jeffjerwin

There's a Heort-ski Vale on the south side of the Marzeel near the Styrman Hills. I think this might have been imagined as part of Heort's magic - and therefore a part of ancestral knowledge to the Hendriki...

Some more notes on Broyan and Vingkot, covering the period from c.1613 to his death in 1625 (and beyond): (backtracking a bit to start tho:) Jeff Richard's article on the Dundealos in Hearts in Glorantha states that there is a legend that Urox raised the Storm Hills to separate his quarreling friends Vingkot and Tada. This implies that Vingkot's marriage to Tada's daughter(s) was perhaps a peace weaving, and this adds to the likelihood that "The Marriage of Vingkot" might be a HQ that brings peace between Praxians and Heortlings. The cult of Vela claims credit for arranging the marriage of Vingkot and the Summer Wife (BoHM, p.163). "Onetree" is perhaps the meeting spot (BoHM, p.75). To ideally heroform Vingkot, Broyan ought to marry at least one Praxian woman (at least temporarily). In 1613-5 'Beti' Leika of the Colymar joined Broyan's war band. c.1616: Jane Williams suggests that the Volsaxi king was slain and Kallyr (and presumably Leika) helped Broyan take the throne. This however could take place as early as 1613. Broyan's accession if at the earlier date took place perhaps before Starbrow's Rebellion, so he would be ideally situated to harbour the fugitives. Becoming a king is a pivotal moment in Broyan's "hero forming" and therefore is highly likely to have been done c.1616-7: from the Digest, by Jeff Richard: "High King Broyan's companions would have challenged the fame of the great kings of old. There were five kings in his service: Kallyr Starbrow, the famed warrior queen, Leika the Archer, the exiled queen of the Colymar, and three kings of the Volsaxi - Daransen, Tarkalor, and Orldaran. Three great war leaders were in his service: Harasarana Red Hair, Manabrar the Ram and Orngerin Thundercape. Vestalanth, Voice of Whitewall, spoke for Broyan; Dastal Firebreath fought for Broyan; and Haadaral, Lord of the Bridge, guarded access to Whitewall. Three great priests were there - Darlarnst, High Priest of the Volsaxi, Ferernalda, High Priestess of Ernalda, and Dinvara the heartless Chalana Arroy priestess. Even Orvanlanth the Wild Man, Aventus Hilljumper,who sees everything, and Korlmhy the Troublesome Poet, was there. Even the three famed foreigners were there - Gindaki, Champion of the Kitori, Dasvu the Urox Lord, and Kestongari, the traitor wizard. Not since High King Tarkalor has any king kept such a household." [http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd/2006.03/2244.html] 1617: Orngerin the Sophisticate dies (following the chaos of his master's dismemberment) and Broyan defeats the guardians left by Belintar to prevent a king of the Hendriki from being crowned. 1619-21: Siege of Whitewall. In 1621 we have the Windstop. Broyan would have attempted the summoning of Orlanth via sacrifices like his hero: "In the end, Vingkot offered sacrifices to Orlanth and the Great God returned from his wanderings. Orlanth threw his thunderbolts at the lawless gods who had gathered at his court and chased off the worst of them. He then submitted himself to Ernalda and took his place beside he." (BoHM, p.81). This of course won't work on its own. In 1621 Broyan and his followers appeared at Bullflood/ford and raised a rebellion against the Lunars. My thought is that they used the Hendriki routes through the Storm Hills and the Verge to find Hendrik's refuge on the south side of the Print after the fall of Whitewall. Assassins, traitors, and spies sent to kill Broyan all fail. The On Jorri are said to have been joined to the Orlanthi, though they were from Peloria, by Vingkot (whose mother was one of them). [BoHM, p.75] The "Cleansing of the Durevings" legend from the era of Kodig might have been utilised to re-convert Esvulari or, even more likely, Lunarised clans. (See BoHM, pp.85-6) c. 1623: Liberation of Esrolia period. The Vingkotlings defeated the boar-worshipping Mraloti (Harandings), who became vassals/members of their community. This sort of action might be applicable to the war with Graymane and the Manirian Mralotling descended tribes, or to battle with the Aramites in Dragon Pass. In 1625 Broyan's death is linked to the Kitori, though Vingkot's death at Stormfall was at the hands of a minor Chaos godling (BoHM, 104). The nature of Broyan's death suggests a geas. "In Kethaela, King Broyan marched north with a small volunteer army. Among the Kitori, a little bright light was snuffed out, and a demon which had many sharp mouths was let out of its skin. It sought vengeance, and fell upon the army of King Broyan while they slept. The king could not keep it away, because he had betrayed the City of Wonders, and he was killed there, with his army." (KoS 2e, p.125) The generally held interpretation is that Broyan failed at the Shadow Sacrifices. I believe that Broyan, as a "Vingkotling", mistakenly held himself above the oaths of Heort and Ezkankekko. One could reconstruct a geas along the lines of: "You will not fall by a friend, nor by a foe. You will die of a biting thing, but it will be impossible to see, and have neither mouth nor face. The thing that slays you will come on you unawares, and you will not know its errand, but it will not be bootless murder, but lawful feud." 1673?: Argrath when to Broyan's Hall to hide when the Lunars recovered Dragon Pass and set out from there on his Lightbringers' Quest. c.1679: The battle of Dead Heroes - Broyan returns: probably involves the "Eternal Ring of the Vingkotlings"

