Oracle

Again (as with all Pamaltela) this is a blank spot on my Glorantha map. So it was quite exciting to read this chapter. A whole culture based completely on slavery? That gave me immediately some basic campaign ideas like starting a group to free all the slaves (inspired by one of my favorite cycle of fantasy novels: Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame) or some outside force starting to fight for the freedom of the slaves (similar to Daenerys Targaryen's campaign in the Slaver's Bay in Game of Thrones).

Given the fact, that being a slave is so intrinsic to Fonritian Culture, it may not work at all. On the other hand: These are the Hero Wars!

That's, what's happening a lot while reading this cultural descriptions: getting ideas, how I could use these cultures in a game ... and always getting hungry for more details ...

Also interesting: the Vadeli Legacy

I'm late this week, and most of the things, that I've found were already mentioned here, but anyway ...

a lot of the descriptions for Pelorians seemed to be familiar as long as they were related to the Lunar Empire, because they matched, what I've learned about it in several Sartar based publications. The existence of the Lodrili people outside of the cities was a surprise. Never heard about them before. So there is more than just Dara Happans in Pelorian lands ...

Also new to me: the social structure with Nobles, Witnesses (?) and Officers, Headmen, Workers and Slaves. Why Witnesses? What do they witness?

The ceremonial mattock is great. Looks really authentic.

4 hours ago, Psullie said:

does the reprint differ that much, I though it was just typos etc

From the RuneQuest II Classic Rulebook, p. 43, right column

Quote

Sometimes the only way to get rid of a spirit is to kill the
Shaman or to run far away from the attacking spirit or ghost one
 is fighting. To do so, the character must ignore the Spirit attack.
 This has two effects:
 1.     The spirit will be able to take POW from the character
 every time it overcomes the character’s resistance with no
danger to itself, and the character cannot use his POW for
 overpowering spells.
 2.     The character can continue to move and perform physical
 and intellectual activity as if he were not in Spirit Combat.

4 hours ago, Steve said:

Good stuff here on the Doraddi. I hit a problem early on in terms of my own ignorance. In the Housing section on p.23, first paragraph, it days how the poles "double as drags" while on the move? What are "drags" in this context, please? I tried googling but there are too many meanings of the word for me to figure out what is meant here.

...

I've immediately imagined kind of a stretcher containing their belongings, which is dragged (sic!) by a beast of burden (or some slaves?)

But again: I may be totally wrong here ...

17 minutes ago, jrutila said:

...

At the end of the section there is a mention about Reversed Air Rune. This is the first time I hear about it. Could someone please tell more about it?

My thought was, that this is just versus , but I may be completely wrong ...

The description of the five Great Tribes of Prax in the Distribution and Subtypes section is a slightly adapted version of the same descriptions in Pavis:Gateway to Adventure. The descriptions of the Independent Tribes in the same section are new. Contrary to the respective section in Pavis:Gateway to Adventure it lists only 8 (instead of 10) of the Independent Tribes. The Ostrich and the Unicorn Women tribes are missing. I’m not sure, if this is a mistake or a deliberate omission. The boxed text about The Herd-Men is from Pavis:Gateway to Adventure too.

The following sections are a merger of the respective information in the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars and Pavis:Gateway to Adventure, updated and enhanced with one or the other new information.

The numbers in the Praxian Population box are a slight surprise at first sight, as they are much smaller than the respective numbers in the previous Culture description. But a look at the map shows, that the region covered here is also much smaller, so smaller numbers should be expected.

Again a fantastic illustration displaying a High Lama Rider and a Sable Rider Queen. The respective descriptions are very useful in getting an overall impression as well as pointing to some of the details in the illustrations.
“… Her face and skin has been painted with runes, especially those of Earth, Beast, and Moon... “
I can see the earth rune, and I tend to see the triangle on her right cheek as a simplified Beast rune. But where is the Moon rune. On the tip of her nose?

There appears a sidebar on p. 37, which repeats the Customs of Interest section from p.36. This seems to be an editing error. Or should the Customs of Interest section on p. 36 contain different information? (The respective section in the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars, has a different content.)

given the fact that this is the most explored culture (besides the Praxian tribes) in the real world history of Glorantha, it is not surprising, that this is the biggest of the Culture chapters.

