Atgxtg

Yup. Oh, that also means that someone could trade off speed for altitude. Basically by taking negative ACC For instance, lets say you are flying around at 5000 feet in your Sopwith Camel at 180 kph/MOV21, Rated Speed 14 when your engine conks out. You could pull up on the stick and turn some of that speed into altitude but since the engine isn't working you'd wouldn't get the speed back until you started to dive. Yeah, you're quite right about that. Not only was the altitude a problem to get to, but by the time something actually managed to reach the 20-25km that the SR-71 was flying at, the Blackbird would have been 20-100km further along. But, I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible and 3D combat gets complicated fast. Maybe something like Altitude Bands could work? The SR-71 could be up at Extremely High (EH) and only other aircraft/weapons rated for EH could reach it? And then all these jet's max speeds are only obtainable at higher altitudes, the ACC only with afterburners, and so on. It's tricky to figure out just where to draw the line for game rules; what to include and what to leave out.

Good points. Plus it would make sense for those flying CAP to be higher up. That would mean that someone in a dive could get up to 10 points of ACC from gravity (1G=10ACC) to bounce someone below. Hmm, they would also be able to exceed Rated Speed a little when diving.

Possibly, not so sure in a RPG context how often that would come up, except with missiles. But it would be easy to add and something based on the Flight Levels used in real aviation, where 1 level = 100 ft might work out well with Rated Speed and Acceleration. Range would be another one I could add. Again, possibly. I think for most purposes ACC would be close enough, since I used the thrust to weight ratio for ACC. Maybe pilots could trade off some ACC for Altitude Levels (or vice versa, come to think of it). Good question. I don't think there is any official correlation listed, so I used regression and curve fitting and would up with: Rated Speed = 1.39*(MOV^0.44). or approximately: MOV Rated Speed 0 0 1 1 2 2 4 3 9 4 15 5 23 6 34 7 47 8 62 9 80 10 100 11 123 12 148 13 176 14 207 15 241 16 278 17 318 18 361 19 407 20 455 21 508 22 563 23 621 24 683 25 748 26 816 27 888 28 964 29 1045 30 1131 31 1222 32 1318 33 1419 34 1527 35 1640 36 1760 37 1887 38 2021 39 2162 41 2311 42 2469 43 2635 44 2811 46 2996 47 3191 48 3397 50 3615 51 3844 52 4086 54 4341 55 4610 57 4893 58 5193 60 It doesn't match up exactly with all vehicles, but it does give a rated speed that is within a point of the official values, which is the closest I've been able to get so far. I'll probably need a more complex equation to get a better fit. But we might not need a better fit if its only off by a point. So my Hindenburg is slightly faster than BRP's but then mine has a top speed of 135 KPH as apposed to the cruising speed of 123 KPH. Does it matter all that much in a chase? Probably not as anything moving at a speed where is matters will be rated on the same scale, and anything close in speed will still be close in speed. BTW, based on the travel speeds listed for vehicles it appears that MOV=KPH*67/60 It's definitely some sort of increasing scale to keep the values low and thus playable. It makes sense too, since in a chase it's more about the relative speed between the vehicles than the absolute. That is a 10 KPH difference in speed matters a lot in a foot chase where the average person runs at 25 KPH than it does in a with supersonic jets with an average speed is 2500 KPH.

