Jeff

2 minutes ago, Alexandre said:

This is interesting and is a disconnect that is happening in my game. The assistant shaman has a strong rating in the Man rune (for maximum spell efficiency, if nothing else!). So he should be civilized, should like what is made by man (warm baths?) etc. but this seems to be contrary to what you expect a shaman to be. 

Look to Korean shamanism for some ideas. Everything has spirits. Your assistant shaman is more strongly connected to ancestors, the spirits of human communities, the spirits that watch over tribe and community, etc., while the spirits of the "wild" are more hostile.

On 5/13/2019 at 11:17 AM, Shiningbrow said:

Cool. I'm happy with that...

I just don't think everyone would like to be on the receiving end... or just shrug their shoulders and accept it.

 

(trying to get through the modern material... most of the way through Sourcebook... next tackle/hurdle is the GoG...)

This stuff is all over Gloranthan literature. Many people fear that the entire God Learners project was actually a series of Trickster Lies. Same thing with Nysalor/Gbaji - the whole matter of Illumination is just a Trickster Lie. 

As for Charisma making it easier to persuade others, yep that is exactly what it does. You might hate Yanioth, but damn when she puts on her goddess aspect, she is so damn impressive that it is really hard to not follow her. She's not cheating, any more than Baranthos is cheating when he uses that 100% Orate skill of his. You know Baranthos is about to make one of his barnraising speeches the moment you hear that hackneyed opening, "Seven summers past, the wild queen, Cleopatra, dreaming her dreams of ruin on your lovely Empire, sailed her hopes into the harbour of Actium...." But despite knowing his oratorical techniques, even you find it a persuasive speech.

9 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I like the current management views that the differences in interpretations is where the creativity and originality can creep in. This has been mentioned by various members of the Chaosium Brass as being a feature and not a bug, (and it sounds a hell of a lot more sincere then similar statements from MicroSoft et al) at one time or another—not to universal accliam, unfortunately—so I hope this philosophy still steers the ship.

Yes it does. Everyone comes to RQG with a different purpose. There are many diverse styles of play and there are countless mechanical situations that need to be resolved in a manner appropriate for your game. Not my game - your game. 

Man Rune represents civilization, man over nature, enjoyment of the things made by man. You can be a very disorderly civilised person and a very harmonious person who prefers the wilds.

Sorcery is presented in the context of Dragon Pass. None of the Tap spells are on the list of stuff commonly found in the Lhankor Mhy temples, who aren't even Malkioni. So let's imagine a player wants to create a LM Philosopher character and says, "I know Steal Breath isn't on that LM spell list, but I want to have it - as a philosopher I get three sorcery spells, and that's one." I'd say fine! There was a scroll containing Steal Breath hidden in the Jonstown Library and after much study you've figured out how it works. The spell didn't come with commentary - and you don't personally study Malkioni ethics.

So you have a spell. It asphyxiates your foes AND gives you magic points! Hurrah!

But then your High Priest hears about this, and wants to know what strange magic this is. He researches the spell and learns of its other name. Tap Air. He worries that this might be evil God Learner sorcery and the sort of thing that nearly destroyed the world. He doesn't forbid it but discourages it.

And then you meet a traveling Rokari wizard. He is appalled by your use of the evil Tap spell - you've proven yourself to be the stereotype of the amoral or evil Krjalki sorcerer. He demands that you give up the spell or even claims you are a God Learner. 

Meanwhile, the new patron of the Jonstown Library, Prince Argrath, summons you to Boldhome. He asks you to join a group called the Free Philosophers, but you get the feeling that you are not free to refuse him. He expects that you broadly teach this spell to your fellow philosophers....

54 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Which sort of brings us full circle - is Tapping evil?

(and, FTR, I'm still conflicted... but probably that's because the player inside me wants to say "No!" so it can be used at will 😛 )

Most Malkioni consider Tapping of living things to be evil, and many Malkioni schools do not teach Tap spells. But the Technique of Tapping in inherent in sorcery. Transforming matter into energy is just basic to the principles of Runic manipulation. So even if a school forbids Tapping, it is likely that it is secretly practiced.

There are male Mistress Race trolls. I can think of several - Gore and Gash, etc.

11 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, you are suggesting that the LM Sage who gets fed up with the stupid grunts who want to control everything and decides to Dominate Human(oid) to get the vote to go his (far more intelligent and thought out) way is not a problem?

The Kolati Shaman who possesses the Orlanthi King is well within their rights to do so, as long as it's helpful (or if it's not!) at the request of his mate on the Council Ring, just to swing the majority?

Anything goes, huh?

