Jeff

5 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

And very nice German reds, which are often best served chilled!

Now you are getting into the spirit! 

24 minutes ago, svensson said:

Well, you're the boss

It's not like I won't be buying the books after all... lol!

I will say that in a city like Nochet or metropolii of the Lunar Heartland or Ralios, Lanbril ought to thrive. I mean, if a city on the edge of nowhere like Pavis can have three Master Thieves and their gangs all working [out of a population of just 5000], then those areas ought to have a dozen or more in Nochet and at least a couple or three per city in Ralios.

Oh yes! And Nochet is so big it has *multiple* thief cults!

2 minutes ago, svensson said:

 

Lanbril isn't supposed to be mythically significant. Where Eurmal is  a Trickster god, Lanbril is an out-and-out thief. Eurmal is by and large a rural deity of Storm pantheon who provides a place at Orlanth's table for those who don't fit in anywhere else. Lanbril is the god of organized urban crime for those who are disenfranchised in the larger power structure. Where Eurmal cultists find a role in their society as jesters and dissenters, Lanbril's people are absolute parasites who feed off the work and wealth of the world. And since he doesn't belong to any specific pantheon and has few ritual ties to other cults, he avoids that whole Sun vs. Storm vs. Moon kerfluffle. Therefore, it behooves Lanbril and his cult to have no great mythic deeds nor a huge role in society's ritual life. If a Lanbril Master Thief had his way, nobody would ever know the cult existed. Let others be 'heroes', Lanbril wants to be rich and subtly wield the power that wealth and those underground connections brings him.

As to the spread of Lanbril's cult, wouldn't it be present in the cities of Ralios given that the region is the interface between the Invisible God's influence and the elemental theist pantheons? With all the fighting and internecine strife, it would be a perfect incubator for a god of thieves.

As to Black Fang, I thought the cult was more international than that. It may be that my impression is from the GM in an old campaign I played in.

Which is why Lanbril and Black Fang get their write-ups in the new Pavis book.

11 minutes ago, RHW said:

Austria produces far more beer than wine (about 5 times as much), ditto Bulgaria and Romania. Switzerland’s domestic production is 3:1 beer. Tyrolia has a long tradition of beer production, much more so than the rest of Italy. Though the Greek word for wine predates the Indo-Europeans, they brought beer with them. Today Greece makes roughly the same amount of each.

I’m not saying you CAN’T grow wine in places like that. But it’s much easier and cheaper to make beer. Modern consumption figures push Switzerland into the wine column, but most of that is imports. If they had to make what they drink, beer wins. Austria, Romania, and Bulgaria are all beer country, by both production and consumption.

I cheated a little bit with my examples, since I spend my winter holidays every year in the Vinschgau (my in-laws are Bavarian and I spend the holidays skiing with my father-in-law) and as a result I am very familiar with what you can get there. It is a very old wine-growing area (at least since the 1st C BC, probably much earlier). There has been a trend in the last century or so towards beer consumption (probably a by-product of better transport systems), but wine is still the drink for evening meals, much more so than say in northern Germany (where I live).

But if we go back to my original post, beer is drunk in all agricultural lands. It is just too easy to make. But in Dragon Pass and Kethaela, it has a lesser "cache" then wine. You'd drink beer while working in the fields. You drink wine to honour the gods or your companions. Or to get drunk. If you really want to impress, you drink mead or honey-wine.

In Dara Happa, rice wine or rice beer is traditionally consumed (rice after all is the main crop in the Tripolis), although there is probably some viticulture in the West Reaches (white wine only - it is too cold for good reds). Now that doesn't mean the Lunar nobility doesn't drink wine like fishes - like the ancient Gauls, they buy it by the amphora, hauled all the way from Kethaela by mule. You've got daughters of the Red Emperor who snobbily compare a Vinavale red with a Longs red ("there's no comparison, you fool!"), and swear by the even more expensive Tanisor sweet red ("flavoured with cedar resin from Tarinwood!"). 

1 minute ago, RHW said:

So the same latitude as France? 😉

While the natural climate for Peloria might have cold winters, magic moderates that and snow is rare, right? Thanks to Kalikos, you’re not getting a Minnesota winter in Silver Shadow or even First Blessed. I bet you wouldn’t have had them when Dara Happa was at its height either, except when things went horribly wrong.

True enough, but keep in mind that the Kalikos Quest only started in the middle of the 7th Wane (7/22 to be precise, or 1590 for you barbarians). 

5 minutes ago, svensson said:

Quick question regarding Lanbril and Black Fang...