It starts with another excerpt from the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars. It was a surprise to me, how wide the Orlanthi population is spread over Genertela and even Pamaltela. Another surprise was the note, that several Orlanthi tribes and kingdoms are influenced by other pantheons than the Orlanthi Pantheon (especially the Invisible God). Seems that besides Palmaltela the western part of Genertela is also still a mystery to me ...

The Social Status and Centralization sections are excerpts from the (Lunar!) Report on the Orlanthi published in the The Orlanthi Book from Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes enriched with bits and pieces from the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars.

Personal Virtues and Gender Relations are from the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars. The Customs of Interest section (about Orlanthi Tattoos) is from a sidebar in Book One of Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes.

The Living Conditions section is a compilation of similar sections from Book One in Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes, with the Housing section a bit updated.

The Languages section is a combination of a modified excerpt from the Theyalan Language section in the Appendix and the boxed text about the Three Sacred Scripts in the Lhankor Mhy cult description from Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes.

The rest of the chapter is a compilation of enhanced excerpts from the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars.

The illustrations are again simply overwhelming. The pictures of an Esrolian Priestess and an Aggari Thane are very helpful to get a mental picture of how Orlanthi should look like (although the Aggari Thane is much heavier armored than I would expect from an Orlanthi – but what do I know about Aggar?)

Even more impressive is the Heroic Society illustration. This is the first picture of a Vingan, which is really convincing for me. I wouldn’t dare to cross her at all cost. The whole picture gives a solid impression, how you should imagine a chieftain’s hall. Again a good example, how you should imagine Orlanthi people.

The boxed text Orlanthi Flight is a slightly modified version of a similar sidebar text in the Orlanth cult description from Sartar:Kingdom of Heroes.

This chapter contains completely new information about the Doraddi Culture – at least as far as I know with respect to official Glorantha publications. Could well be, that this is an enhanced version from the already mentioned Pamaltela book, planned to be part of the RuneQuest III Glorantha box, but dropped and never released making this box the Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars box.

The whole section tells me, that I do not know anything about Pamaltela. New Culture, new gods. Again a fantastic illustration of some Doraddi people … much to learn here.

The Hsunchen chapter seems to be based on the respective chapter in the Player’s Book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars, but was heavily enhanced and updated (especially the Distribution and Subtypes as well as the Mythology section). The following parts seem to be completely new (at least from my perspective):

• Hsunchen Population numbers
  in conjunction with the distribution map this gives a good impression, where you can meet Hsunchen people

• Appearance section
  it’s always good to have an idea of how people look like ...

• Beast Brothers section
  very interesting information, that beast brothers are handled differently depending on which type of Hsunchen is involved.

• Hsunchen distribution map
  although small this map is a good overview, where you may meet people of this culture in Glorantha, which is very useful, if you’re preparing a game in a certain area … or where to locate a game, if you want you’re players to meet people of this culture

• Language section

• The Telmori Werewolves boxed text
  short explanation how Gloranthan werewolves became, what they are now … not exactly what I’ve imagined so far.

• one-page illustration displaying a Rathori hunter and an Uncoling shaman plus boxed descriptions of the two. This is just great. You get an immediate feeling how it would be, meeting these people in a game …

• Hykim and Mikyh boxed text
  another fascinating bit of mythology … I've already heard about Hykim and Mikyh, but that's the first time, that I've had a focus on that topic.

Over all this chapter triggered my curiosity to create a Hsunchen player character. Certainly the information given here is not enough (no occupations, no description of spells, etc.), but at least it is a start. I’ve always wanted to play a werewolf, so I’ve even dived into the Telmori description in The Coming Storm. Even that is not yet enough (it is even stated, that description is only included for creating HeroQuest NPCs, but not real player characters), it contains some hints. Some more work would be needed, but it should be possible.

@David Scott Would it make sense to create a subforum for this Guide to Glorantha Group Read? I'm switching back and forth between the 4 threads available for the first 2 weeks already now, and I'm pretty sure, this will increase while we go ahead in the Guide. It may be difficult to find all related threads later and compiling them in one dedicated subforum would make it much easier to get access to all the information compiled during that Group Read. Especially for people starting to read the Guide later.