 

The difference with your example is that the politicians will keep doing those things here as long as they don't get caught! The thread started on whether magic is clearly obvious (some yes, some no, some...??) and then extended into how people might react to those which are obvious/visible. Politician X doesn't order the killing of a political rival on TV (nor, usually, in the middle of their cabinet room)... and neither should the Ernaldan Priestess drop in a Charisma in the middle of the discussion (for sort of similar reasons).

This sort of (mis)use of power happens in Gloranthan stories. The rise of Lokamayadon, and the efforts he took to bring harmony to the warring peoples of the Second Council. Alakoring stripping priests of their power until they submitted to him. Hon-eel beguiled the priestesses of Ernalda and enter the deep womb of the Earth. And so on.  

18 minutes ago, Marty Jopson said:

Cool. Thanks for all your help. I think I'm worrying too much. I was planning on starting out with Broken Tower as that seems to have a good mix of community / clan intrigue and weird Gloranthan fights and cows. We just ran the Rohan campaign for One Ring and everyone is thoroughly sick of horses. Cows will make a nice change. 

@Sumath I considered a one shot first as you suggested but we meet so infrequently that people decided they wouldn't rather get into a game properly. I'm inclined to agree that character creation looks like it will generate an appreciation of the setting.  I will give King of Dragon Pass a try and can then lure my teenage kids (two of the players) with that. I can just see it now "Dad says we have to play this game on our iPads".

another question - possibly a separate thread - how would you link Broken Tower with all the fun and games up at Apple Lane. I'll probably use the second cattle herding GM pack scenario after Broken Tower as that seems a better fit. But is it worth shifting the Tower north and swapping out the tribes somehow for Malini ones? 

Broken Tower works just fine with the GM Adventures material, at least I've thrown them in together. If the characters are from around Clearwine, they likely will have conflict with the Grey Dogs, but can try to act as "fair brokers" with the Orleving. If they are from around Apple Lane, the reverse. 

One great moment in a recent run of Cattle Raid - having the player who only knew DD5e realise that his character might get killed when he was in the middle of a cattle stampede. He was both horrified and filled with excitement - "I might be killed by a cow! This is so awesome!"

2 minutes ago, Manu said:

Thanks

Other situation : a PC is attacked by a spirit (as the spirit see the POW of the PC, he will probably attack the weakest). How can the other PC help him? Bound spirit can be of any help? Or is he doom

 

Cast Spirit Block - a common Rune spell. And then run away!

3 minutes ago, Manu said:

When you don'"t have a shaman or a Free Ghost at hand?

Can anyone with a bound spirit ask this spirit to attack the Ghost in order to make it leave the body? Any spirit?

You find a shaman or someone with Free Ghost.

In most Gloranthan communities, everyone knows that the gods act through their worshipers. This isn't considered "cheating" or "tricks" - of course any Ernaldan priestess worth her salt is VERY impressive when she wants to be.  Of course people accept ideas and suggestions of the Trickster from time to time, even if doing so makes no sense on hindsight. Of course the local priests buckle down when confronted by the local Orlanth Rex. That's how society works. 

Another word for the visual aspect of Rune magic is Heroforming. The caster takes on the aspect of the god and often gets referred to as the god. So it wasn't Priestess Arndala who told the council they must make an alliance with the new Prince, it was the goddess Ernalda who spoke. And so on. This is part of the Gloranthan mindset. The gods can and do have multiple incarnations, and sometimes they even confront themselves. Orlanth Adventurous confronts Orlanth Thunderous, and so on.

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Simplest solution to the squabbling Ernaldan priestesses problem:  Whoever wins is the superior manifestation of Ernalda and the one in the Right.

Yep.

1 minute ago, metcalph said:

I think it reasoned that because Sorcery was the magic of the Invisible God, it was also invisible in effect.  But given that RQG sorcery uses the Runes, I don't think this reasoning persuasive.

I agree.

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

I didn't mean 'trick' in that meaning/context. I meant in that people would be aware that there is magic which allows for that power (in game terms, Ernaldans have access to a Rune Spell called Charisma, and it's used to get people to agree with the caster). They would also be quite aware that, although casting Rune spells does "bring down the deity", it doesn't mean that it's actually the deity's will or opinion that is being expressed.

That's not necessarily the case. The deity works through their worshipers who wield the power of the deity. When a priestess wielding the power of Ernalda acts, Ernalda acts. And yet at the same time, the gods act against themselves. Orlanth fights on both sides of the battlefield. Just because the priestess speaks for Ernalda, that doesn't mean she is her ONLY voice.

But the point is that a priestess who incarnates the Charisma of Ernalda is going to be taken very seriously by her audience. This is no Trick - Gloranthans accept that the gods intervene in the world in this way. 

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

If the "casting of a spell has effects" is true, then what do we think is going to happen when the Ernalda Priestess desperately needs to convince the council not to go to war, and casts her Charisma spell in the middle of the meeting? Or the Eurmal casts Clever Tongue and everyone starts agreeing with him? (yes, I get that they're hopefully smart enough to cast those outside, then come back in...