I was under the impression that both of these cults were international but very independent. What I mean by that is that the different cult branches never talked to each other and had no hierarchy beyond the local head priest, but there were cults of both located all over the Genertela... at least from Ralios to Prax anyway. So it would seem to me that including them in the Gods book would be appropriate.

Am I mistaken in all that?

Both Lanbril and Black Fang are going in the forthcoming Pavis and Big Rubble books. Mythologically both cults are pretty insignificant. Lanbril may have lots of stories about himself, but nobody else bothers to tell stories about him. They are important for understanding Pavis, but not for understanding Glorantha, if that makes any sense. 

1 hour ago, Julian Lord said:

That wasn't my point -- and Voriof is Storm, not Earth, and so has nothing much to do with those triads -- my point was that if you have Voria, the cult for girls, you need Voriof, the cult for boys.

That's not why Voria would get included. Voriof is handled just fine as a short associated cult of Orlanth Adventurous. The reason for including Voria is that as the goddess of Spring, she is part of a much larger and more important mythological web.

7 hours ago, RHW said:

I feel like Kerofinela and Heortland, barring some exceptions like Colymar, are terrible places for growing grapes. Grape vines thrive in places with long dry summers and moderate winters. Too much cold and the vines freeze, too much humidity and they get rot. I believe winters are harsh in most of Orlanthland and it rains a lot, both because of altitude and myth, so vines would struggle there. Colymar is the lowest lying part of Sartar (more or less) and probably has some magical blessing which moderates their winters and/or protects their grapes.  So while most Orlanthi drink beer, cider, and mead, the Colymar stand out as wine-drinkers. Their beer-drinking brethren likely find it suspicious and effete. “Of course them Colymari went purple. They already drink like the reds, so no wonder they worship like ‘em.”

That's the Southern California bias coming out! Actually, you can grow wine in some places with surprisingly cold winters, and even wet summers. I tend to think of much of Dragon Pass being loosely comparable to Switzerland, Austria, and Northern Italy (or to areas in the Balkans like Bulgaria, northern Greece, or Romania), all of which have very long traditions of wine-making.

You are correct that good red wine does require long dry summers and moderate winters, but white wines don't. 
 

As an aside, the Lunar Heartland is climate-wise more like the upper Missouri or Mississippi valleys, with cold winters and hot summers. I know of far more good wines from the Vinschgau than I do from Illinois.  

3 minutes ago, kiryamo said:

 

Yes, precisely because I have seen several gods of chaos on the list I have asked the question.

And I asked, too, because in the book list that Jason Durall announced in The Kraken 2018 was included, according to The Runebloger, one with the provisional title of Gods of Chaos, along with God of Glorantha.

Initially that was what I thought I would do as well. But I started to put together the Heroquesting material, I realised I needed to have all the "core cults" in one collection. Otherwise it was just making more work.

3 minutes ago, kiryamo said:

So, will there be a specific book for Chaotic Gods -something like a update of CULTS OF TERROR-, or all the information about them will be included exclusively in GODS OF GLORANTHA?

I suggest folk look at the list of cults I already posted.

The cults included are those necessary to tell what I think needs to be told. This is not intended to be every possible cult - but it is a big list.

40 minutes ago, svensson said:

Hey everyone.

One problem that I've run into in trying to convert my DnD friends to d100 is that Glorantha is just too 'early period' for them. They'd much prefer a setting where they can wear heavier armors, where steel is common, and there's an Adventurer's Guild. In short, they want something more DnD-ish. But they're also attracted to my sales pitch about d/100... that there are no 'classes', no classes means you can start as a farmer and end up a high end wizard if the campaign goes on long enough, that the system doesn't tell you 'no', it just applies penalties, that you don't suddenly ding! a level but rather watch your character grow the skills they want to have, etc. etc. etc.

I've dug out my QuestWorld box for the Kanos continent, so I'll be setting it there.

I've even got an idea of a campaign basis that isn't England or Waterdeep or Greyhawk.... I'm going to use a displaced population of Komnenan Byzantines [that's Constantinople in the Crusades era].

But my question to you all is what d100 system should I use?

My issues as GM are these:

--I want cult membership to be a resource for the PCs, but not the all-encompassing subculture that it can become in Glorantha

--I want to keep magic reasonably simple but leave room for the fireball-throwing secular wizard type if that's what a PC wants

--I'm probably going to throw some definite 'you're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy' elements [for example, no horses or cows, but substitutes they've domesticated since their arrival]

So, anybody got any thoughts about this?

I'd add a few fancier armors to RQ, strip out Runes, use spirit magic and sorcery but no Rune Magic.