I was working on statting up aircraft for BRP and was wonder if anyone else would be interested, and if they though that these stats looked good or not. Stats given are mostly the same as in the BRP rules with the addition of EngSTR. EngSTR is a rating of how powerful the aircraft's engines are on the STR table, and are there for future design purposes and for siutations like one vehicle towing another, tugboats, superheroes holding back jets and so forth. EngSTR for propellor aircraft is a bit suspect, and all values could shift by a point or so as I fine tune this. Anyway, here's the sample, does this look like I'm on the right path? Type Skill Rated Speed Handling ACC MOV Armor SIZ HP EngSTR F-16C Block 50 Pilot 43 10% ±12 2432 71 71 73 F-15C Pilot 47 10% ±13 2965 77 77 79 AV-8B Harrier II Plus Pilot 32 5% ±9 1209 69 69 68 A4D-5 / A-4E Skyhawk) Pilot 32 5% ±5 1209 65 65 57 B-52H Pilot 31 -5% ±3 1173 97 97 83 B-17G Pilot 22 0% ±1 516 79 79 83 Boeing 707-120 Pilot 30 0% ±4 1117 88 88 78 SR-71A Pilot 53 0% ±4 3953 91 91 81 LZ-129 Hindenburg Pilot 13 -5% ±1 151 105 105 83 └-cruise speed 12 134 F-86F-40-NA Sabre Pilot 32 5% ±4 1235 64 64 53 F-86 Sabre Mk.6 Pilot 32 5% ±5 1253 64 64 56 MiG-15bis Pilot 32 5% ±5 1236 70 70 62 SAAB J29F Tunnan Pilot 31 5% ±6 1184 60 60 53 SAAB J35F Draken Pilot 45 5% ±7 2736 70 70 65 SAAB JA37 Viggen Pilot 43 5% ±8 2491 74 74 71 SAAB JAS 39C/D Gripen Pilot 42 10% ±10 2345 67 67 66 Supermarine Walrus I Pilot 16 0% ±1 242 56 56 60 Sopwith F.1 Camel Pilot 14 0% ±1 203 37 37 41 Fokker Dr. I Pilot 14 0% ±1 201 36 36 39 PBY-5A Catalina Pilot 18 0% ±1 352 74 74 74 Boeing 314A Clipper Pilot 19 0% ±1 380 84 84 86 Bell 47G-3B Pilot 14 0% ±1 117 45 45 49 C-130H Hercules Pilot 24 -5% ±1 659 91 91 98 C-5M Galaxy Pilot 28 -5% ±3 956 110 110 94 Airbus A380-800 Pilot 29 -5% ±2 1008 115 115 130 Wallis WA-116 Agile Pilot 14 5% ±1 180 26 26 34 Vickers Wave Pilot 16 0% ±1 246 40 40 42 SeaRey (2006) Pilot 15 0% ±1 217 37 37 36 Bell X-1 Pilot 46 5% ±5 2897 62 62 53 F-104G Pilot 45 5% ±8 2746 68 68 64

Works for me.

I know, RQ2 and BRP do the same. I just mentioned this because the OP was wondering about the value of CHA and how to make it more useful. Or even the average of the two.

That's why I liked how category modifiers added to improvement rolls in RQ3. Having a high CHA/APP not only improved your starting score, but added a few percentiles to your improvement rolls with CHA based skills, leading to slightly faster improvement and slighter higher skills throughout the character's career. . Something like adding 1/5th the base score to improvement rolls in Mythras would make all attributes more useful after chargen.

Yeah, a thing with most of the Star Wars RPGs was that the Dark Side would give you some perk for calling on it. Usually a hefty bonus to what you wanted to do. Not really. I did tempt them, but It was more a case of the players failing to grasp the setting, and creating flawed characters who were destined to fail. One player decided to make a force sensitive pirate, despite being warned about it (being force sensitive makes you more at risk to the dark side, and pirates tend to engage in somewhat suspect behavior). Then the player got all caught up in the tech and hardware. Said group were D&D players and were always intimated by the Empire having them outmanned and outgunned (just like in the movies). Group died by fighting when surrounded (they should have surrendered and escaped later), but said player admitted that the NPC Darksider would have turned him by offering him his own Star Destroyer to command. Second failure was even stranger. We were playing in the Clone Wars and said player wrote up a force sensitive character, and was surprised when Yoda refered to have him trained as a Jedi, for much the same reasons as why Anakin was denied training, plus this guy was 20 years old. Player was told out of character that much like in the films events would happen to would lead to the character being trained down the road. But the player still wanted to bear a grudge against Yoda and the Jedi. Not a good start for a potential Jedi PC. Later of the PC found a lightsaber off of a dead Jedi, got incredible possessive about it despite it not really belonging to him, and then wanted murderous vengeance on the NPC villian who took it from him, despite being warned about how it could lead to the Dark Side, leading to the player becoming even more resentful of Yoda and the Jedi. Basically he was like Anakin on steroids. All very puzzling as everyone at the table, including said player, had seen the prequels. Palpatine was actually using the PC as a pawn to undermine the Jedi. He'd tell the PC how he agreed with his suspicious of the Jedi and that he'd do more if only he had a good right hand man he could trust. One of the other players choked on his soda when I dropped the "If only I had someone I could trust to act as my hand." line. Then Papatine send the PC out on a mission, and if he did good, praise him publialy over the Jedi, and if he did bad, well he had a lightsaber so the Jedi must have failed. The group broke up due to work schedules, but it was a toss up as to who was going to turn him to the Dark Side. Dooku could do it by offering him revenge of the NPC who "stole hs lighsaber" while explaining how the situation was all a misunderstanding and not of this was what he wanted, etc.etc. Palpatine could have done it by humoring the PC and slowly making him into the Emperor's Hand, which was the way things were headed. The PC never admitted to (or even thought) that he had ever done anything wrong and so everything was always someone else's fault and he never addressed any of his shortcomings. Most of the other players thought the player was trying to go dark. Well one of the biggest benefits is Self Control. Darksider's are always ruled by their passions and tend to do things that might not be for the best. Kinda like the kid who eats a big bag of candy in one sitting. He wanted to do it at the time, but he probably regents it later on when he doesn't feel so good. So a lot of the benefit of the light side would be mastery over emotion and impulses. You might even want to consider Ki Skills. That was a thing in the old RQ Land of the Ninja supplement. Basically it represents the perfection of mind and body and turns the critical chance with a specific skill into it's own skill. But then there are force abilties that might boost skills.

