metcalph

5 hours ago, JRE said:

I would say, at least looking at the spells in the rulebook, that Fire is one of the favoured Elemental Runes in Sorcery, and I am sure it is means that many sorcerers will choose Fire. After all, it will be the highest rune affinity of many sorcerers anyway.

It is the most favoured rune _in Dragon Pass and Kethaela_ as the spell list represents the spells known there rather than worldwide.

4 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

As for spirit magic, Vigor and Shimmer look best, and are reasonable enough.  Note that Protection and Counter Magic are not taught by Ernalda, so shouldn't be readily available.  (or will be at low levels).

Protection is available from several of her associated cults.  If there's a Storm Bull in the party, the Ernaldan can learn protection from his temple.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

In retrospect,  we might ask what makes a Mostali orthodox and what makes them heretical?  Is it merely a matter of numbers?  Can we show that there is a true mostali path?  Do Mostali live forever if they keep true to their programming like the Brithini?  Does this mean that individualists cannot take part in this blessing?  I think not. 

Orthodoxy is defined as adherence to the decisions of the Decamony, the likes of which was set up by the World Machine itself.  To say that the Decamony is wrong is tantamount to saying that the World Machine is wrong.   I don't think Individualists live forever as they have embraced their own mortality to become True Individuals.  They attach great importance to the claim that dwarves have souls which live on after death, which wouldn't be necessary if they were unaging like the other dwarves.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Isidilian. for example, is a Dwarf hero and he is also unquestionably an Openhandist, and immortal.  If there were to be more individualists Octramondists, Openhandists, or even Vegetarianists than the alleged  "standard" "non-heretical" dwarves, would the system change?

Isidilian is not a Dwarf Hero but a True Mostali,  a demigod if you will.  People claim he is Openhandist but I think he predates Openhandism.  He is a relic of the days when Stone was Alive.  He has no suspicion or distrust of outsiders because he was made in the days when there was no suspicion or distrust and he cannot deviate from that without repudiating the World Machine.  Openhandism is a philosophy that came after as inferior dwarves tried to emulate Isidilian's behaviour to survive the Gods War with limited success.  Openhandism is simply the observance of an obsolete code ill-suited to the Modern Age.  

If there were more heretical and apostate dwarves than orthodox dwarves then the definition of Orthodoxy will not change for only the Orthodox keep contact with the Decamony, in the saqme way that the Brithini are vastly outnumbered but tehir ways are still True.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

It would be good to clarify the relationship between Isidilian and Flintnail.

Isidilian is a Quicksilver Mostali.  Flintnail is a Rock Mostali.  Flintnail was the product of the same age as Isidilian but is far less flamboyant.  Like Isidilian, he is willing to work with outsiders and strangers but he does not inspire the dwarves around him to similar acts of free-thinking.  

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

There is much discussion of the "fall of Greatway" but really Greatway only "fell" to seeing things slightly differently than the Decamony.

Greatway fell because it allied itself with Dorastor only to suffer the assassinations at the hands of treacherous elves.  They admitted error when contacted by the Decamony and sent troops to march against Dorastor.  Their successors proved themselves incapable of maintaining orthodoxy and lapsed.  That is why Greatway has fallen.  

2 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

I’m cringing again. I can understand the leaving out the others, as they are just minor modifications of other Runes, but Law and Communication seem pretty important. Does anyone know why they were dropped.

Law is sorcery.  If I were to hazard a guess, its magic is only understandable through runic knowledges rather than inspirations and worship of the Gods.  Lhankor Mhy knows the Law Rune through Sorcery.  The techniques of Command, Combine etc. are derived from the Law Rune.

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How is the Styx Water gained from any Hero Question different from Styx Water gained from physically being there to obtain it? Would they have the same effect versus vampires?

Travelling physically to the Styx is I think a HeroQuest and so there is no difference

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I assume a vial taken on a Hero Quest to Hell, emersed in the River Styx would not have the same vampire slaying powers as the actual River Styx water or would it?

I'm not sure what you are asking here.  A Quester takes a vial of water to the Styx, dip it in but take care that it is not in contact, and wonder whether it has now become Styx Water?  Why would the Quester do this?  Why not take an empty vial and  just fill it up?

The history of Ramlia is fairly dynamic according to the Guide.  Around 1220 St, there was no Ramalian Kingdom but Valekos.  It was not extant in 1100 ST.  In the next map, the whole region is simply Ramalia.  Ergo, once Valekos became organized, they become part of Kingdom of Ramalia. This meshes with Baranwolf the Imposter who offhandedly mentions Ramalia in 1203 ST as a placename.  

I did once have a theory about how the Ramalian Nobility were cursed by the Book of Secrets but the chronology and geography no longer makes this tenable (the Book of Secrets was at Thanor now in the Mournsea.  The Ramalians weren't conquered by the Slontans fleeing the Deluge from the east but by the Valeks from the West which was comparatively untouched).