Averoigne Revisited The map from Worlds of Cthulhu 2 shows a region 40 miles east-west and 50 miles north-south. This is rather smaller than the actual province, which is about four times larger. If one identifies the Isoile, the principal river of Averoigne, with the Sioule and Sioulet rivers that flow into the Allier from the far side of the Puy du Drôme range, the actual equivalent region in our world would seem to be the western part of the arrondissement of Riom. This was a part of the Duchy of Auvergne by the 16th century, a royal demense. It is partially in the seigneurie or baronnie of Combrailles in Basse-Auvergne by the 18th century. The map on the left shows Combrailles within the Massif Central georegion. The name Isoile seems to be a blend of Issoire, in the southern part of Auvergne, with the river Sioule in the northwest part of the province. The Auvergne derives from the Celtic civitas or tribe of the Arverni or Arvernesi. Averoigne derives from the Averones, a fictional version of the same name; indeed ‘Averones’ is a likely enough spelling variation on Averni. Auvergne (mediaeval Latin Alvernia) has a likeness to Avernus, the Roman underworld in sound and certainly Averoigne has its actual resemblances as well. The WoC map shows the Isoile Marsh at the south end of the region. In fact there were marshes at the confluence of the Sioule and the Allier to the northeast. The Isoile is stated on several occasions to flow into the Loire, which should mean a roughly northern course, given its mountainous terrain – a characteristic of south central France. In ‘The End of the Story’ Perigon and the forest of Averoigne appear to be somewhere between Moulins (in the department of Allier, and former capital of the Duchy of Bourbon) and Tours. As can be seen by the map (attached below) (Senex, 1719), a little before the era of the story (late 18th century), there is a post-route to Tours from Moulins that follows the Allier and then the Loire, and round-about route that cuts across to Limoges from Clermont. The terrain north of Moulins is quite unsuitable as a placement for Averoigne, so we may tentatively posit that the protagonist chose the somewhat less direct route, which would place him crossing the Sioule – that is, the Isoile – at ‘Pont Gibaut’. This also suggests that the wood and Perigon are situated beside and on the western side of the Sioule/Isoile. The only real canonical clue to the course of the Isoile is found in ‘The Colossus of Ylourgne’: ‘Undaunted, he set forth on foot, carrying only a dagger and a wallet of food. He timed his wanderings so that he would reach Ylourgne at nightfall in the rising of a full moon. Much of his journey lay through the great, lowering forest, which approached the very walls of Vyones on the eastern side and ran in a sombre arc through Averoigne to the mouth of the rocky valley below Ylourgne. After a few miles, he emerged from the mighty wood of pines and oaks and larches; and thenceforward, for the first day, followed the river Isoile through an open, well- peopled plain. He spent the warm summer night beneath a beech-tree, in the vicinity of a small village, not caring to sleep in the lonely woods where robbers and wolves — and creatures of a more baleful repute — were commonly supposed to dwell. At evening of the second day, after passing through the wildest and oldest portion of the immemorial wood, he came to the steep, stony valley that led to his destination. This valley was the fountain-head of the Isoile, which had dwindled to a mere rivulet. In the brown twilight, between sunset and moonrise, he saw the lights of the Cistercian monastery; and opposite, on the piled, forbidding scarps, the grim and rugged mass of the ruinous stronghold of Ylourgne, with wan and wizard fires flickering behind its high embrasures. Apart from these fires, there was no sign of occupation; and he did not hear at any time the dismal noises reported by the monks.’ To summarize: Vyones was bordered on the east by the forest of Averoigne, which stretched to the valley of Ylourgne, where the Isoile river emerged. It is two days to the east of Vyones. Hence, as the Isoile flows beneath Vyones, it must head roughly east. Averoigne has to major towns: Ximes and Vyones. The first has a bishop and the latter an archbishop. These usually are characteristics of towns and cities founded by the Romans. Vyones, the Roman Avionium, and Ximes, Latin Simaesis, should both be situated on a Roman road. The map above is from an 18th century map of Classical Gaul. The principal settlements marked at Eborolacum (Ebreuil), ‘Fines’ and Ubimum (which actually has never been identified). It is tempting therefore to identify ‘Fines’ with the similar-sounding Simaesis or Ximes. If ‘Fines’/Ximes (Pontaumur) is twenty-five miles from Vyones, Vyones might be associated with St-Gervais-d’Auvergne (formerly Mongolt) on the Sioule. The town of Pontgibaud (the map’s Ubimum) is so named because the Roman road from Clermont to Ahun crossed the Sioule here. At Pontaumur the same road crossed the Sioulet, the western branch of the Sioule. Pontaumur is close to Combraille, the eponym of the Combrailles region. Vyones is said [Wikipedia, find citation] to be in the northern part of Averoigne, with Ximes in the south. ‘At that time, the year of our Lord, 1138, Vyones was the principal town of the province of Averoigne. On two sides the great, shadow-haunted forest, a place of equivocal legends, of loups-garous and phantoms, approached to the very walls and flung its umbrage upon them at early forenoon and evening. On the other sides there lay cultivated fields, and gentle streams that meandered among willows or poplars, and roads that ran through an open plain to the high châteaux of noble lords and to regions beyond Averoigne.’ ‘The Maker of Gargoyles’ Tim Kirk’s map in The Freedom of Fantastic Things, however, situates Ximes and and Vyones fairly close to each other, roughly west and east with the Isoile bending north and then due east between them. The source of the Isoire in all analyses of Averoigne’s geography. is the Collines d’Est, which correspond to the mountains separating the Sioule valley from the Allier. WoC however makes clear that there should be about 25 miles between the two communities, with the Inn of Bonne-Joissance between them. Between the two is the Bois d’Auvergne, an ancient forest.

