Oracle

Title says "RQ Design Notes #19", but the link goes to RQ Design Notes #18 ...

• Religions and beliefs do influence normal life with respect to motivation, cultural behaviour, etc. similar to (ancient) real life on earth.
• Gods and spirits do exist.

17 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

yes, you have, every single time someone lists the years, they were inclusive.  You just didn't realize it till now. If the Red Queen's reign was from 1487 to 1495 she ruled for 9 years.  She ruled in 1487, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 and 95.  Count em, 9.  If you try to say she only ruled 8 of those years she'll have to cut your head off.

15 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

So if the campaign ran from Sea Season 1 1618 to the end of the second week of Sacred Time 1618 it ran how long? (1618-1618)

It ran one year.

So if it ran till the second week of Sacred Time 1619 (1618-1619) it ran how long?

Please don't say one year as surely now you see that makes no sense.

It all depends on the real dates:

If the reign of the Red Queen started at Freezeday, Disorder Week, Sea Season 1487 and ended at Godsday, second week Sacred Time, 1495, then you're right: reign of 9 years.

But if her reign started at Clayday, Fertility Week, Earth Season, 1487 and ended at Waterday, Fertility Week, Earth Season 1495, then you have only 8 years.

Conclusion: Year ranges without given exact dates are always fuzzy.

23 hours ago, Balakatun said:

First post after lurking the forum for what feels forever...an online actual play would be such a great tool to both teach and advertise HQ (and Glorantha).

my 2 cows

Not sure if that counts as an online play from your point of view, but I know, that there are several PbF (Play by Forum) games running at rpggeek.com. I know of at least two, which are led by @jajagappa, and in one I'm lucky to be one of the players - and I've learned already lot about how a HeroQuest Glorantha session is working.

• RPG: HeroQuest (2nd Edition) » Forums » Play By Forum

• The Nochet Campaign - HeroQuest Glorantha

• The Colymar Campaign 2 - HeroQuest Glorantha

For me it all started when I attended my firat Runequest (III) session on a small role playing fair in Berlin, Germany during the early mid-eigthies of the last century (that sounds weird ), where one of the prepared characters provided by the Game Master was ... a duck! I couldn't resist. (This duck had the best climbing value in the group, so you can guess, who had to go up all the time on the trees for getting a better outlook ...) This was one of my greatest game sessions ever! (I still own the character sheet!)

Next point was, that religion is not just a more or less important add-on to the setting, which mainly provides the first aid staff needed in a world of constant fighting. It was integral part of the culture (regardless which one you used). It was the basic moral compass for actions of all people involved in a Gloranthan game in a much more differentiated way than the alignment system I knew up unto this point. Pantheons and Gods had relations, which motivated the actions of their followers. Much more to what religion was in our world than any other role playing system I have seen.

Different nations, cultures, peoples could have quite different views about the same historical/mythical events, which was reflected in different legends/myths/stories. And members of these nations were absolutely convinced, that their view was the only right one.

Last but not least: non-human races. Although the names sounded familiar (Elves, Dwarves, Trolls), they were so different from everything I had seen so far, so alien, that they made this setting absolutely outstanding to any other existing role playing setting - and still do so.

Ok, so several lesser Elder Races are not listed in this section because of space constraints. That's fine with me. But the question still open is: Which are the more obscure races? As far as I can say, the (formerly) lesser Elder Races mentioned so far were not explicitly classified as Lesser Elder Races. So if I rely on the Guide to Glorantha only, how do I know, if e.g. Baboons or Morocanths are Lesser Elder Races or something else?

33 minutes ago, Christoph Kohring said:

...

I agree with Christian Braun who wrote elsewhere that: "HeroQuest [2] is the RPG I always dreamt of. It's simple, yet lets you do everything you ever wanted to do. It's not a game for rule freaks, it's a game for people who like a game that supports your imagination."

Exactly!

