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I guess you just posted the Declaration of Interdependence!

That would be great if not for all the plain sense contradictions within the RQG RAW itself. By RAW, I don't believe people can even use Fireblade anymore. Apparently, in RQG, fighting with the weapon blows the concentration required to maintain an active spell. Then there are things like opposed rolls, which last I've read here, can officially be resolved, yet. And how about two weapon use? Nobody was able to work that out by just a "plain-sense reading of the RQG RAW"- we had to get clarification from Jason, and then needed to get the clarification clarified. More than once. So plain sense readings of the RAW aren't solving much. At least going back to the older books gives us something to work with.

Sounds good to me. Might as well close one can of worms why we still can. My ignorant bronze age hat says that if the spell basically asks the spirits to find the enemies then the spell isn't an incoming one and doesn't interact with the Countermagic. So much for my ignorant hat. I'll ask my raincoat what it thinks, it's a lot smarter than my hat-it usually knows enough to come in out of the rain. However it isn't as chatty as my hat. In the meantime, checked RQ3, where Detect Enemies specifically is noted as checking for Enemies in sequence, closest first, and specifically notes that "if the spell is still in effect". So it does appear that Steve Perrin did intent for a high power Detect to be able to blow down a bunch of low power Countermagic spells in sequence. That kinda blows the whole idea that is wasn't intended to work that way. Oh wait, the raincoat just called me an idiot (nothing new there) and then said that as Steve Perrin is writing something for RQG couldn't somebody at Chasoium ask him about it? It's even more prosperous that someone can cast a moderately powered Detect Enemies spell and knock down multiple Countermagic spell. I think this is really the only spell in the game that can end up affecting multiple characters, without some sort multispell.

I agree. I think this is a case where we all hate where the rules are logically taking us. Matching it against ALL the coubntermagic at one go would work too. It makes sense, is easy to apply, and gives results that make sense-namely that in most cases the Detect get's blown down, but the caster is aware that it has been blocked, so he knows somebody out there doesn't like him, and has or at least had some Countermagic up. Except there is nothing explicit in the rules that sates that either. Quite the opposite, since nothing else is immune to being knocked down by a Countermagic. There is, Detection Blank, and it doesn't just block the Detect, but "slips under the radar", and it can knock down a Detect. But the rules are clear that Countermagic works. That's a workable house rule, but I just wish we had a solution in the text somewhere. Maybe this was covered in an old Wyrms Footnotes?

Or that you match it against the total points of Countermagic. It's kinda funny how something like this never came up in the last 40 years.

I hope not. I suspect this is just a case of someone finally walking across a landmine that's been around since RQ1. It's a really brutal one, too. Yeah, but with what Mechashef pointed out, namely that the Detect spell would probably have to check friends too, we've got problems. That means that someone could pretty much short out a powerful Detect just by having someone in front with a 1 point Countermagic. Maybe the Detect should go up against the Countermagic spells in order of weakest to strongest, and we could keep a running total of Countermagic? When the total magic points of Countermagic get within one point of the total magic points of Detect, the Detect gets blown down.

Ow! That's nasty. Logical, but nasty. I think the Detect vs. Countermagic thing is actually broken. And I don't mean that in a "I don't like this rule" way, but I think it actually breaks the game.

RQ2 hit points. Hence my view that 4 points of Protection would lead to a sword taking half damage. It needs something. Personally I'm okay if it knocks down one Countermagic, but if a single high point detect spell knocks down all Countermagic spells is a biggie. It just that detection spells are one of the rare cases where a spirit magic spell can affect multiple people with being multispelled. It would have been better if detect spells weren't blocked by countermagic, but the rules seem to be clear on this, unfortunately. On the plus side, only those enemies who are thinking of harming the specific target the caster chooses would be hit, so in a real fight, that would probably limit the spell to a couple of foes, as the other PCs would be drawing some fire (or to be more accurate, ire) as well.

Do we get college credit for this forum?

Yup. I'd like to say that it wouldn't work against detect spells, since they don't target the character with those spells up, but the rules "clearly" state otherwise. Well, possibly. I'd probably assume that detect spells "ping" targets sequentially, closest first, and that the first Countermagic would take down the Detect Life with it. However, there is nothing in the rules to support my assumption.

Yes I do. From my familiarity with RQ2, not RQG. In RQ2 a parring weapon takes all the damage. Thus a weapon that is taking 8 points of damage with 4 points of armor would only take 4 points or damage, or half damage. Sounds like RQG "hit points" work more like RQ3 "armor points", in that they have to be exceeded to be reduced. That does reduce the impact of the rule significantly. Going from 12 to 16 resistance isn't nearly as significant as going from 0 to 4.