So why is it the Kingdom of Ramalia and not Valekos?  My guess is that Valekos was always a bit of a nasty place but one of the many noble families therein resorted to the use of the Mraloti of Ramalia as a source of troops in their wars against the others.  In becoming King, he has cemented his authority over the Mraloti.  As a result, the Kings of Ramalia quite happily use both the Valeks and the Mraloti to oppress each other.   

As for the future, I think that Ramalia has foreknowledge of the Reforestation and has contributed to it in return for being granted dominion over all conquered humans within its lands.  The Elves of Tarinwood are too out of touch with Humanity to be aware that this will be a Bad Thing.

I would have expected Ramalia to figure far more significantly in the Manirian Hero Wars.  The Players Book: Genertela described them as one of the two "Enemy Kingdoms" (the other was the Kingdom of War).

46 minutes ago, Darius West said:

The point being they won't detect as being chaotic.  Yes, the overt signs will be present, but not all chaos features have overt signs.  

I prefer Borderlands

Quote

CHAOTIC FEATURES
Many players and referees treat chaotic features as invisible
strengths for a given monster. In some cases this is true: in most
cases this is not true. A chaos feature is not only a source of power
to the broo or other chaos thing, but it is also a source of chaotic
malformation. If a broo were, for example, to have the chaotic
feature of +6 points of skin armor, it would very probably show
on him in some way, such as enormous sagging bags of leathery
skin, or as a mass of scabs over his body. A broo with the chaos
feature of reflecting 1 point spells may very well have a reflective

appearing hide, or some feature of his body that visibly returns
the spell (such as a third eye). No two broos look alike.

Borderlands p25

7 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Probably there has been some discussion on this somewhere/when, but my searches have failed to find it so far

Issaries has gone from Trade/Communication, Movement & Harmony in earlier rules

To just Movement & Harmony in RQG

Anyone know why that change happened?

Basically if they used trade as a rune, it would crimp the style of the RuneQuest:Glorantha Rune rules (which allows for only powers, elements and forms).  Condition Runes (of which Trade is) are special cases.  Further rules may have the Trade rune as a thing but not now.

3 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Raus might. Indeed have such friends on the Lunar side.  But Sartarite Rudolf son of Adolf, no, unlikely.  And if he was marked off given to the bat cult then what?  His friends can't be any more annoyed by the Thanatari fate than by the bat annihilation.  He was an unlucky rebel, no ransom, too bad.

It's unlikely that Rudolf would be tranported long distances to feed the Bat in Heartlands, considering that is where the Thanatari being discussed in this thread are based.

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

1% of HeartLands seems to me very high :

how many (%) farmers (or any workers even warriors) in the heartlands ? how many (%) would be illuminated (near 0 ?)

how many (%) nobles / scholars / priests ? then how many (%) would be illuminated (5% ? 10 % ? not so much ?)

note that I have no real idea, I ask about your figure but I have no source to demonstrate anything

The figure for the Heartlands Illuminates is from the AH Gods of Glorantha.   If 1% of the population is illuminated and 10% of the same population live in the cities, then it is more likely the proportion of urban illuminates is 10%.  This seems plausible to me.

6 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

He or she skims off the magically powerful ones.   

The magically powerful slaves that don't have the connections to get them busted out of slavery or for someone to kick a fuss when they go missing in transit?  I'm having a hard time seeing that.  If you mean high POW slaves with little magic then the resulting head's slightly better than a magic crystal.  But a political prisoner like Duke Raus is going to be missed no matter if not by the corrupt officials that were paid to look the other way then by his kin.

So I'm really don't think this as a viable pathway to become powerful.  It's possible that a Thanatari will acquire a caravan of slaves to be transported but I think it more likely the Thanatari will disappear with the lot to digest at leisure rather than chance a fuss at the other end.  

9 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This is true, but then, I don't picture wearing the heads at all time is a requirement? A nobleman doing it at his mansion, collecting the heads of slaves purchased for the purpose and perhaps the occasional traveller, could probably get away with it for a very long time.

Purchased slaves are unlikely to be worth the effort of a severed head.  The Thanatari acquires power from others who have it.  

9 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Ralzakark himself? I mean, one of the points about Illumination is that you achieve radical freedom. This includes the freedom to act in ways that the less enlightened would call "evil" (those deluded fools!).

Ralzakark is only one demigod.  I'm talking about a temple of illuminated Thanatari - groups of people.  If they all have radical freedom, how would they be expected to act in a the same way or even share the same goals?

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

Well, illumination will hide the overt signs of chaos like a chaos taint or feature. 

Kinda doubt that.  Hiding the taint is not an automatic feature of illumination and even when you learned how to, the physical effects of a chaotic feature (such as a third arm or broo's horns) can't be hidden - they won't just register as chaotic, that's all.  Now you could explain all this way within the Empire as a Chaos Gift but IMO you are still going to be ostracized.

