Darius West

7 hours ago, EricW said:

Eurmal is a lazy drunken glutton who spend all his time stealing, pranking serious folk, chasing pretty girls, creating confusion with his lies, and running away from his responsibilities.

Seems like "wasted potential" to me. The fact he helped save the world and is occasionally useful doesn't change that. A powerful Eurmali might accept a serious infiltration task, and genuinely mean to carry it through, but by the end of the day surely it would be fart cushions and total bedlam - competing groups on "special assignment" to root out traitors, pumped up on trickster lies, screaming and denouncing each other. Fistfights in front of the officers.

Yeah, infiltration requires an illuminated trickster like Elusu the Little Shit imo.  Illuminated tricksters can overcome their innate self-indulgence long enough to complete a mission.  Swallow is the strangest assassination method, but exactly what a Lunar deserves, given their Bat abuse.

22 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I see, I hadn't picked up on that specific Humakti theological point. I was thinking of it purely as a Sartar-vs-Lunar social situation, "using the weapons of the enemy".

Yeah, np.  So in terms of the Sartar-vs-Lunar problem, it seems to me that Sartar has been under occupation for 22-23 years as of the liberation.  During that time it hasn't been a great source of its traditional weapons.  That means that most weapons made in this period will likely have been for Lunar clients and made according to lunar methods and patterns for Lunar use.  Now I imagine that Sartarites have captured plenty of that material, but much of their gear will be captured Lunar army surplus, somewhat reworked with refitted rune markings i.e. stripped off moon runes, added on air runes, etc.  In terms of kopises, this will amount to reworked hilts and guards.  No more bat motifs, more cat motifs.

15 hours ago, Monty Lovering said:

Spear are better than swords against armour because history.

I have rolled back quite a bit of complexity after six months of play testing with my players.

I started off VERY crunchy.

I’ve trimmed stuff that added nothing to the fun and kept stuff I think makes the weapons more believable.

Your table might enjoy that detail.

This sounds interesting Monty, please consider starting a separate topic to let people know what you have done with the system.

21 hours ago, icebrand said:

Indrodar Greydog dude! Pick up your Sword and lets meet at tourney altar, let me beat those sacrilegious thoughts out of your -clearly not blessed by humakt- mind.

It's a long walk from Lismelder to Tourney Altar for such a frivolous duel, and for what Indrodar?  Your tribe is more famous for its beer and its inn than for your unsuccessful efforts at clearing the swamp of zombies.  Does that irk you?  Truth rune speaks truth, and you know it to be so.  At least a fellow Humakti can appreciate your brave failure, let me buy you a drink for your sorrows.

If the PK pays for more land to be donated, they can likely cut the yearly expense to zero, but keep all the privileges if the protection of the land remain the PK's duty.

On 4/1/2022 at 1:46 PM, Shiningbrow said:

seriously??? Humakt is the biggest party killer of them all...

"Hey everyone,  come to my place Friday night,  and we can all talk about death, and I'll tell you about this great duel I fought a few years ago... (again)"...

No thanks!

I think you mean buzz-killer, as a party killer can mean something quite different (TPK terminology). 

On the other hand, the notion that Humakti can't party completely ignores their gothic self destructiveness.  While dueling is preferable within Humakt, it is possible to drink oneself "to Death".

Compare that to little miss axe castration fetish in the corner and I know who I'd rather party with.

18 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Humakt is not just a Heortling deity, he's worshipped all over the place, so saying "even Humakt doesnt care" as though Humakt would care more than Orlanth is a nonsequitur.

The reason Humakt cares more imo is because Yanafal Ta'arnils was an ex-Humakti, and his trick of bending his sword so that it didn't break from Humakt's sword breaking apostacy curse (way worse than a mere spirit of retribution, as Humakt himself breaks the swords) might admittedly be a matter of some cult concern, if it is even the case. 

It does raise the issue of whether a Humakti illuminate like Yanafal who is repeatedly resurrected, thus openly flouting the cult's principles, is actually subject to the "spirit of retribution", given that the spirit of retribution is a God. 

18 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

"It isn't extreme therefore it doesn't exist" is a fallacy. People will view you differently if an Orlanthi routinely uses a Kopis in Sartar, you will find it harder to make friends and influence people. When I got a Skoda back in 1999 I was laughed at, it was a real thing. It was a perfectly good car, at a good price, as good as the more expensive VW that I got after it, but I was subjected to genuine derision and mockery by certain friends and colleagues.

