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I was thinking of pulp as in the style of 1920s-30s fiction. Since you listed the Shadow in your concepts SotC came to mind, since it is designed around that style era. Another nice thing is that SotC is derrived from FATE, which has a much gritter damage track. If you want gritty with superpowers, then games like CORPS come to mind. Even BRP might work if you keep the power levels down. Another option would be the approach for horror adventures. That is add/pervert a non-super RPG to handle powers. Personally, I like cinema style, or "pulp style". For something like the Shadow or Green Hornet (the latter I wrote up stats for in SotC), SotC would be my first choice. The system allows you to pull off the sort of things that happen in the pulps. For instance, the "Master of Disguise" stunt lets a PC drop out for awhile, and then take over an nameless NPC, unmask and reveal himself. That's perfect for the Shadow.

Well since this is BRP is would have to be Glorantha-free. "The Great Cthulhu campaign"? (probably much like the old Phil & Dixie "Escape from Cthulhu" RPG-well LARP) :eek: "The Great Caesar Campaign" (they are putting out a Roman book. The title is a natural for the sequel, "The Great Ceasar's Ghost Campaign." )

Depdns on just how active said gods are. But generally, yeah, most people will believe in Zeus when he shows up, tosses some lightning bolts, grants a DI or two, and provides cult magic. But you can get something fairly historical in such context. Most ancient cultures were polytheistic. So it wasn't that they didn't believe other gods existed. It the monotheistic religions that have the difficulty, and even that can be worked around by claims that other gods are in fact, lesser entities or demons, masquerading as the divine.

A couple of things. First off Sprit of the Century is a pulp style game. One thing nice about it is that the game works with pulp logic, rather than the typical RPG dice and points style. Several other super RPGs do try to take "comic logi" into account. While some things do vary by writer as does all forms of cinematic stroytelling, there are a few consistiences-such as: -Blunt weapons knock out/beat up/ sharp weapons kill -Powerful hits send people flying -It doesn't matter how far you fell as long as someone catches you before you reach the ground. -If you are tougher than what you land on, fall hurt the ground, not you. -If you are strong enough to lift something, you can do so, despite things like leverage, ground pressure, or structural strength. -If you build it, it will be just the thing you need to defeat the next villain you come across. -Everybody dies sometime, but supers, and their friends, family and enemies do not stay dead, unless their name is Ben Parker, Jor-El or Wayne (Parental figures don't do well, must be something about the target audience). Secondly, a few RPGs have gone the real world physics route. Wildcards for instance. One example was a superstong hero jumping out in front of a speeding truck as per the comics. Rather than stopping the truck, the hero got sent flying, and learned a lesson about momentum and leverage. In the comics a superhero might be able to lift a battleship, but in the real world he would probably break the ship, or drive the character into the ground like a tent peg. Likewise, catching a falling person a few feet before the hit the ground just means that they fall into the hero and take damage rather than falling onto concrete.

Ow!::shocked: It's the Avalon Hill situation all over again!:eek: On the Plus side, Hasbro is so big, that they are compartmentalized enough so that WotC doesn't have access to all that money.

Interesting. Your figures seem to show not only how important it is to provide the game in the local language (no surprise), but just how useful a literary tie in is.

That all supprts my point, though. BRP stuff was always a bit better, as there was more control over the line. With 3rd party publishers that won't happen. Consider that third party use of RPG stuff did exist long before OGL, and successfully. A few companies did producce BRP stuff in the past, and Chasoium did pull off Thieves World. If OGL leads to a flood (more like a leak with BRP) of bad products that eventually trickles off, what good does that do anyone? OGL actually hurts companies too. Having your own RPG means having your own fanbase. Writing stuff for a differnt RPG means competing with every other company writing for that game. I wonder just how many Gladiator prestige class write up are floating around for D&D now? Oh, BTW, I think that mRQ is "D&Dified" and have played the new edtion of D&D and am not surprised by what I see at all. Do I think OGL will lead to a flood of products? No. I suspect it will lead to a half dozen third party vendors, and a few one off publishers. With maybe one or two decent products and the rest crap. At best it might just double the amount of BRP products. Especially since, right now, if you're any good, why go OGL when you could probably get hired by Chaosium? From the posts I've read, they are looking for people to write stuff to support the game.