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

No, I'm saying Thanatar will be an interesting choice for a certain subsegment of the Illuminated. I'm sure there's the non-Illuminated kind as well.

The way you describe how they think and act (supporting the empire rather than their god) doesn't strike me as interesting.

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It's going to be hard to be a Thanatari and not act evil - if you weren't breaking bad already (Illuminated or not), you wouldn't go for Thanatar.

Being evil and a Thanatari is not the problem - avoiding detection in a civilized society is.  No matter how illuminated you are is not going to save you from the authorities should you walk around with heads on your bely.  

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

And I'm sure we agree that Illuminated people can act evil, even systematiclly evil?

You really have to define systematically evil because I really don't see it as being compatible with illumination.  Even the one example of systematic illumination that you have offered up so far (Ralzakar's sword broos) can be better explained with a severe geas.  

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Illumination has nothing to do with good and evil - in a way, that's the point, and you might as well ask how a good person could be known to be Illuminated.

No, I'm pointing out that handwaving people as illuminated so they can collectively behave as stereotypical powergamers or what have you misses the point about what being Illuminated should actually be.  A Tahnatari that consumed someone's mind and ended up worshipping Chalana Arroy (someone's explanation for the Wild Healer) better encapsulates what Illumination is like.  It's madness mixed in with doubt on a cosmic scale.

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Presumably the rules model the world, and both rules- and lore-wise, it can make sense for an Illuminant to join Thanatar for power, I would say. It’s certainly not a large cult, but I can very much see it getting subtly spread.

You are just saying the supposed Thanatari in the Empire are all illuminated (for the benefits) but still act evil.  How could anybody (even themselves) tell whether they were illuminated or not?  

9 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Isn't this kind of liberation the point of Lunar Illumination? Chaotics can still choose to be bad (indeed, I would assume most do), but Illumination makes it voluntary instead of a compulsion? Ralzakark isn't horrible because he's a Broo, he's horrible because he chooses to be?

What's the point in making the Thanatari illuminated then?  It sounds like you are just reasoning from the roolz more than anything else.

5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Lords of Terror also states that the version of Thanatar in Shadows on the Borderlands is native to Carmania. 

I have a lot of doubt over a cult of Thanatar active in Carmania and find the idea that Thanatari can keep themselves clean by being illuminated to be absurd - nobody suggests it for worshippers of other chaotic cults.  

2 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

If the Crimson Bat has a place, I don't see why Thanatar is that big an issue, tbh.

The Bat is heavily controlled - Thanatar is not. 

Krarsht certainly would be present in the Empire but I have serious doubts about Thanatar.  Some people have suggested Atyar as a corrupt belief within the cult of the Knowledge God which would work but the actual taking of heads in the Empire is kinda farfetched IMO. 

There's about three or four known places that could be visited: Senbar, Red Hair Place, Orathorn and Hard Rule Only.  

Senbar is an evil place full of Huan To and lies far to the north of the trade route.  Only madmen and Lunars would consider making a visit there.

Red Hair Place is well-known.  

Visiting Orathorn requires a large detour.  It's much easier I think to visit the place through Gonn Orta's Pass.

Hard Rule Only is a city or place that once existed circa 1250 ST and looks like it was actually on the route.  Given the age in which it appears, it's possible it may have something to do with Sheng Seleris.  If so, I think it became the basis for Sheng's New Star and only a hole in the ground is now visible.

10 minutes ago, Jex said:

Hm... I thought Summon Demon was okay because Dominate Demon was explicitly given as an example of a Dominate (Discorporate Spirit) spell (p395), and I'd assumed Summon spells would fall under the same guidelines as Dominate spells. 

I think that's likely something that slipped through the editing process.  The other example given of a Discorporate Spirit is a Ghost which has a strict definition compared to the vagueness inherent in demon.  Sorcery generally wasn't meant to have catchall categories.  Given that the original demons are from the Munchrooms (Trollpak p196), I would have made it a specifc demon species rather than imply all demons are like this.

10 minutes ago, Jex said:

If not, though, do you think it would be all right to use, maybe, Summon Underworld Demon (which is what the demon I statted up is supposed to be)? 

Underworld Demon is still far too broad a category for my liking.  Greg once wrote about the Red Emperor being able to summon demons from the "Four-horned family" etc.    I think that's the type of a specificity should be aimed for in a sorcery spell.

3 hours ago, Jex said:

So, because I'm apparently a glutton for punishment, I decided to give a sorcerer NPC in an adventure I'm working on the ability to summon demons. 

 

Generally summon demon is too broad a sorcery spell.  It should be limited to a specific class of demon such as the Hollri (ice Demons) RQB p184 or Nyctalope p169.

40 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

50 generations in mythical time can probably be everything from 10 to 1000 generations 

In the actual text, I get the sense is "I can't be arsed finding out who came next - go bother somebody else"