My point was not "it isn't extreme therefore it doesn't exist".  My point was that if even the extremists are not likely to take the issue seriously, who else will?  Sorry if you missed that.

As a real world historical footnote for those who may care, I found out that the Nazis went to a lot of trouble to bring back the Aurochs to the somewhat primeval Bialowiez˙a forest in Poland.  The breed are known as Heck Cattle today.  While they might look like aurochs, and may be descended from such animals like all modern cattle, they aren't in fact aurochs, obviously.

10 hours ago, davecake said:

Swords are also special in RQ for religious reasons. The distinction between curved and straight swords is not just about the details of how you attack with them, but the distinction is important for several cults.
Hence the RQG obsession with the kopis - which isn’t a historical kopis, too long, which also brings us back to the short sword vs broadsword issue. 

There are literally 2 things different in the stat blocks for the Kopis and the Broadsword, and that is allegedly that broadswords take 2 pts less Dex to use without penalty, and apparently the broadsword is CT, while the Kopis is S in terms of the type of damage they do.  This means that the broadsword is a slightly better weapon, as it is a little easier to use, and you can choose to either impale or slash on a special roll.  Shortswords are really just scaled down broadswords that do a bit less damage and are easier for small people to use according to the RQG rules.

Now we can make a big hoot about the religious differences, but Lunars aren't going to be cast from their cult for using a broadsword, anymore than an Orlanthi would be impested for using a a kopis.  Admittedly a Seven Mothers Rune Lord is required to know Kopis specifically, but the Orlanthi requirement is just a 1h sword.  Even Humakt doesn't care if you use a kopis or not in RQG. 

For this reason I think you might be over-stating the religious importance of swords a bit davecake.  It matters a little bit, but mainly to fanatics, and really their opinions are fundamentalist diehard and absurdist in equal measure, as that is what a well roleplayed extremist is supposed to be like.  I mean "you use a kopis therefore you are a traitor to Sartar" is not a very plausible argument, anymore than "you use a broadsword therefore you are a traitor to the Empire" would hold water in anything but a lune-struck kangaroo court of wanton military atrocities imo.

2 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

How would YOU handle such a situation?

It gets a lot easier if you start with a pair of identical twins as a foundation.

In terms of magic and abilities that would help maintain such a deception, gods like Trickster or Lanbril can use their magic to supplement a disguise skill.  Lanbril's Divination Block spell is especially useful, as the main threat of detection has to be from Divination.  It is also possible that a chaotic entity needs only to consume someone's likeness as in the CoC spell of the same name, if you want to get properly creepy. 

Sorcery is especially good at long lasting illusions that could be good at maintaining a different face and persona.  Given that you can potentially create a simple facial illusion that lasts weeks, seasons or years, Sorcerers have a large edge in this game imo.

Another possibility, but one without much rules foundation could be someone who developed a dissociative personality disorder as a result of being Mindblasted or Lune-struck by lunars.

One of the main problems with these sorts of ploys in Glorantha is that most people have initiation tattoos that mark their affiliations on their bodies.  These are hard to change or hide for extended periods of time.  This means that civilizations that don't use such methods are likely to have people who have non-tattooed bodies, and that will prove an advantage.  Technically, someone who failed their initiation and never received their tattoos might become useful as an infiltrator for that reason too.  Affiliation tattoos are very much like a modern ID, and you actually need a lot of knowledge and skill to falsify them.

On 5/8/2022 at 1:26 AM, Shiningbrow said:

Not really, unless you're defining "modern" as within the last few thousand years.

You're right.  Perhaps I should have said Classical?  I thought the sensibility was more modern in its inspiration, as I haven't found many good examples of cultures that engage in the sacrifice of their own body parts as part of religious rituals that weren't Classical or post-Classical, and yes, I class Christianity as a Classical religion.  Odin is an interesting example.  The Aztec priests and their "Crimson petals" are another pretty ghastly example.  I have heard of Greek city founders offering a finger in sacrifice to their city's new patron, but there doesn't seem to be much supporting info.  Interestingly, the oldest attributed inscription relating to Odin is about 200AD.  

At some stage I plan to run a CoC game in Stalin's Russia.  A!C! Rules will be quite handy for that I hope.

13 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

What about real sacrifice,  not just paying something you can easily afford?

There should be something for those times when what you want/need is going to *really * cost you...