Maybe this idea is way over the top, but I wanted to ask at least ...

59 minutes ago, Byll said:

Is there a typo on the Chaosium front dust jacket  where its says 

"Unlike most fantasy settings Glorantha draws its inspiration for the ancient world"

To my (British-english) ear, it sounds as though it ought to have been "...draws its inspiration from the ancient world"

And there is more. In the next sentence it says:

"It has far more to do with Babylon, Classical Greece, ancient China, Hyboria, and Lhankmar that it does with medieval Europe, Le Mort D’Arthur, or the Hundred Years Wars. Its heroes are Achilles, Conan, Gilgamesh, and Rostum, not Galahad, Lancelot, and Roland."

I'm pretty sure it should be than instead of that (there is a quite similar sentence in HeroQuest Glorantha, where this is part is correct).

I'm not so sure with the hero's name after Gilgamesh. I guess this is there hero from the Shahnameh, but in all references I had access to he was called Rostam, Rustam, Rustom, or Rustum, never Rostum. But that would be just another variant, so it's also correct maybe.

9 hours ago, Oracle said:

9 hours ago, Oracle said:

Same here (with respect to the browser), but I was able to run it as an app:

• download the ZIP file
• unpack the ZIP file into a new folder
• run java -cp <the new folder> EphemerisII

Just realized that you do not even need to unpack the ZIP file:

java -cp <your path>/ephem.zip EphemerisII

works perfectly.

I'm using the latest version of Firefox for 64-bit systems. No way to get the applet running inside this browser (support of NPAPI Plugins completely removed) except using the 32-bit version, which will include support until 2018.

So my solution is to download the Java application and to run it directly.

1 minute ago, Oracle said:

Same here (with respect to the browser), but I was able to run it as an app:

• download the ZIP file
• unpack the ZIP file into a new folder
• run java -cp <the new folder> EphemerisII

7 hours ago, AlbertG said:

Thanks, but it does now work in any of my browsers, nor do I know how to run it as a java app

Same here (with respect to the browser), but I was able to run it as an app:

• download the ZIP file
• unpack the ZIP file into a new folder
• run java -cp <the new folder> EphemerisII

Sorry, I did detect the new thread regarding this issue too late. Any further discussion about this application should be happen there now.

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

... The whole layout of this page really frames the battle of heroes, the clash of White Bear and Red Moon.

...

I've just realized: That's, where it all started! The release of White Bear and Red Moon (the board game) was the first time, that Glorantha became visible for the rest of the world. And look, what I have now sitting on my reading desk: two huge tomes, which you could measure in pounds as well as in page count, which are the result of 50 years of collective research. What an amazing achievement!

5 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I found myself a bit confused about what Troy ounces were so spent time covering to grams and annotating my Guide! 

In fact I did not spent too much thought on this, but would have probably more, if I would be a numismatist ...

Keep in mind, if I say something is new, then it's new to me. I do not posses all available Glorantha sources, let alone that I would have read them all.

So here are my notes to the week 1 read:

Book Jacket: Great illustration, which immediately triggers my curiosity. I can identify Harrek, the Berserker and Jar-Eel the Razoress, but who are the two other figures, which you can see, if you hold the book top down?
But this is the Guide (sic!) to Glorantha, and therefore this question is answered immediately on the inside of the book jacket: they are Can Shu, the Exarch of Ignorance and Cragspider, the Firewitch.

Title page: Kind of Atlas figure carrying the stars, the heaven on his shoulders. Another mysterious sight for the not (yet) inaugurated reader.
An impressive list of authors, co-authors, and illustrators. Many names I know from other Glorantha publications.
And the usual protection blessing, this time through Lhankor Mhy (how appropriate).

pp. 2+3: another impressive list of names, this time the supporters of the Kickstarter for the Guide. And some of the people I know even personally.

p. 4: and another list of supporters … plus an illustration depicting a (religious) harvest procession … very appropriate, as the existence of this Guide is something, you really have to celebrate.

p. 5: the table of contents for Volume I … gives a first impression, what to expect

p. 6: the foreword tells a short version of the nearly 50 years old history about how Glorantha was initially discovered by Greg Stafford and explored and refined over the years by him and a lot of other people. Told by Greg Stafford himself. Nice details, not known before. It also tells, how the vision of one man became the vision of many – which explains the long lists of contributors and Kickstarter supporters on the first pages.