2 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Many of those are mentioned elsewhere in the Guide. So I imagine in the interests of not duplicating material they weren't included in this chapter. There are text boxes on Slarges, Luatha, and Timinit, and a subchapter under Oceans on the Waertagi.

Some others are mentioned in the Prax overview: Baboons, Morokanth; Tusk Riders are mentioned in the Troll overview; Voralans are mentioned in the Elf overview; Ludoch are mentioned in the Merfolk overview.

So the only ones 'missing' are Giants and Grotarons, and there's quite a bit about the former scattered about.

Yes, I've seen the entries about Baboons, Morokanths, Tusk Riders, etc. So I've expected to find something about the missing entries later in the Guide. But are they classified as Lesser Elder Races anywhere?. I don't think so. So the question is: Has the classification changed or was is it just not mentioned (the latter you could say is an error ...)

As already mentioned in previous comments this section seems to be a slightly enhanced reprint of the respective information available under the same title in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha. But there are some points, which triggered my attention:

• Beat Men/Centaurs: the Centaurs have their own entry in the Elder Races Book, although also mentioned there in the Beast Men entry. As Centaurs were alway considered as Beast Men (as far as I know), it is probably consistent to do without this extra entry. On the other hand the Mythos and History of the Centaurs entry in the Elder Races Book mentions, that Centaurs living now may be the result of some medical experiments performed by the Empire of the Wyrms Friends. And I think, I have read similar things about other Beat Mes subtypes too (but I may imagine that ). But no information in that direction in the Guide - at least not up to this point.
• Lesser Elder Races listed in the Elder Races Book but not in the Guide:
  • Baboons
  • Giants
  • Grotarons
  • Luatha (which are a race of immortals and therefore may not applicate for being a Lesser Elder Race)
  • Ludoch (but are now part of the Merfolk section in the Elder Races chapter)
  • Morocanth (do they not count any more as an Elder Race, because they are one of the Five Great Tribes of Prax?)
  • Slarges
  • Timinits
  • Tusk Riders
  • Voralans
  • Waertagi
• Lesser Elder Races listed in the Guide but not in the Elder Races Book:
  • Scorpion Men

Any reason for these differences (besides space constraints in the Guide)?

Also missing again: population table and distribution map.

On 28.7.2017 at 4:06 PM, Joerg said:

...

I don't know when the concept was discovered, but the Seven Great Kindred of the Triolini and the different Mer-Tribes appear to have been around at the time of Charlie Krank's take on the Neleomi Sea and the Wartain mertribe.

...

Seven Great Kindreds of the Triolini? This section lists the Ludoch and the Malasp each as one of the two Great Kindreds. Do I miss something here?

So far I’m only aware of Merfolk descriptions in the Gloranthan Bestiary published for RuneQuest III. And the Ludoch description in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha. This chapter is a clear extension of this information, but nevertheless it is the most incomplete section so far – especially if compared to other sections: No population table and no distribution map, no reports from Lhankor Mhy sages, etc. So the information about the Merfolk is still very incomplete.

At several places it is explained, that Merfolk is the name humans use for the Triolini – but not here. In the Hero Wars box Tritons are mentioned – but it is nowhere (in this section) explained who they are.

The Merfolk has its own section in the Elder Races chapter – but in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha the Ludoch are listed as Lesser Elder Races. So obviously something has changed here, but @scott-martin's explanation from above may be the reason.

Also interesting: in the Gloranthan Bestiary the Zabdamar are Piscoi, now they are neither Cetoi nor Piscoi.

Again an enhanced version of a text previously available in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha. One of the obvious enhancements is the fact, that the Troll Types section is a mixture between similar sections in the Elder Races Book from the Elder Secrets of Glorantha box and the Uz Lore book from the RuneQuest III Trollpack. Other enhancements are again from the Uz Lore book (e.g. the The Curse of the Kin and the Snow Trolls boxed texts) as well as from the Book of Uz from this box (e.g. the Troll Ecology and the Typical Hunting Party boxed texts and illustration).