Or I'd use KAP.

14 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I believe Esrolia noted for its red wines.  Kosh and Thelos both cited for wine in the Guide.

 

Correct! As was stated in my original post.

1 minute ago, jajagappa said:

Cider was the pre-eminent drink in my old Imther campaign, with a lot of orchards in the lands south of the Imther Mountains.

I think apple wine and cider are common throughout Dragon Pass and Peloria. Cider is drunk "young," apple wine needs to be aged.  

6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Correct and correct. Clearwine proper is an iced wine, although most of the stuff called Clearwine is actually just a white wine. A tasty one though - probably similar to a nice dry Riesling.

And you can imagine the low esteem the wine-drinking Colymar have for the beer-swilling Lismelder. "Ducks and Grey Dogs, both ignorant of the Sweet Green Woman's blessings!"

15 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Clearwine is confirmed as a white wine on page 103 of RQ:G, also mentioning it as being an ice wine.

I imagine Burned Wine would cover any number of forms of brandy and other distilled drinks.

Correct and correct. Clearwine proper is an iced wine, although most of the stuff called Clearwine is actually just a white wine. A tasty one though - probably similar to a nice dry Riesling.

1 minute ago, Tindalos said:

I'm surprised by the presence of both Engizi and Oslira. While I'm all about differences, I hadn't realised there was that much difference between the two river cults. This sounds interesting.

Also, given you mentioned excluding gods of purely local importance, I'm even more surprised by the inclusion of Caladra and Aurelion! I didn't realise they were worshipped outside of Caladraland.

They aren't found outside of Maniria, but they are REALLY important in Caladraland. So much so that that you can't really get the Holy Country without being aware of their cult. 

20 hours ago, jps said:

This is really big, everything we need to play in the default setting, including Lunars and Chaos cults ^^

It is really big. Somewhere around 350k words. The Guide itself was 460k words.

1 hour ago, Humakt said:

Is gonna be subcults as well? 

Many cults have plenty of sub cults. Some don't. 

One thing I tried to emphasise in the rule book - when Rune Magic is cast, you ARE the god. When you see texts referring to the "Orlanthi gods" showed up at the battle, or similar phrasing, that usually means that there was a lot of Rune magic being used.

20 minutes ago, Jeff said:

For what it is worth, I've done a lot of thinking about alcoholic beverages in Glorantha. Important Note: *STORM TRIBE and THUNDER REBELS are not canon.

BEER: Everyone in agricultural lands drinks beer. It is the most common drink of the Pelorian basin (but see Rice Wine), less so in the lands south of Kero Fin. Many varieties of beer are known. Beer is closely connected with bread making (the yeast from beer is used to make dough).

WINE: South of Kero Fin, wine is the most popular drink. White wine is grown throughout Heartland and Sartar. Red wine in Caladraland and Esrolia. Most commoners drink watered-wine, unadulterated wine is drunk by the wealthy and in festivals. The Lunar nobility values wine greatly. The ice wine brewed in Colymar lands and the red wines of Vinavale are particularly valued.

MEAD: A high status sweet drink. Particularly popular in Dragon Pass.

BURNED WINE: This Sartarite alchemical drink is claimed to be either the invention of the Lhankor Mhy cult or the result of a misuse of Dwarf artifacts. 

RICE WINE: In old Dara Happa, rice wine was the preferred drink of the urban population. It is still the main drink of the Lunar urban population.

CORN BEER: Drunk throughout the Lunar Provinces, Doblian and Oraya satrapies. This low-alcohol drink is thick and creamy with a sour taste. 

 

I totally spaced some other important drinks:

KVAS or KUMIS: fermented milk from horse, bison, high llama, or other herd beast. Low alcohol content. Drunk by Praxians, Grazelanders, Sartarites, and some Lunars.

FRUIT WINE and CIDER:  Beverages made from apple, pears, plums, berries, etc. are popular throughout Dragon Pass and Peloria.

25 minutes ago, RHW said:

 

Wait, what? Buserian is a mask? So he’s Lhankor Mhy?

Yes. He's the Dara Happan name for him. 

For what it is worth, I've done a lot of thinking about alcoholic beverages in Glorantha. Important Note: *STORM TRIBE and THUNDER REBELS are not canon.

BEER: Everyone in agricultural lands drinks beer. It is the most common drink of the Pelorian basin (but see Rice Wine), less so in the lands south of Kero Fin. Many varieties of beer are known. Beer is closely connected with bread making (the yeast from beer is used to make dough).

