea that characteristics do not improve as a factor of other skill use has always been unrealistic. How did people get stronger in the old days? They did heavy lifting, they learned to fight with weapons (especially heavy ones), they farmed in rough terrain, they were lucky enough to get a high protein diet. I think if we are going to talk realism, we need to accept that 'strength training' is a realtively modern concept. People trained for an activity, and in doing so, became stronger/faster/tougher/etc.

5) Why go back to FREE Int for Sorcery? Why cripple casters based on a single die roll at the beginning of character creation?

2 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

So, where do you fit in your 8 hours family ?

It's always possible of course to create a PC as a workaholic, but it would be unreasonable to view such behaviour as being consequence-free ...

8 hour of Clan duty covers family duty...they are the same.

On 1/6/2019 at 11:36 AM, MOB said:

On the other hand, in RQG the RP/L (and initiate) are getting Rune Points back rather than specific Rune Spells they sacrificed for. Far more flexible and useful and MGF than how it works in RQ 2/3, in my opinion.

And it makes magical/mythic resonant sense to me that a RL/P needs to wait for the right day of their deity to replenish. 

 

So what are those days? I didn't see them in the rulebook. It seems like a pretty important detail to be missing.

On 1/6/2019 at 12:26 AM, Thyrwyn said:

Dodge is not a “trap”, since it’s effect is superior to a Parry. With Parry, damage is always a factor, and you put not only yourself, but your weapon at risk. Parry costs resources. Always 

Dodge, when successful, negates all damage. 

If A successful Dodge always reduced the success level of the attack, then it would be probable for a being with a high Dodge and enough armor or magic to be effectively invulnerable. Dodge would become the must have skill at higher “levels”. 

That didn't seem to be a problem in later editions of d100, so I don't agree that that follows. Dodge is reduced by your encumbrance, making high dodge and high armor difficult. Parry doesn't always cost resources, only if the attack scores more damage than the weapon/shield possess. 

On 1/5/2019 at 11:49 PM, Joerg said:

Would you be happier if a successful dodge against a special attack downgrades the damage of that attack to that of a normal success (and likewise special dodge vs critical attack)?

Taking a hit is going to hurt. Succcessfully parrying an overwhelmingly strong hit may still knock you around the room, even if the damage reduction from the parrying weapon and the body armor reduces that hit to a flesh wound. Successfully dodging it means no damage.

Yes, it's a gamble. Dodging at low skill levels should only be done against attacks with survivable damage. When facing a 4 meter giant with a tree bole as a club, parrying is the worse gamble if both parry and dodge are in the 60% range.

Yeah, I would be happier if the dodge reduced the hit by equal 'success level'. Success would reduce an attack by 1 grade, a special success by 2, a crit by 3. That's how its done in later editions of the system, and is the only way to make Dodge viable (without a mechanic to somehow have Dodge reduce damage inflicted to represent moving partially out of the way).

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

p.415: "If more than one adventure occurs during a season, the gamemaster may allow experience rolls after each adventure."

Okay, glad that's in there.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

Ok, see where you're coming from on that one.  

More realistically now 16 weeks (2 seasons) with a cost of 500L vs. 10 weeks at a cost of 1000L (for STR/DEX) or 2000L (for CON). [Yes it can be compressed but if you've got other community duties, 8 hours a day training is just not realistic.]

Actually not really. 8 hour clan duties, 8 hours training, 8 hours sleeping, rough but doable for a hardened individual.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

Why?  It never did before.  RQ2 was: At the end of the scenario, when the character can take a week to relax and meditate upon his experience, there is a chance he will learn from what happened to him.  Might depend on your definition of scenario, but scenario and session are equivalent in my mind.

You'd not finish something like Snakepipe hollow in a single session, but even if you did, the ingame time would probably cover multiple weeks of delving, retreating to recover, returning, etc. It's not like a 3rd Edition DND one and done kind of scenario. So yeah, I'd expect it to result in multiple experience checks. Not just one for the entire season.

But really, you could look at it as a season spent at war...do you only have one chance at improvement? You don't learn more than that when your life is on the line constantly for weeks? I find that hard to believe.