Notaccording to the extended contest examples,. Note I'm talking about that as opposed to regular combat. Oh, and if armor applies then you'd would need regular damage or else someone with 6 points of armor can't lose. One of the things I don't like about the extended conflicts is that the damage is 1d6 with no adjustment due to the difference in skill. This makes it impossible for someone who is markedly better than an opponent to defeat someone quickly. Someone with a stat of 11 is going to take on average 3 losses to defeat, no matter how skilled their opponent, or the actual skill rolls. Personally I think it would be better if the damage take was tied more closely to the outcome of the opposing skill rolls. Opposed rolls is s something that games not based on D100 do better. Games like Pendragon, FUDGE, Prince Valiant, D20 3.0+ all do opposed contests better. But not well implemented with the extended conflicts. There no example of modifiers for such things, or what aspect of the contest to apply them to. Do they add to your skill, take away from the opponent's or do they modifier one of your die pools? There is no sort of standardized suggestions. Now I could see some nice options, like maybe armor adds to the die pool, prolonging the conflict, damage die based on skill, but there isn't much there. Would the noise boost the sneak skill, reduce the spot/listen skill of the opponent, or the relevant die pools. Speaking on which should the player get a die pool? I mean once the guard hears something, the contest is sort of over, or at least changes to a different type of contest where the player has to convince the guard that it was a normal noise or just part of the guard's imagination ("Meow?") Would you apply the adjustment to the gambling skill or the conflict/hit point pool? But at what point do you get a bonus or a penalty. And is it automatic (Battleships can capsize and sink). And what about bailing water, or the actions of the other people aboard? Look, I get that you like this approach, and that fine. But if we all agreed on things there would be no reason for you to have written your own game in the first place. That's sort of the point in having other games, we can all pick what rules we prefer. I'd prefer to do things differently that's all. I'm sure there are game mechaics that I'm fond of that others do like,skill category modifiers,for instance. C'est la vie.