Well, since the copywrite laws specifically note that you cannot copywrite a rules system, OGL is completely unnecessary. But, yeah, big companies can throw money around and destroy small compnies with legal action. It a lot like being drafted into a poker game, where he other guy can make your bets for you. Problem is, OGL is no protection. If WotC, or better yet Hasbro, wanted to, they could sue someone over a d20 product. While they probably wouldn't win the case, the cost in legal fees would be enough to shut down most RPG companies. In not a case of wring and wrong, its a case of how much can you afford to be right?

But OGL isn't floating the boat either. WotC isn't making money from OGL stuff. The adnatage of OGL is that it gives WotC market control over the system, and allows them to sell the core rule books to 85% of the RPG market.

More like, how much detail can they go into and cover the requirements for a super RPG. I just do see V&V in it. Don't see any V&V type rules...

No, from what I've read, most of the people seem to be disgusted with the endless number of supplements add ons, and such that expand the game. A lot of groups play at the Gms house so he does have to carry a bookself with him on gaming night.

That is the drawback to pushing out product. One reason why stuff used to tricky out was that the same half dozen people wrote it. The best stuff for RQ2 is all written by the same people. That's why the quality is consistent. Open the floodgates and everything goes down except for quantity. I'd rather buy one book like the Great Pendragon campaign then a dozen half-assed OGL Pendragon books. Same with BRP.

In the mid 90s that started to change. AD&D 2nd edition was losing market share, and companies liek White Wolf were gaining ground. The RPG shops in my area went from being 75% D&D due to volume (there was more D&D stuff than non) to the reverse. Once D20 came out, lots of companies jumped on the d20 wagon and dropped thier own lines. Within two years or so D&D return to preeminence. There not. They make far more money from OGL D&D than they do from MRQ. MRQ just gives then another niche to sell too. Currently that niche comprises of a small percentage of RQ fans and a large does of disenchanted D&Ders. But, since Mongoose is doing to MRQ what WotC did with D&D (splitting everything off into a different supplement), I suspect the disenchanted D&Ders will end up as disenchanted MRQers.

No, I don't think there will. That's one reason why I don't like OGL. With the parent company you know that at the least the guys writing the supplement know the rules for the RPG. I've seen some 3rd party stuff written by people who were not familiar with a system, making their supplement less that serviceable.

One big difference is that without OGL, we'd be more likely to see a game system carried in it's entirety by local stores. Allowing those of us living in the non-wrapped world to see what we are buying. If we flip through it and don't buy it, then it doesn't sell. That will affect what my local shop does as far as restocking and future products. Likewise, it something flies off the shelf that company's stuff will be better stocked by the store. For example, one of my local stores doesn';t carry Mongoose OGL prdocts. THe owner says they don't sell anymore. People used to buy them, trying to get some new power or something, only to find out that the rules in the product didn't work out right. Sad shop owner also buys practically nothnig but D&D RPG stuff, since there is so much stuff that he can't keep up with D&D AND keep up wth the other RPGs anymore. Net result. OGL turned his shop from a gaming store to a D&D store. That's bad for people who want to play games other than D&D.

Yeah, I'm with Kloster. I see little V&V in Superworld, but lots of Champions. The whole build your character with points approach, flaws, all point to Chanpions. What V&V stuff is there in the game?

I think your missing some stuff for Marvel and DC. DC did release some adventures, and I own at least 3 supplements. Likewise there were more products for Marvel. Still, I'll concede that Champions out supported the others. It used to be HERO's flagship RPG, and at one time it's only RPG. I think TSR Mavel probably outsold it through. Marvel and DC had an advantage in being able to use their own universes. Since most Super gamers read comics that is a telling edge.

GURPS SUPERS and Heroes Unlimited Both systems badly needed an non-lethal combat option, but didn't get one. Our group got the message when I started wondering why my hero character was toting around an SMG. HU's "one power" rule probably made it the worst supers RPG. THe pwers didn't balance, and as the game was combat driven, and fights ended with someone dead/dying, the result was a very, very bloody RPG. Too bloody for the genre. Yeah, were talking about the same Golden Heroes. Actually character creation wasn't that bad, since you have to justify your powers with your origin story. You got some extra powers, but were expected to drop some. With a good GM and players, character creation worked. There was also an alternate version similar to V&V that broke up powers by type, better fitting certain concepts. GH played very well and had some nice ideas. For one thing, it allowed a thug to be able to actually kill a civilian with a single shot, something that was tough in most other hero RPGs at the time. GH also had some neat stuff, like the campaign ratings, that helped to flesh out things. I also liked the HTC/HTK way of handling damage much better than the methods used in Champions or Superworld.