That sort of sacrifice is a modern idea.  Gods don't care about one's angst anymore than you would care about an ant that chewed its own leg off to honor you.  Would you even notice?  Besides, does any society really want to encourage self-destructive mysticism, or should they reject it as the mentally aberrant behavior of masochists who say "Look how I hurt myself and my own interests for you, mighty deity X...You owe me..."  It's a dreadful form of hubris when you think about it. 

There are of course some exceptions to this...

A deity might send visions of an extreme sacrifice being required.  This gets a bit Old Testament, and may be a test of faith rather than a demand for that outcome, a la Abraham and Isaac.

In shamanic societies, some rituals may require the participant to undergo extreme torture in order to demonstrate the strength of their spirit and receive visions.

In mystical societies, (using a Hindu example here) you can perform severe austerities in order to bend the cosmos to your will, such as holding your hand above your head for a decade or more, and through this act of willpower, bend the cosmos and the gods themselves to do your bidding. Of course the gods don't like these power gamers, and will generally find reasons to destroy them.

On the whole, I suspect that the Gods are simple creatures who only want reasonable sacrifices.  If your boss is coming over for dinner they would prefer a nice lamb roast to eating your first born child... Mostly... Depending on the boss...😉 

9 hours ago, davecake said:

I think that’s a pretty controversial statement as it stands, considering their key role in the EWF and it’s rise and fall, but it would be quite ridiculous to say they have not featured heavily in the History of Dragon Pass. Their role is just not always highlighted in human histories. 

Controversial, perhaps, but the dragonewts took a back seat to humanity in the EWF even while fueling human adoption of the Dragon Path.  Great dragonewts already became dragons Before Time.  The ones that are left are mediocre creatures; Nietzsche's "the broken and the busted" of dragon-kind.  With a small portion of the same tools the dragonewts are heirs to, humans build a massive empire and achieve unparalleled progress on the Dragon Path in a short time.  It is highly likely that many of the higher ranks of the dragonewts today are actually humans who were reborn into the dragonewt cycle.

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

They participated in the creation of Osentalka, acted as mercenaries for Nysalor/Gbaji, helped build the Empire of the Wyrm's Friends, assisted the Golden Emperor Dragon when he ruled Dara Happa, took part in the Dragonkill, policed the Inhuman Occupation of Dragon Pass, performed the Dragonewt Dream, and blasted open the doors to the Big Rubble.

So, some quite heavy featuring to me.

Dragonewts literally took a back seat to humans and other races in every story you present, except for the Dragonewt's Dream.  Also, compare the number of stories in which dragonewts appear and compare it to the number of stories in which they play no part and you reach an understanding that dragonewts are a largely quiescent force in the world, as you would expect from somewhat mentally mediocre mystics.  The dragonewts were even a secondary force to humans in history during the EWF, when they sort of help out a bit in the beginning and then sit there while the humans take off running with what they know about their "new toy" draconic magic.  This shouldn't surprise anyone, as these are the remedial class of the dragonewts; the other more adept dragonewts have already moved thru the rebirths and become true dragons, while the ones left behind are still failing at tasks like figuring out the whole "eating" thing.

On 5/4/2022 at 9:09 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

Not sure that is in the correct thread but could you explain deeper ? I don’t see the difference (use words for a Frenchie without any philosophical background -or few-) 😝

Okay, the question is the difference between the Void and annihilation.

I draw your attention to Cults of Chaos page 11 (Cosmology)

"The Void unknowable, never knew.

The Mover touched and made touching, but never knew.

Silence woke, and wished up the world, and hoped to know.

Plasma sang and entered the world, and knew the world at last." 

The Void is one of the concepts of creation, formless beyond emptiness and indescribable.  Note there are 4 factors, and each is linked to a type of magic in Glorantha, with the Void being linked to the mystics.  You can go outside the Sky Dome, and hence "into the void" without being annihilated.  We might therefore consider the Void to be akin to the vacuum of space.  Annihilation what happens when a being is absorbed by chaotic monsters.  Allegedly they are consumed, body and spirit.  Now for a mystic, it may be that the states are somehow equivalent, but no other magical style can come back from annihilation.

13 hours ago, icebrand said:

Judoka here. I have no clue about fencing but feinting in judo is a basic skill, not something complicated high level athletes do (and >100% should be Panam level at least)

Like, you start training renraku waza at white belt!

Having done both too, yeah, a feint is a simple but classic move.  Not falling for a feint because you can read your opponent's posture and touch, now that's a technique.