Points of interest:

• The Troll Ecology text describes dwarves as being some kind of … sedative drug for Trolls. Quite interesting.

• The Troll Ecology text lists some reasons, why dwarves and elves are sworn enemies of Trolls (and vice versa).

• Snow Trolls. A very special Troll species, which could be used in some Winter … no, sorry, Storm Season adventures. Or even better in adventures located in the North.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

... but I suspect SOMETHING could be done along these lines...

True. And I confess, I would like to see it too. I just have my doubts about, how easy it could be done (given the available man-power).

47 minutes ago, Roko Joko said:

Pardon my **** but personally I give very few ****s about whether Joe Cow****er has 53% Animal Handling or 61%.  I want to know what novice, veteran etc. ranges are and how many skills people in different roles will have advanced, and how far.  Then I can improvise it.

I liked the RQ3 skill-points-by-year rules because they grounded skill numbers very objectively, and you knew exactly what they represented in terms of life experience.

Exceptional stats for NPCs would be cool, to know if so-and-so has low SIZ or high Hates Nose Flute Music.  But full traditional RQ stat blocks for everyone sounds like it would be a bit bulky.

Yes, basic rules for how to do a conversion and complete write-ups for exceptional NPCs would be a very useful approach.

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Given that RQG isn't out yet, "right now" seems a bit premature.  

I hope that beginning the RQG-ification of HQ stuff does follow pretty hard on the release of those core rules, however!  There's SO much playable content; it'd be silly to keep it locked behind such a (relatively-trivial) barrier...

 

With so many planned releases at hand

• 5(!) books alone for RuneQuest Glorantha
• completing the RuneQuest Classic Kickstarter and get the results printed and available
• completing the 13th Age Glorantha Kickstarter (at least 2 major books)
• completing the Khan of Khans Kickstarter
• going ahead with the next RuneQuest Glorantha books
• going ahead with the next HeroQuest Glorantha books
• getting all these things promoted on so many conventions and wherever else
• whatever I've missed here

and with only so many people available (what? 10? 15?) this barrier seems not so trivial to me ...

Another enhanced version of a text previously available in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha.

Reading this text definitely breaks any association with dwarves from other role playing games. Especially the illustrations underline the weirdness of this race. It seems difficult to make them part of a campaign, as they are so reclusive. One possible story hook could be view, that possession of firearms by non-Dwarves is outright dangerous. So a Mostali could be the employer for a player group (possible never visible, but staying in the dark) for retrieving this kind of dangerous weapons. Will the player characters understand these weapons? Will they hand over these weapons after retrieved from wherever they were?

Another way to get dwarf in a regular play are the Dwarf Heresies of Individualism and/or Openhandism. If you want to have a dwarf in your player’s group, then this most probably will be a apostate/”broken” dwarf, mortal and otherwise very different from normal dwarves.

Isidilian the Wise is a Quicksilver dwarf? That was new for me.

The Capstan of Curustus illustration: a Project Mangement Meeting? So I’m living in a Mostali world without realizing it? (Really, the illustration is great!)

The Alchemical Transformer: the illustration and even more the description text piqued my curiosity. Do we know more about this?

19 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

...

Now they must bring this information back and prepare the pieces needed for their quest.

 

Which probably will take at least another year (real time) of PbF play ...

1 minute ago, jajagappa said:

...

Yes.  Sorry to quote from something that is not yet fully available. :-(

That's ok as long as I understand, where it comes from. Everything else is just a matter of time ...

13 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I believe it does.  GS p.14 says "The Brown Dragon: This True Dragon awoke in 1625 and devoured the New Lunar Temple in Dragon Pass. It currently resides in a vast and deep gap in the earth called the Dragonrise Chasm."  And on p.160, "The True Dragon spiraled around Dragon Pass, circled Mount Kero Fin and then returned to the huge crevice it had made where once stood the New Lunar Temple."