It also makes the Hero characters in the Glorantha Lore further removed from what players can achieve...no one can rise to the heights of the NPCs by following the rules. That's a problem for me.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

RQG p.185 references "Weekly or other minor holy day" and p.288 notes "The High Holy Day and seasonal holy days are listed." I.e. minor and weekly holy days exist but are not described.

 

Yeah, I reread that last night. But that leaves a big blank. When the heck are these holy days? How often? Are they weekly? What day? Something so tied to a calendar really needs to be more detailed.

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Consider this RQ Classic example: the cost of training determines how long the character must train to gain an increase. Thus, STR, which takes 1000 L to gain a 1 point increase, will take 10 game weeks at 2 hours a day, or 2½ game weeks at 8 hours a day. 

Or review the cost/training time required on the Weapons Training table on p. 26 or the cost for Experience Gained on p.120 - i.e. training takes continuous downtime such as a season or more to achieve in both versions.

 

I'll take 2 1/2 weeks over six months any day (it takes 2 seasons to train an attribute now). 

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Experience rolls happen in whatever downtime you, as the GM, choose.  But characters still have to make a living - not every adventure is going to generate coin to spend.  

 

Not per RAW, unless I've missed something?

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Note p.313: The maximum number of Rune points an adventurer can have with a single cult is equal to their CHA.  Just joining a second cult doubles your possible maximum rune points - and given the POW sacrifice required, that will take some time to fill.  And that doesn't take into account enchantments or other magical artifacts which could easily boost you further.  

Remember that CHA is your effective leadership ability - your ability to be noticed by your god or goddess.  To get beyond normal human limits, you need to heroquest (and hopefully by the time we get to the point of having that many rune points we will have a book on heroquesting available to provide more details).

2

It also means some races are just better at being in the graces of the gods, potentially (windchildren, foxwomen) and some are worse. Though I do see in the bestiary that most playable races have been reduced to 3d6 CHA so things are relatively even. 

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Not sure where you see this.  Critical Dodge vs. Critical attack = Attack is dodged successfully.

Generally parries are better than dodges, but Dodge is still effective.

1

Successful Dodge vs Special Attack=suffer full damage. That's my issue. It's a 'trap' choice. 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

You can still!  That's up to the GM to decide pace of play and what happens.  That's happening in my own RQG game right now - what might be hand-waved by some is a short interlude to follow Queen Leika and Prince Kallyr into battle against the Lunars.  

1

Sure, sure, I get Rule Zero and all that and I'm perfectly happy to switch experience and training back to RQ3 or BGB style rules, but I was looking to see if anyone could sell me on the idea as presented in the new RAW.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

The one adventure per season with downtime for community activity is reflective of the obligations you have there.  RQ2 was much more reflective of the late 70's/early 80's dungeoneering mindset.  

1

Sure. But it also depends on what you end up doing. A long quest to Snake Pipe Hollow in the name of your clan ought to produce more than a single experience check per skill!

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

It really wasn't given the cost to train and the requirement to focus on that training continuously during that time period.  

 

No, that's just wrong. Taking a week to train a skill =/= taking a season. Also, it provided more use for treasure. 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

I can't speak to that as I've not played such.  But Dodge does have effect on equal or lesser successes of attacks in RQG.  I'm not expecting a critical dodge to cause an attacker to fumble or damage their weapon.  

2

It has no effect on a HIGHER success though. That's why its a trap. It's all or nothing. If you decide you are doing that in the intention phase and your opponent rolls a special or crit, you are screwed, even if you have a 95% of dodging. That's been fixed in later iterations of d100 games for years, I don't know why they went back to this version. It makes playing swashbuckly, lightly armored characters a death trap. 

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

There are high holy days each season.  Many cults have weekly holy days.  And a priest at a holy site with a Worship spell can lead a worship service to regain those points anytime.  That's what was hand-waved in the older versions.

Is there a list of the holy days I've missed? Where is that? I thought I read it was seasonal. 

If I'm wrong though, then that's much better!

6 minutes ago, Psullie said:

One of the core thematic changes in RQ:G is the strong focus on community. Adventurers have responsibilities at home that prevent them from frequent trips. Hence the 'one adventure' per year. If you play a more traditional 'errant knight' type of campaign then you should change these limits.

Even that could still include more 'adventures' for the clan...cattle raids, trade missions, protecting from attacks...all important for the clan but still likely to result in experience chances.