18 hours ago, Jason Farrell said:

I would say yes, but not by roll, but rather just as narrative needs dictate (like if a character who is meant to play a major role in future events is otherwise going to be killed, and the GM doesn't have or doesn't want to create a suitable replacement)

This is about D.I.  Obviously everything is up to the GM and their tastes.  For my taste, I give every named NPC a chance to D.I. out of a situation where they are going to die, and have never regretted it.  I also don't fudge it.  The world is more interesting when you let the dice tell the story too imo.

On the other hand I also find it laudable when my players find a loophole to short circuit and wreck a scenario I have devised for them, whereas I know a lot of GMs quietly lose their sh*t about that sort of thing.  I don't mind unexpected things happening in my game and I find it broadens the story, but some GMs can't cope with that on the fly.

On 5/4/2022 at 12:51 AM, JRE said:

In a large temple, you would have ceremonies every day, but on Freezeday you will get the leftovers, cold mutton and flat beer, though a wise priest will make sure there is something fresh for Orlanth's portion. In Windsday you may well get a whole sheep in a firepit and most of the community will join, and depending on any associates involved, incense from Issaries, healing poultices applied from CA, and scribe services as well as some burnt papyrus from Lhankor Mhy. It is a ceremony, but it is also how a community joins together and supports its people.

In ancient Greece, only the fat and bones went to the gods:

Prometheus vs Zeus

So... Here's an ugly question...

NPCs get Divine Intervention?  Yea or Nay?

I definitely fall in the Yea camp.  It creates a sense of continuity in the world when the players recognize an NPC they had fought previously, but who D.I.-ed out of the situation when it went bad for them.  Obviously this encounter doesn't happen the next session (unless it needs to), and might take any turn the GM needs it to.  IMO recurring NPCs and players' interactions with them are crucial to making any RPG setting work.

22 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Don't overdo enemy magic. In my opinion (and there are others available) magic should be one of the things that differentiates PCs from NPCs. This will help speed up the mechanics and give you less to think about.

For my money it is crucial to have your NPCs use primarily the spirit spells that their cult teaches, with perhaps another few points of non-standard magic purchased from shamans etc.  This approach helps lend cults a certain series of regular responses which are in keeping with their place in the ecology, and makes them a bit predictable without making them utterly predictable.  As a rule of thumb, I suggest 1 point of Spirit magic per 10% weapon skill for an initiate, and Rune Levels have their whole CHA filled.

As to using RP, it is really all about the situation.  Most NPCs will use Heal Self if they aren't killed by a single blow, but most NPCs are low initiate level and will only have 3RP tops.  Rune Levels are supposed to be scary and should be scary to face in combat; they didn't get where they are by not recognizing a threat.

18 hours ago, icebrand said:

This is gonna be long, so stay a while and listen!

This was a good comment btw.  Long, but def the sort of thing I would point a new GM at.

18 hours ago, g33k said:

This is an interesting perspective; I think I'll go with "YGMV, and MGMV" but I wonder if you can cite the sources for this explanation?

OGWV.  As to sources, there are quite a few.  Everything from the Guide to Glorantha to Cults of Chaos to Dorastor etc.  For a long time I thought that everything outside the Sky Dome was Chaos, based on entries in Trollpak back in RQ2 days, and Glorantha was essentially a bubble of Order in a sea of Chaos.  Then when HQ came out, there was information regarding hero questing on and beyond the Sky Dome, and I was surprised to find out that beyond the Sky Dome there was Void.  Slowly I found and put the pieces together.  It is a small jigsaw puzzle but the pieces are hidden in several books. 

3 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Let's start with something:

1.  Motivate the player characters.  Help the players invest emotionally in the conflict and play their characters and their place in the world.  Only in wars or very dangerous places do fights "just happen" because different groups are about in the same place.

2. Work out the motives of their enemies.  Why are they there?  What do they want?  Are they actually enemies?

3.  Work out the tactics and responses of the enemies.

4.  Terrain/Setting.  The environment itself needs to have character.  There is often advantage to choosing and keeping a certain piece of ground.  Winners generally know how to use the terrain, and Sun Tzu has much to say about it, both literally and metaphorically if you need a quick primer.

5. GM's need to help players set the scene in their minds and describe things somewhat cinematically.  The sights, the sounds, the smells, the effects of blows etc.  Their language shouldn't be overly flowery and their descriptions should aim for brevity, accuracy and emotional impact, a terse journalistic to-and-fro of battle narrative so that everything is said to adequately paint the picture without slowing down the flow of the fight.

6.  Where possible, train the players making an attack to roll 2d10+1d20+weapon damage dice+damage modifier die altogether so that you as GM only have to roll the defensive choice of the enemy.