I dunno, I think a better solution would probably be to port over and adapt the riposte rules from old Strombringer, have them apply to everybody, then adjust the modifier based on the weapon used. That is riposting with a rapier might be at -10%, while riposting with a broadsword might be at -20%, and riposting with a great axe -30%.

I wouldn't say it was redoing everything from the ground up. I do think DD's version has some far reaching consequences.

Yes, but the way it is worded is interesting, since, technically, it is the caster who decides it if works, as opposed to the prescribed limits of later version, or the target. So, if I were to cast Countermagic on you, and someone attacked you with magic, I'd be the one to decide if Countermagic worked or not. I wonder how that would work if I got knocked unconscious? And what if I decided to let something through that I suspected would knock down the Countermagic anyway? And with that wording I could cast Countermagic on an enemy to allow our magic to work against him, but prevent his own or his allies magic for working on him. No wonder they changed it.

Does it prevent the target from casting the fireblade, dispel the fireblade, or just prevent it from working when striking the countermagiced character? Okay, I looked it up, and while it certainly works against Fireblade the whole "any spell the caster doesn't want to work" is very interesting, as it could be used selectively back then.

POW isn't much of a limit, since it is a summoning cvost, not a binding (permant) cost. But, overall, I think it depends on which version of SB you are running. With early versions the perks of demon weapon and armor are so great that sorcerers become virtually unbeatable if their opponents don't have magic. A weapon that does +5D6 isn't all that expensive considering the benefits, and any amount of demon armor can make a character nearly invincible. And, with the way the game was written, there was really no reason not to max out the STR of a demon weapon if you could. With later editions, especially after Elric! the escalation isn't as bad. Something like a +5D6 weapon (3D10 or so in Elric!) is much more costly, and comes at the expense of things such as STR.

Actually it has been said in RQ3 that Countermagic blocks detection. It also states in RQ2 under Detection Blank that: but unlike Countermagic it does not let the person doing the detection know that his spell has been blocked Which by logical extension means that Countermagic blocked Detection spells in RQ2, as otherwise the line would make no sense whatsoever.

But that by itself would be a game changer. If we were both "average" swordsmen, who did 1D8+1+1D4 (average damage = 8 points) damage, and I could put 4 points of protection on my sword, then, on average, your weapon would take twice as much damage as mine and break sooner.

We would have if we had 35 years of playing this version of RuneQuest. The problem is that most people were playing with RQ3 rules, or in some cases RQ2 rules, both of which made Rune Magic much rarer,or as you pointed out, people are going to be casting Shield (and other Rune Magic) regularly in RQ3. So Spirirt Magic compatiblity and interaction becomes more of a thing.

That's what I thought, too. Then I read the description of Detection Blank in RQ2 and it states that: A specialized version of Countermagic, designed to block detection spells. May screen either the caster or another person from detection. It stops only detection spells, but unlike Countermagic it does not let the person doing the detection know that his spell has been blocked. Otherwise it functions like Countermagic. So, not only does Countermagic stop detect spells, but Detection Blank is a form of Countermagic.

Assuming it was allowed (and I really doubt it) then I would just assume that it would give swords and shields AP in addition to their HP. And that would be a big thing. IMO Protection on parrying weapons is a big game changer, as it could make it virtually impossible for most characters to get past someone's parry, and fairly quickly at that. Plus it opens the door for double dipping, as a character could have Protection on his shield and on himself, and they really shouldn't stack that way. If I were to allow Protection on a weapon or shield, then I would say that it would have to be incompatible with Protection on the character. So if you protected your sword, you couldn't have it on your body. Plus allowing spells to target objects that way opens up a Pandora's box for the other spells. If someone can cast protection of their sword, why can't they cast bladesharp or fireblade on themselves or, say, sharp fingernails?

Not quite. The caster would know that his detection had been blocked by countermagic, as opposed to not detecting anything. It's like jamming someone's radar. They may not know who did it or where they are, but they know there is an enemy out there somewhere. That was what made Detection Blank useful.

IS that permissible in RQG, and would it work on the sword even if it is? The reason why I ask is that Countermagic was listed as working on self or others, as does Protection. As a sword isn't a "self" or an "other" I don't believe it would be a valid target for either of those two effects/components of the shield spell. Unless the sword held an (allied) spirit, but then, technically, the target of the spell would be the spirit.

Unless you do something like 3-Weapon SR as the modifier for the subsequent attacks. That way the first strike advantage remains just that.

I'd suggest either not using melee rounds, but simply track impulses like Ringworld. It would be much fairer. A big guy with a long weapon would get first strike, but once the battle is joined it would simply turn into speed/DEX. In fact, without melee rounds, you could factor in for SIZ and weapon speed (as opposed to reach) and get something workable, fairly quickly, that wouldn't have as much of an impact. But I'm not sure if it would be worth the bookkeeping.