Sure, my rational is as follows: 1) Big company products are more likely to show up on the shelves than third party products. Both because game stores are more likely to stock WotC, or Chasoium than Joe Smoe's games, and also because many third party companies don't produce hard copy. So, barring shrinkwrap, consuers can flip through the products and filter out the good from the bad before buying. 2) New systems from old companies are usually a bit easier to guess about than new systems from new companies. For instance, we can guess what a new Chasoium or WotC gaming book will be like. So if we have a preference, we can filter that way. So if you like what a company has released in the past, you are more likely to like their new product. But if you haven't heard of the company before, you have nothing to go on. 3) Since established companies tend to be in this for the long haul, there is less chance of seeing them release an entirely useless piece of junk to make a fast buck. There's a lot of OGL stuff out there that just snags a quick profit for some fly-by-nighter. I haven't seen many 3rd party products that match the quality of the official stuff. Most the OGL stuff I've seen has been crap. At best, feeding someone's desire to be a profession RPG writer, at worse a quick buck. Most is really fanzine quality stuff. That also hurts RPGing, since now people are less likely to share their homegrown stuff, when they can sell it. OGL did what is was supposed to do for WotC. It turned around the trend in RPGing and made D&D/D20 the predominant system again. Practically any company that is writing good D20 stuff was writing good or better non-D20 stuff before OGL. OGL won't help BRP much, since the majority of RPGers don't give a squat about BRP anyway. And most D&Ders don't look at and buy non D20 products.

Yup. With Jimmy Olsen STR 2, Pre-crisis Superman STR 48, and post-crisis Superman STR 25, the difference between post-crisis and pre-crisis Superman is the same as between the post crisis man of steel and Jimmy! By comparison, most of your Marvel heavies, such as the Hulk, the Thing, Iron Man, Thor and the Submariner would be around STR 13 in the old DC game.

What made "Supergirl" world was that she wasn't actually Supergirl, but a watered down copy. It gave the character some depth too. Basically, she couldn't handle the death of her family, and rejected her normal identity for her delusional one. It was sort of interesting, since it would be difficult to psychoanalyze someone who could duplicate the powers and abilities. Her biggest vulnerabilities were not so much to more powerful villains, but to villains with knowledge of the comics. She was worried about being exposed to Element #36 on the periodic table. We knew it would have no effect on her, but she figured it was lethal. But yeah, overall DC character are more powerful than Marvel ones (pre-crisis Superman can, and did bitchslap the Hulk), making them harder to work out in most RPGs. As will any 4-color "team" campaign, the GM needs to vary the challenges in order to ensure that all the heroes are useful. Sometimes this can be funny. "Yeah I can fly. Oh, fly a PLANE-no I can't do that! I could carry the plane there, though. If it doesn't break in half. But pilot one, no." Hey, can Clark Kent drive? :confused:

Ironically, this is sort of a side thread of a side thread. The idea being that one of the advantages of closed systems is that you can see what you are buying before you buy, where as with PDFs and many third party products, you are forced to buy blind. I wonder what other regional differences might exist in RPGing?

Tell me about it. For decades I ran many, many different RPGs (I think my RPG experience probably rivals the one in your intro), yet whenever I got a chance to play, I was usually stuck with D&D, since that is all anyone else was running. I used to tell my gamers that it was frustrating that I was the guy who picked up these RPGs because I liked them, and yet never got to enjoy an RQ, Pendragon, Timelords, etc. campaign as a player. I've got some games now that I would just love to play/run, but can't find anything other than D&Ders in the area.

Realistic heroes do work better than 4 color heroes in BRP. A Captain America type, with good stats and great skills, and a high AP shield would be easy. Batman, a little more difficult, due to gadgets, and more powerful heroes more problematic. Still, SUPEROWLRD did handle the high power characters fairly well. My character concept for the "Wildcards" setting was a teenager whose family was killed by the swarm, and felt powerless for not being able to save them. When she got superpowers, I literally had her become the most powerful heroine she could image, Supergirl, and gave her most of the same powers, although toned down to fit within my point allowance, and she had to be a bit delusional to get enough extra points to do it. She may not have matched up to the DC character, but she could pick up a M1 tank.

That's one of the other differences between TL and BRP to. In BRP the db is constant. If a troll has a +2d6 db, he adds it to his punch, as well as to his maul. With TL the STR bonus was as a multiplier to the weapon effect. So STR was more useful for larger weapons. Quite sensible, since most weapons act as leverl to increase the effective STR.