On 5/3/2022 at 10:51 AM, g33k said:

Instead, "Glorantha" is the entire universe, and "Chaos" is what's outside... barring those traces of Chaos, and "Chaotic things," tht escape into Glorantha. 

I thought pretty much as you do now g33k, but Glorantha is different to that.  Outside Glorantha is the Void, merely an absence of things, where the dragons go to be mystical and make new worlds or something.  In fact, the source of Chaos is the Chaosium, which was once the Primal Plasma and source of all life.  The Primal Plasma was corrupted by the Unholy Trio, of course, and now there are no new species in Glorantha as a result.  It is the Chaosium which is responsible for the emergence of Chaos into the world.  While there may be chaotic life in the void, it isn't a major source.  As to the connection between the Void and the annihilation one experiences when eaten by the Hydra or the Crimson Bat, that is actually annihilation, not the Void.  Interestingly, Draconic mystics, and possibly other mystics can return from annihilation, and some even find it a desirable state.

20 hours ago, icebrand said:

Dont we NEED sanity rules?

What happens when the PCs enter a chaos nest, and find human remains decorating the place?

What happens when your friend, who fought side by side by you in countless battles, gets horribly mutilated and murdered in front of your eyes?

What happens when you come face to face with an ancient terror???

Does any of you guys use SAN? If so, what rules do you use?

I dismiss this.  You speak of seeing friends mutilated etc.  I point out that these are bronze age people who hands-on kill their own animals, often more than once a week, and have regularly witnessed violence in a way we pampered 21st century bookish toffs can barely comprehend.  Romans for example used to pay to see, hear and smell people being murdered in public spectacles, and would go home thoroughly delighted by what we would regard as a ghastly and inhuman spectacle that would likely drive some to vomit or otherwise lose control of themselves.  Yes, the Gloranthans may have PTSD, but that's great!  It helps you go berserk when you next see chaos, dropping into a glazed trance where you find it easier to re-enact the violence of previous experiences upon fresh victims.  By foregoing sanity rules, we allow players to choose to let their character be heroic, or run away at the player's discretion.  If players get struck by mindblast or lunes they will go mad.  We have rules for that.  If they meet an ancient terror, they need to choose whether they have the grit to stay and fight, or will take to their heels like so many before them.  Yes, there may be insane NPCs, but PCs are made of sterner stuff imo.  They have enough to contend with without adding mental illness to the pot.

On 5/1/2022 at 12:47 PM, Ironwall said:

So as you adventure you may go to other lands such as tarsh, Prax esrolia ect and you being an adventurer go to the local temple to your god to give due worship, but these are strange foreign people who while worshiping the same gods as you probably do so in a different way or view your god from a different perspective so I have to ask how do the various homelands view various gods. To start I'd like to know how orlanth, ernalda, storm bull, daka fal are viewed/ worshipped in esrolia and prax in contrast to sartar. However don't confine this thread to just those gods feel free to say what you know or even theorize on possible differences across the entire breadth of the cube.

This raises an interesting idea for me.  I think, within the hero questing environment that territory really matters.  We think of the Before Time period of Glorantha, but what would a world without time look like?  My answer is that the Gods have an area of operation that was open to them Before Time, and this is where their myths take place, and after a fashion, these myths took place all at once.  Humans superimpose a temporal narrative onto the stories to create a continuity that doesn't actually exist.  How else can someone perform the same Hero Quest 3 times, and then do a hero quest for the same god that happened logically before the previous 3?  If there were a proper temporal structure to hero questing, then no hero quester would perform the quests more than one time each, and they would need to be completed in a chronological order.

How does this apply to the question Ironwall has?  Well, I think that Gloranthan deities take on very different characteristics in different places.  We get a little bit of a sniff of this when we look at the cult of Indrodar Greydog from ToRM #19.  Indrodar Greydog is a hero subcult of Humakt that teaches the release zombie spell as a special associate pick.  You can't get this spell from any other Humakt temple but the Greydog Clan Temple of the Lismelder Tribe.  There, beside the Upland Marsh, Indrodar became sufficiently at-one with Humakt that a new spell came into being designed for the problems of the people in the area.  I suspect that there are many other subcults that are potentially very regional and provide special magic to a specific clan or tribe who knows their secrets.  Obviously these secrets can potentially be traded, but consider that a clan's specific interpretation of how to complete a given hero quest may well vary considerably from that of another.  The idea of associated subcults is important imo.