No I'm not, I was referring to what the abstraction of Hit Points were in D&D/AD&D. No I haven't, but I have read the rules. Let's keep Revolution D100 out of this as no one has mentioned it yet, but quoting from the M-SPACE rules: "Conflict Pools work like hit points, but for any conflict. They are based on characteristics and used one at a time." So my aversion to them as being hit points reskiined is valid, since that is what they are. You can say that it is modelling something other than old D&D style combat but functionally it works the same. I find it much more limiting that BRP as you lose the options of parry, dodge, etc as everything boils down to attack roll vs AC, and damage off of hit points. Everything just comes down to one ability score. Tactics, actions, none of that matters. Skill only matters for the attack roll. It's less creative that D&D because at least in D&D there were multiple things that added to the attack (STR or DEX bonus, magic weapons, level bonus, spells, situation modifiers, class and racial modifiers), AC (DEX, Armor Worn, class bonus, magic armor, rings, spells situational modifiers, damage (by weapon type augmented by STR magic etc.)or hit points (hit die rolls, level, CON bonus, magic items, spells, previous damage). That's not mentioning the various immunities and special cases that existed in D&D. But M-SPACE Extended Conflicts comes down to one skill for the attack, one d6 for the damage and and one to two attributes for the hit points. No options, no tactics, no defense, just opposed attack roll and 1d6 damage. Does it matter if you got armor in a duel? No. Does it matter if you got any good points that could be important when trying to persuade someone in an argument? No. Does it matter if there is any background noise when you try to sneak past a guard? No. Does it matter if you got one hundred times the chips as your opponent in a poker game, no. Does it matter if you are in a rowboat or USS Iowa when Boating Through a Storm? No. Everything boils down to an opposed skill roll with an attribute as hit points. And attributes are mostly fixed. The actual degree of success doesn't even factor into things, all wins work the same. Yes, some people like this but that doesn't mean every does or that they must. I do not care for it, don't consider it a good feature, and won't recommend it as one. Prince Valiant handled this sort of thing simpler and better. No more questionable than M-SPACE. HW/HQ at least has augments, the ability to determine the amount of ability points wagered on the roll, the ability to handle groups, differences in success levels, advantage reversals and the ability to regain points. I'll take HW/HQ's extended contests over M_SPACE's any day. I think I'd take Prince Valiant's extended contest rules over HW's too, Greg really did a good job with those game mechanics in PV.

Okay, I'm thinking old Stormbringer here where Elan was constantly in flux and there was no apotheosis. So yeah that was my thinking. At least for "aligned" characters such as Jedi. Joe Average probably doesn't have much of an allegiance score. I think the gift works better, especially if it can be done after the dice are rolled. I mean thinkof all the times that someone misses a roll by a point or so. I don't think rerolls have the same appeal, especially for tasks that are difficult to pull off. Why take 5 DSP for a reroll when your chance of success is only 10%. And why take 5 DSPs for a reroll when your chance of success is 9-% when you can usually just wait until next round? But when someone rolls and 11 and just misses by 1%, that's temping. Double so if they can bump a success to a special, or a special to a crtical. Besides, rerolls are just luck, and " In my experience there's no such thing as luck" Yes, and Yes. For example, Let's say there was some sort of Combat Sense power that helped provide situational awareness during a conflict, and that it cost 2 POW to activate. My idea would be that the character could keep the power up indefinitely (at least as long as they remained conscious), but that since they were constantly using POW they wouldn't regain any until they dropped the power - which they could do at will, or would happen automatically when they went to sleep. Now consider the *sigh* that we see most force users do after a fight in Star Wars. That could be them dropping all the force enhancements they had up for the fight. What's fun about this is that is is self regulating and punishes players for being greedy with the Force. Someone wants to run around all day with boosted DEX and STR, sure, but no POW recovery. Oh, run into a foe and need some POW points becuase you had DEX and STR boosted, no problem the Dark Side will give you some POW points absolutely free, and just to show you how nice it is, it will toss in the same number of Dark Side Points at no extra cost. Oh, I might have failed to mention that when I ran Star Wars I was pretty good at temping players with the Dark Side.

Oh, I understand the concept, but it's basically the same as old D&D. Player imagine that their characters are leaping lunging, riposting, and sidestepping but in merchanical terms it comes down to rolling to hit and taking hit point damage. But note of that matters in game terms. It's like how APP tends to be a dump stat. In theory APP matters but there is usually no actual benefits to it as far as the game rules go. To me it doesn't add any layers, in fact it removed them, since everything just gets reduced to a dice poll vs a target number and hit points, and all the rest is just trappings. No it isn't Your still doing fighting, just another way. Conflict is conflict. It's also vitial to story telling and gaming. If your character don't have any sort of conflict the story is boring and people lose interest. For example you could have a situation where someone is trying to win over a person they love, and it still boils down to the same combat model of attack roll, damage roll and hit points. Only in this case it simply reflect the significant other's reluctance. Same with someone trying to find something good to watch on TV, find a service station that is open at 2 AM. It still comes down to the attack roll, damage roll and hit point loss. Yes, which exactly why I'm not fond of dice pools. You lose the coolness of different flavors and options. Now there are ways to add flavors and options but that usually means more variance, especially in the effects, beyond that of simple hit points. The points are abstract and meaningless until they are all gone.