Which would then lead to - if the Eurmali starts making sense, shouldn't everyone get a roll to think "hang on, that's not right.... dispel magic!"

Easy enough - they take upon the aspect of their god. The priestess seems greater, more important, like the very Earth Mother is present in the room and centered upon her priestess. The Goddess speaks - who dares defy Her?

Eurmal is present. and despite any rational misgivings you ought to have, you are convinced by his incarnation. That is the way of Eurmal. 

1 minute ago, seneschal said:

Penthesilea does not look like a happy camper. Wouldn’t want to cross her.

These are fantastic!

2 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Fair enough, but it's close enough given the absence of anything more obvious. The Mastery rune is needed to rule a tribe and MofST involves Orlanth becoming a ruler of a tribe, so it's not a huge leap to see the quest as being used to get the Mastery rune, especially given that there needs to be a way to acquire the Mastery rune for those who have political ambitions but don't have the Mastery rune (which would be everyone except a subset of Orlanthi and the small number of people who just naturally have the Mastery rune as their third rune). Otherwise the Heortling ruling class would be a tiny elite. 

In RQG terms, the Mastery Rune denotes Herodom, not political leadership.

1 minute ago, Bohemond said:

Well, obviously it gets into mechanics, but I'm more asking about which quests exists for the Mastery rune beyond Orlanth Forms the Storm Tribe. 

 

I'd love to see the Ernalda side of MofST. We get a glimpse of it in Six Ages when Ernalda sends the questers to get material to make a torc, but that's just a snippet. Is there more from Ernalda's perspective that I don't about? It seems obvious that at some point she orchestrates the Night Tribe's attack, but how?

As far as "becoming the object of a marriage contest" goes, that's a pretty passive scenario for a player to deal with, and passive generally means 'Minimum Game Fun' for the player involved. So what does Orendana actually DO in the myth? 

I'm not sure that Orlanth Forms the Storm Tribe is even what I would consider a "Mastery Rune" quest. 

I've said this before and I will say it again - as a practical matter, canon only restricts people who are writing for Chaosium or for licensed products. "Canon" is that lists of texts I want my writers to follow. For players, gamemasters, and pedants, YGWV. I am happy to tell folk which books are on that list, but its function is not to resolve forum debates. 

Is this a game mechanic question or a general Gloranthan question? The answer depends greatly on that - and if this is a game mechanic question, for which game system?

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Time zone difference.

Yep. The players were on the west coast of the USA, Jason and I are in Central Europe. 9 hour difference.

7 hours ago, EpicureanDM said:

EDIT: It's probably not a coincidence that the two public games I found on YouTube GMed by RQG's designers either didn't involve combat or fudged/ignored the SR system for the new-to-RQG players.

That's not the reason at all. Both Jason and I were running those games at about 3 am our time and had a very tight time limit for the game. 

I ran a wonderful session of RQG in Poland last week to a group of great players. None had ever played RQ (in any form before) - two were familiar with Call of Cthulhu, one was familiar with D&D, and one just started playing RPGs two days before. We played the Cattle Raid from the GM Adventures Book and used the Pregens.

A few suggestions: 

1. Don't overexplain stuff. The key concepts that players needed to grasp were: how do skills work? how do Runes work? how do passions work? How do I augment? Once they were familiar with that, they were 90% of the way there.

2. Only tell them about the spells they have. That's three special Rune spells and about an equal number of spirit magic spells. Let them know about Heal Wound and Divination - none of the other Common Spells really matter in the initial play. Tell them Rune spells are powerful and you aren't going to get your Rune points back until there is a holy day at your temple. Spirit spells are easier to recover and every day you will wake up refreshed.

3. Walk them through the first combat with something they are very likely to beat, but will show them that combat is dangerous. Rock Lizards, Saber-toothed Cats, Pig Dogs - all are good options. SR just gives them the order of action.

4. Give them non-combat conflict with their characters. Play up those Runes and passions. Make sure their characters have a backstory and connections between them. Give them a moral dilemma they have to wrestle through.

5. Tell them a little bit about THEIR gods but use the god's title as much as its name. Storm King says more than Orlanth to most people. Same thing with clan and tribe. You are a member of the Clearwine clan (Ernaldoring) who are the most powerful clan of the Colymar Tribe, the most important tribe in Sartar. Most players grab that quickly.

IMO, the best current starting scenarios are either Broken Tower or Cattle Raid. Both are easy to run, teach elements of the setting, and have lots of different ways of resolution.

As an aside, one of the punishments for crimes against the Red Emperor is to be fed to the Crimson Bat. The Bat needs to eat about 10,000 people a year, and so criminals are often the first to go.