p.7: a map of the World of Glorantha, nothing new here, but an awesome colouring of the map. Plus a short description of Glorantha and its structure, which is quite similar to the description found in the Glorantha book of Runequest III.

pp. 8-9,11: The first part of this Introduction is quite similar to the beginning of the 'Editor’s Introduction' in the Glorantha book from RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars.
The section about 'Types of Civilization' starts similar to the section 'Levels of Civilization' in the same Glorantha book, but instead of the former descriptions of 'Human Racial Types' (which appear later in the Guide) the four civilization types are listed. These descriptions seem to be based on similar descriptions of the civilization types in the Player’s Book of the Genertela box, but are summarized descriptions of these civilization types only, although updated and improved. Especially the term Barbarian has been changed to Chiefdom. Descriptions have been also made more generic, because they do not describe anymore Genertelan types only.
The following sections ('Magic and Religion', 'Demographics and Population Growth', 'Life and Death' and 'Social Organization and Politics') seem to be again quite similar to the same text passages in the 'Editor’s Introduction' in the Glorantha book from Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars. A bit restructured and adapted, but mostly the same.

p. 9: boxed text 'Four Paths to Magic'. Basic description of the four types of magic existing in Glorantha. No new contents, but a very useful summary I’ve never seen before in that form.

p. 10: The 'Cosmology of Glorantha'. Great illustration plus explanation of what you see in this illustration.

p. 11: new 'Magic and Warfare' sidebox.

pp. 11, 13-15: The 'Economic' section is much more extended in comparison to the respective section in the Genertela box.
New section about 'International Trade'. Contains a very picturesque description of a large market like in Nochet.
New section about 'Gloranthan Warfare' with useful descriptions of Light and Heavy Infantry and Cavalry.
New sidebox about 'Sea Trade'.

p. 12: boxed text 'Coins in Glorantha'. Very nice overview with descriptions and very convincing example illustrations of some coins commonly used in Central Genertela. Illustrations could be from a museum catalog. New from my perspective and very useful for getting an idea, how the coins in Genertela look like.

pp. 14+15: The 'Harrek and Jar-Eel' fresko. Great illustration, which shows both Heroes in their mundane as well as in their mythical form. Surrounded by (new) boxed texts describing the Heroes as well as the details of the illustration. Creates a good impression who and what these two Heroes are. Also contained is a description of the Red Goddess.

p. 16: boxed text 'Bones of the Gods'. Slightly revised and enhanced version of a text from the Secrets Book in the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets.

pp.16+17: All sections on these pages ('Adventurers in the World of Glorantha', 'Human Racial Types' and 'Physical Nature') are revised and adapted (mainly avoiding references to the RuneQuest game system) texts from the 'Editor’s Introduction' in the Glorantha book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars.
The boxed text 'An Analysis of the Crystals of the Gods' is the reprint of a document from the Nochet Knowledgs Temple. First seen in the Secrets Book contained in the RuneQuest III box Elder Secrets.

13 hours ago, David Scott said:

... Please note which Guide version you are using - KS, Chaosium or PDF. Please include the text to be corrected and the correction.

...

8 hours ago, Oracle said:

PDF as well as Hard Cover (Moon Design purchase) ...

By the way: I've purchased my version of the Guide (Hard Cover as well as PDF) in April 2015 through the shop on glorantha.com, i.e. Moon Design Publications. Is this version identical with the Kickstarter version? Although: The PDF, I'm using is from February 2016, so I've obviously got an update on the PDF, which then couldn't be the Kickstarter version ...

1 hour ago, Psullie said:

...

Note: there are other forms of magic in Glorantha, Sorcery, Rune Magic (aka Divine Magic) and Animism. 

According to the Guide to Glorantha, p. 9, Animism is just another term for Spirit Magic.

The fourth magic form missing here is Mysticism (aka draconic magic or illumination).

Quote

PDF as well as Hard Cover (Moon Design purchase), p. 16, middle column, fourth paragraph: ‘… Thet are likely to be a wanderer in search of fame, prestige, or simple wealth, ...’