WINE: South of Kero Fin, wine is the most popular drink. White wine is grown throughout Heartland and Sartar. Red wine in Caladraland and Esrolia. Most commoners drink watered-wine, unadulterated wine is drunk by the wealthy and in festivals. The Lunar nobility values wine greatly. The ice wine brewed in Colymar lands and the red wines of Vinavale are particularly valued.

MEAD: A high status sweet drink. Particularly popular in Dragon Pass.

BURNED WINE: This Sartarite alchemical drink is claimed to be either the invention of the Lhankor Mhy cult or the result of a misuse of Dwarf artifacts. 

RICE WINE: In old Dara Happa, rice wine was the preferred drink of the urban population. It is still the main drink of the Lunar urban population.

CORN BEER: Drunk throughout the Lunar Provinces, Doblian and Oraya satrapies. This low-alcohol drink is thick and creamy with a sour taste. 

2 minutes ago, womble said:

Can you tease some more on the Scenario book and the Starter box's content?

Pretty please?

With sprinkles on top?

Be patient. All shall be revealed soon enough.

3 minutes ago, womble said:

Oh, there's one thing I noticed there that makes me fear Crel is right...

I have to implore the creators to put the basics of this (at least) in the Gamemaster Sourcebook if that's a product out before the HeroQuesting book. Hero Quests have been brought so much to the forefront of the game world now that we GMs would be greatly assisted by some guidance on how characters and their stats fit into the experience. The concept of 'write them as you go' is intriguing, too...

Heroquesting will likely be about a third of the GM Sourcebook. 

So I am wrapping up the text of this book, while making sure that it all ties into both the new Heroquesting chapters in the GM Sourcebook and into the Hero Wars Campaign. It is increasingly looking like this will be a two-volume book, as it includes the long form of more than 70 cults.

It is perhaps easier to say what the book does not have:

• The Invisible God of the West. This needs its own book, as my notes keep expanding. Additionally, the Invisible God needs to provide a materialist and humanist interpretation of the Gods and Goddess book - and serve as the Sorcery Book. So this one gets pushed into its own book.
• Godunya and the East. Same deal. 
• Pamalt and the South. Same deal - I toyed around with including Pamalt in this book, even wrote up his cult. BUT I've concluded that it would make far more sense to include Pamalt and his version of the pantheon in a Pamaltela facing book.
• Minor gods of purely local importance, such as Pavis, Lanbril, Flintnail, other city gods, etc. These are better placed in their settings.
• Deities that can be better handled as masks or variant names of other deities, e.g., Elmal, Buserian, etc.

So what is left? Well the book is more than 50% bigger than what was previewed at GenCon and has been pretty intensively revised. Here's the current list of cults that are definitely in it:

1. Kyger Litor
2. Annilla
3. Argan Argar
4. Gorakiki
5. Xiola Umbar
6. Zorak Zoran
7. Magasta
8. Choralinthor
9. Dormal
10. Engizi
11. Oslira
12. Ernalda
13. Aldrya
14. Asrelia 
15. Babeester Gor 
16. Caladra & Aurelion
17. Donandar
18. Eiritha
19. Flamal
20. The Grain Goddesses
21. Hykim & Mikyh (includes Telmor and Basmol)
22. Maran Gor
23. Mostal
24. Ty Kora Tek
25. Uleria
26. Yelm
27. Dayzatar
28. Dendara
29. Gorgorma
30. Lodril
31. Lokarnos
32. Lowfires
33. Polaris
34. Shargash
35. Yelmalio
36. Orlanth
37. Chalana Arroy
38. Eurmal
39. Issaries
40. Lhankor Mhy
41. Daka Fal
42. Foundchild
43. Heler
44. Humakt
45. Mastakos
46. Odayla
47. Storm Bull
48. Valind
49. Waha
50. Yinkin
51. Seven Mothers
52. Danfive Xaron
53. Deezola
54. Etyries
55. Hon-eel
56. Hwarin Dalthippa
57. Irrippi Ontor
58. Jakaleel
59. Nysalor
60. Red Goddess
61. Yanafal Tarnils
62. Primal Chaos
63. Bagog
64. Cacodemon
65. Crimson Bat
66. Krarsht
67. Krjalk
68. Mallia
69. Pocharngo
70. Thanatar
71. Thed
72. Vivamort

I am still debating about whether to add Horned Man, Triolina, Subere, Wachaza, and Voria to the list. 

For me this has been comparable to writing the Guide - especially realising how these various groupings of gods overlap, intersect, and form a magical whole. Even in the West, South, and East, these are the deities that form the cosmic foundation (although often with different names and different stories).