Actually that was usually admitted to being a flaw with the D&D model. The original concept was that all HP loss reflected minor injuries and loss of stamina save for the final wound that drops the character. As a result it shouldn't take longer for those with lots of HP to recover. That was why Arudin had healing splls heal a percentage of total hit points. Yes, I can understand that. Something about who wins the fight as opposed to who needs the most medical attention. It's perfect as far as Hit/point injuries go, but it's not the best model of handling a fight, since most fights don't follow the Monty Python King Arthur vs. the Black Knight model. I've been working on cinematic dueling system where you track who is winning the battle rather than a laundry list of accumulated injuries. Basically rather than tracking hit point loss, it tracks who has the advantage in a fight and by how much. Most fights in fiction tend to work this way-both for dramatic purposes and to show the audience who is winning. By my idea would be rather than having people run out of "hit points" one side would build up an advantage somewhat similar to how Pendragon works reflexive modifiers (+5/-5). My idea is that eventually one party would accumulate enough of an advantage to ensure the outcome of the fight and "win" the conflict. I was thinking that injuries would be a secondary effect of losing an exchange, one of several such as being driven back, disarmed, tripped and so on. I think the idea could work for other types of conflict as well, for instance mass battles where the advantage tracks how the battle i going and casualties would be a side effect of the conflict. You can lose more people and win a battle. In fact I could see the option of deliberately trading off more casualties for a bonus to the die roll. Or taking a wound for the same thing in a duel.

The way it worked in old Strombringer was that you earned Elan points by doing things that please your patron deity, and you could roll against that on % dice to call in some sort of DI, but doing so cost something like half your Elan score. The idea being that while your patron dieity might show up to help you when you ask, you couldn't call them every five minutes. In your campaign you could start this off like SAN (POWx5%) allowed for characters who are strong in the force. You might even allow someone to get some extra points by taking some Dark Side Points at the same time. Maybe even allow them to do so after rolling the dice. That way a PC who fails by say 2% is going to be sorely tempted to take " a piddling 2 DSPs" in order to get their favor from the Dark Side. If you don't want to use Alliengance/Elan you could simply allow the Dark Side to offer characters "free" Fate Points/Power Points whenever they take a Dark Side Points. But then you might want to have the Light Side reward characters who do things in harmoy with the universe with a faster Power Point recovery rate. Oh, and another weird idea is that you could allow someone to keep a power up beyond the normal duration, but while the do so they do not regenerate Power Points. That wouldn't be a big deal for one or two minor powers but could become a problem if someone used a lot of POW points and now has to keep some power up.

Oh definately it is all very subjective. But that helps to explain why I didn't list it as one of the features of M-SPACE, to me it's not. Which is thing thing when explaining a game to someone else, you might not like or want the same things. History generally showed that specific settings sold better than a generic RPG, so Chaosium put BRP aside to focus on specific setting games. Then WotC started shooting D&D in the foot with a machinegun and every other RPG company took notice and putted out some OGL towels to soak up some market share. But yeah, there is little generic SciFi stuff for BRP GMs so M-SPACE could fill that niche.

Yes, but it isn't always abracted to the same extent or the same way. RQ came about in part becuase it's authors thought that D&D was too abstract. D&D pretty much boiled combat down things down to attack, damage, AC, and hit points. RQ added in things like parries, fixed hit points, armor absorbing damage as opposed to redcuing the chances of "hitting" and so on. So it comes down to how much abstraction. I think that using dice pools can lead to too much abstraction and turn everything into a simple number crunch. Yes, expeically as most M-SPACE GMs would be familar with other Mythras/BRP/Lendeng prodcuts and can port stuff over from other games that they like. I didn't say he should abandon M-SPACE or the Myhras system, only that as he already wrote BRP STARSHIPS he might as well release it now that the terms are more agreeable. Either as a one off, as a series of adaptations of the M-SPACE line to BRP, or as a well to make products that work for both systems. But basically since BRP STARHIPS is already fait accompli there is no reason not to release it, and al least get a few buck from Old Man Henerson or whoever else wants to buy it.

If he is using PP in his game. Remeber PPS are an optional rule. That's my point. Lots of ways to handle stuff. For instance the allegiance system from Elric/Stormbinger had an Elan roll that could be used like Divine Intervention and that could work with the Force. But that would also mean that those who call in favors from the Force that way would lose Elan/Allegiance points and thus become more vulnerable to the other side.