Should be 'They', as it is In the original(?) text in the Glorantha book from the RuneQuest III box Glorantha: Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars.

8 hours ago, tobarstep said:

The link to the core rules is dead. It looks like this might be the better source now: http://www.chaosium.com/heroquest-pdf/

 

This is also true for the German version of the core rules: HeroQuest - Das Regelbuch.

2 hours ago, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

Hallo zusammen,
mir bereitet die Übersetzung des Begriffs "Sun Dome" Kopfzerbrechen. Ich bitte daher um Rat. Hier sind einige Überlegungen.

Sonnendom - Das ist sowohl ein Kunstwort, als auch im Grunde genommen eine fehlerhafter Übersetzung.
 

Wohl wahr. Andererseits: lava dome --> Lavadom, Lavakuppel

2 hours ago, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

...

Sonnenkuppel - Das ist die wörtliche Übersetzung. Problem 1: Die Sonne hat keine Kuppel. Problem 2: Ein Mensch der von dort kommt, wäre vermutlich ein Sonnenkuppler, was lächerlich ist.
...

Bezüglich Problem 1 stimme ich nicht zu: Natürlich hat die Sonne keine Kuppel, sie bewegt sich aber über die (Himmels-)Kuppel. Insofern ist das aus meiner Sicht schon eine denkbare Übersetzung. Vergleiche auch

• cheese dome --> Käseglocke - auch hier hat der Käse keine Kuppel/Glocke
• glass dome --> Glaskuppel - hier besteht die Kuppel aus Glas, ist aber auch nichts, was eine Kuppel hat

Allerdings ist es tatsächlich merkwürdig, aus einem Sun Domer einen Sonnenkuppler zu machen (Problem 2)

2 hours ago, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

...

Himmelskuppel - Vorteil: Der Himmel hat im Gegegnteil zur Sonne tatsächlich eine Kuppel und da Sonne und Himmel die gleiche Rune in Glorantha haben ist die Übertragung kein Problem. Nachteil: Auch hier wäre ein Einheimischer wieder ein Kuppler, oder sehr umständlich ein Himmelskuppel-Templer.
...

Stimmt. Tatsächlich bin ich mir aber nicht sicher, ob sich Dome tatsächlich auf die Himmelskuppel bezieht. Ist nicht vielleicht eher die architektonische Form der Tempel gemeint? Dann wäre Sonnendom tatsächlich die passendste Übersetzung.

2 hours ago, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

...

Sonne - Das englische "Dome" einfach wegzulassen hat den Vorteil, dass alle Kombinationen des Wortes schön kurz und einfach sind (Sonnentempel, Sonnengrafschaft etc.). Nachteil: Man kann nicht mehr zwischen Sun County (in Sartar) und Sun Dome County (in Prax) unterscheiden, was aber vielleicht nicht wichtig ist. Wichtiger könnte sein, dass man so nicht zwischen der Sonnen/Feuerrune von Yelm und der Sonnen/Lichtrune von Yelmalio unterscheiden kann.

Sonnenlicht - Nachteil: Es ist relativ weit weg vom englischen Original. Vorteil: Es drückt sehr genau aus, worum es bei Yelmalio geht, nämlich das Licht der Sonne.

In beiden Fälle überwiegen für mich die Nachteile.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

On reflection I like Cold Sun Templar. 

Nicht schlecht. Wäre auf Deutsch dann Templer der Kalten Sonne? (Kalte-Sonnen-Templer finde ich nicht so gut ...)

7 hours ago, HorusArisen said:

So circumstances have enforced an extended hiatus from gaming but I still have that itch to scratch so...

Can anybody recommend any good HeroQuest (preferably Glorantha) actual plays I can read or watch? With HQ I'd especially like stuff that has a bit of rules explanations.

On rpggeek.com you can find several PbF games using HeroQuest Glorantha. I had the luck to enter an already running game in spring this year, which had already run for several years (but only several weeks in game time, as the pace is obviously much slower than in a real tabletop game). Going through the backlog of the previous game sessions gave me a lot of insight on how to handle certain situation in HeroQuest. E.g. the last pages of the OOC thread give a pretty good example how @jajagappa supported me in creating a new character (after playing an already existing character before.

I can recommend this game play definitely, but it's a *lot* of material to digest ...