So this means the Dragon of Jarn is the Brown Dragon is the Dragon of the Dragonrise?

BTW: GS is the Gloranthan Sourcebook from the 13th Age in Glorantha Kickstarter (which is still not available for late starter like me ...)?

17 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

That text/description was out of the Elder Secrets book as I recall.

Yes, that's true, but I've never read the Elder Secrets books as extensively as I currently do with the Guide. And the Black, Green and Red Dragons are also mentioned in other sources (e.g. HeroQuest Glorantha), but I'm not aware of any other source (that I know of ) mentioning the Dragon of Jarn ...

This chapter seems to be an extension of the Dragonewt chapter, as Dragons are not one of the Elder Races – they some completely different. Added because you can not talk about Dragonnewts without at least a minor understanding of Dragons.

Again this is a text from the RuneQuest III Elder Secrets of Glorantha box. This time it’s a version of Secrets of Dragonkind text from the Secrets Book.

It seems there are more True Dragons in Dragon Pass than I was aware of. The Black, Green and Red Dragon I knew as well as the one awakened with the Dragonrising, but the Dragon of Jarn was new to me. Beside the description of Garstal Shavetop is it mentioned in any other source?

True Dragons in Kralorela. As already mentioned this is another reason to learn more about this area, which so far I did ignore way too much.

According to the description in HeroQuest Glorantha Wyrms are

Quote

… a misguided attempt by the Second Council to create new dragons after the ancestral dragons either went away or went to sleep. ...

This reads a bit different here. at least from the description in this chapter I got the impression, that Wyrms may have existed already before the Empire of the Wyrms Friend. According to what living Wyrms say, they are just using a different path than other dragonkind. Is that true? Can we believe, what Wyrms are telling us. (Or is the whole topic open to interpretation? )

Also interesting the connection between Dragons/Dragonewts and Dinosaurs … although I tend to follow Garstal Shavetop’s comment in the sidebar ...

On 18.7.2017 at 7:45 AM, jrutila said:

I have to say about Glorantha Elder Races that they really were the thing that hooked me up when I was young and first started to read about Glorantha. Every other (or so it seemed to innocent young me) fantasy world had those basic Tolkienesque tropes of Trolls, Elves and Dwarves. And orcs! The first thing I was so happy was that there was no orcs!

...

Some here for me. Shortly after I've started Fantasy Roleplaying at all (in Germany with 'Das Schwarze Auge'/The Black Eye and D&D in the mid-eighties, I've found an article compilation about several role playing games (in German). One of the articles was about Runequest, and one of the sentences from this article has been burned into my memory since then: "Forget all you know about trolls - these trolls are different." Especially in comparison to the trolls in the regular fantasy role playing games.

Around the same time I enjoyed my first Runequest adventure on a small convention in Berlin - playing a duck!

On 18.7.2017 at 7:45 AM, jrutila said:

...

In Glorantha Trolls are intelligent "dark humans" and they have their own civilization. Is still remember how I liked to read the menu from a Dagori Inkarth Inn (don't remember the name of it but the specialty was roasted elf or something). ...

Yes, that was the next point: Buying Troll Pak (for RuneQuest III), which contained this menu from a Troll inn offering "Elf Torso" in impala butter with a dressing of your choice. These trolls were really different! And Elves were real plants!

So yes, the Elder Races were one of the reason, why I've been interested in Glorantha since then - although for some reason I've never used it in my own games - not until now.

This is a heavily enhanced version of the Dragonewts chapter in the Introduction to Glorantha Book from the RuneQuest III Gamemaster Box. Interesting: the Dragonet (the fifth stage of a Dragonewt, still called so in Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes) has become the Inhuman King.

The Dragonewts and the Unity Council sidebar text was already available in the Dragonewt chapter of the Sartar:Companion as well as Communicating with Dragonewts boxed text and the Duty to Repay Favors paragraph in the Dragonewt Code of Ethics boxed text.