Yeah, it depends on what sources the OP wants to use and what take he wants to have on it- after all it is his homebrew, so even if something was positively "X" in Star Wars, it doesn't have to be "X" in his campaign. Hmm, I wonder if we should mention Force Points?

Exactly. Yup. The skill value used to attack with was the hit points used to soak the damage. But it also meant that all abilities were basically the same. Basket-weaving at 25 could beat Sword 17. But it is a very abstract system that just boils everything down into a number crunch with little consideration for tactics or other abilities. Good for a computer, but not so much fun for people. Although at least in HW/HQ you could get augments, switch out abilities and so forth, which brought some of other factors back in. But then in HW/HQ you mostly rolled to see what direction the story went as opposed to just being a win/lose thing.

Oh, I'm familar with it, in fact I commented on how you could probably mix and match up contests by swapping out what values to use. But...you should come up with spaceship design rules that work the same way, and ways to bring in other stats into the fight, such as shields and ship maneuvering instead of just slugging it out with hull/ hit points. Something like someone being able to make a piloting roll to redirect damage from an attack to the ship's agility rating instead of hull.

Any my PCs only had one. The menorable bit about the whole thing was that one PC, with something like an 85% piloting skill didn't make it.

That's not how George envisioned it though. It's not a good-balance-evil thing ala the Eternal Champion series or D&D alignment, but more of an eastern view of being in balance and harmony with the universe or not. So being in balance is the light side. At least that's what George intended.

Well that's one potential sale. If a few more people chime in maybe we can convince clarence to take your money! 🙌 No. What happened was that clarence originally was going to make a BRP supplement but changed to Mythras due to the licensing terms that Chasoium had at the time. I got a PDF of it because I had helped a little on the original rules with some number crunching for the spaceships. So there are only a few of us who have the BRP version. But, now that BRP is OGL, it is much friendly for third party products, pretty much eliminating the reasons why the BRP version never came out, and why clarence switched over to Mythras. I think that as the conditions have changed, and as BRP version already exists, it makes sense to release it, since it would mostly be profit now.

Oh, I asked because in earlier Star Wars RPGs characters who went to the Dark Side were turned over to the GM, who ran them as NPC Villians from then on. ITHat not only kept the "heroic good guys" vibe but also gave players a strong incentive to stay on the light side. It's mostly adapted from D6 and D20 Star Wars, but tweaked a bit to fit BRP and the SAN point scale. Yes. The way I see it anytime some did something dark they would increase their DSP and their Allegiance. Basically the Dark Side wants you to do bad things. It would explain why Sidious had Vader kill off the younglings at the Jedi Temple. Not only would it give Vader a lot of DSPs, making it harder for him to backslide, but it would also give him some allegiance points. Speaking of Allegiance, in Star Wars terms there are only two sides, Light and Dark, with Light being balance and harmony, not three as in the Eternal Champion series.

What are going to be the effects of corruption? Could a player lose a character like in old D6 Star Wars? Or do they play as an evil character? Just how to do the Dark Side rules will depend heavily on that. If a player could lose thier character then you will need to play up the temptation/reward aspect of the dark side and the self control and will to resist. If they just play an evil character, then the corruption thing isn't such a big deal as they player can just continue on with their character. As a thought: You could treat SAN as Willpower and when a characters fails a test they gain Dark Side points rather than reducing SAN. If a character calls on the Dark Side they get a bonus to their PSI/FORCE USE roll based on their total dark side points (say +5% per 10 DSPs or some such) but they also gain more DSP by doing so. Said DSP bonus would also apply as a modifier to relevant Passion rolls. For example,. if someone has 20 DSPs they would shift their Vengeful/Forgiving traits by +10/-10% Characters could get a Willpower roll to try an override their emotions, with the difficulty based on the situation. Forgiving someone who ate the last piece of pizza is easier than forgiving someone who murdered your family. When the DSP total exceeds the character's WILL (i.e. SAN) score they have been seduced by the Dark Side. Character who remain true to the Jedi Code could meditate away DSPs over time (say 1 DSP per Success Level). This would help to explain why Jedi meditate so much.