A history from the point of view of Dragonewts! That’s just great, although far from complete (e.g. one of the reasons for the Dragonkill, the destruction of Dragonewt nests by humans is mentioned in the short history section in HeroQuest Glorantha, but not here).

The Dragonewt Behavior section as well as the Dragonewt Code of Ethics boxed text contain some good hint, how to handle Dragonewts as a Gamemaster.

Most interesting: the Dragonewt Skulls document. It contradicts in some points the descriptions in the text (using term like Phase One and Phase Two instead of Stage One and Stage Two, Stage Three Dragonewts being carnivorous vs. being omnivorous, and Phase Two Dragonewts being omnivorous vs. being carnivorous), but so far I do not see these as errors in the Guide but as errors in the document fragment. Would like to see the full work.

In Dragonpass there is Dragon’s Eye and eight smaller cities/nests. Which are these cities? High Wyrm (#4), Contemplative Rest (#7) and Ghosts-Around (#8) are mentioned in the Sartar Companion. Which are the others?

The whole chapter is a slightly enhanced and restructured version of the Aldryami chapter in the Elder Races Book from the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets of Glorantha. Interesting detail: the boxed text Recollections of a Pamaltelan Trader is dated back from1623 S.T. to 1618 S.T.

The Pelorian parts, especially the boxed text about Pelorian Flowers, seem to be new as well as the boxed text The Hero Wars Begin. Both of these boxed texts give an impression, what the secret plans of the Aldryami are – lots of possible adventure “seeds” :-).

Both of the new elf pictures are fantastic – especially if compared with the Elder Races Book! But I have an issue with the big colored one: where is the Great Tree? The area, where the High Elf King stand, which definitely has the golden hue, which is mentioned in the description, but does not seem to be nearly 300 feet tall? Or the big tree in the background with clearly female attributes? I tend to the latter, but I’m not sure.

In the boxed text An Aldryami Shaman’s Grove a “wonderful contest” is mentioned. What kind of contest might that have been? I want to know more!

The Trolls got their Trollpak (even two times, third version in development!). Will we ever see an Elfpak?

Also completely new stuff for me. There are some bits and pieces from Kralorela description in the Genertela Book of the RuneQuest III box Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars, but overall its completely new - and not enough .

I'm aware, that its wrong probably to associate Kralorela with ancient China, but there are to many things, which simply trigger some associations. Again some immediate campaign ideas: something like the Water Margin (rebels against bureaucracy and corruption, Chinese Robin Hood story). Would become even more interesting with a real Dragon Emperor and some Dragon Magic on the side of the bureaucrats ...

Or The Journey to the West. Although I do not have any idea, what the Monkey King would be in Glorantha ... and being a search for illumination (?) the story may also be too high powered. More on HeroQuest than on normal adventure level ... But anyway a good inspiration for stories/scenarios.

On the Eastern Culture distribution map there is a blue spot (Kralorelan influence) north of Dragon Pass (Balazar). What does this mean?

Draconic mysticism - another topic, that I would like to explore more ...

Lots of things, that simply pique my interest, and are explained or at least detailed later in the Guide hopefully ...

So far the longest cultural description. And although the structure is similar to the original Western description in the Player's Book from the RuneQuest III box Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars, the contents is completely overhauled. No medieval references, no churches. Castes instead of social classes. It's now much more original with history heavily based on a sorcerous heritage.

Interesting are the connections to Pamaltela: there are references to Vadeli as well as to Agimori/Dorradi people. So obviously there was contact to that areas in ancient times (before the Closing).

The description of Malkioni Wizardy is quite similar to the Sorcery description in HeroQuest:Glorantha (which is no coincidence probably )

The Writings of Zzabur - something a aspiring PC sorcerer would look for?

Several short descriptions of Wizardry Schools. Enough to pique your interest, too little to satisfy you ...