Well, I've worked out that I'll have to wait until 2028 to publish. (and if anyone wants me to do math on whether a certain Mythos story is definitively out of copyright, I've done the research, so let me know and I'll help) I will be sharing my geographic notes, however. Watch this this space, soonish.

I'm looking at holding off on publication until this is clarified.

For purposes of comparison, if we go by the lifetime of the author(s) rule for excluding elements from CoC adventures in the repository, we should also be not be including the Hounds of Tindalos or Chaugnar Faugn (Frank Belknap Long died in 1994 - as did Robert Bloch), all of Derleth's creations (Ithaqua, Cyaegtha, etc.) and anything by authors still alive: Eddy C. Bertin is notable among them. Robert E. Howard's work is highly problematic in terms of copyright. That leaves Lovecraft's own creations: Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, Cthulhu, the Dreamlands, Nyarlathotep, etc. And, it appears, Robert W. Chambers' creations.

It looks as if most of CAS' Weird Tales stories (in their original published form, typos and cuts included) are out of copyright, at least for those issues that never had their copyright status renewed. This would include The Maker of Gargoyles and The Colussus of Ylourgne. However, in the UK, the copyright on the stories lasts until 2031. What a mess. I guess p.2 of the Keeper's Book should be my guide... Tsathoggua appears on p.326. Gaspard du Nord appears on p.226. "Averoigne" and the "Chateau des Faussesflames" appears in Hazel Heald and Lovecraft's "Out of the Aeons" (Weird Tales, 1935) - she died in 1961, the same year as CAS. Does anyone know the basis for World of Cthulhu's use of Averoigne?

Well, it was written for a 3PP Pathfinder publisher which went on to have financial issues... I still have the manuscript but would rather sit on it for now. The CoC conversion would be streamlined since it doesn't need XP benchmarks, and the monsters would be subtler. On the nomenclature: My main issue is the somewhat incoherent nature of CAS' copyrights. De facto, they're controlled by Arkham House (in the US only) but references to CAS' Averoigne by Lovecraft have crept into the Public Domain. CAS' stepchildren inherited the copyrights by all appearances, but not every published story had its copyright renewed. Because of the Sunny Bono Act, much of CAS' oeuvre is seemingly protected. If I publish using a quasi-real Auvergne, there are, however, analogous locations I can use that can be revised "back" to CAS' setting names fairly easily. The wording of the Repository license however allows the use of setting material in the the main 7e rules. Campbell, Lumley (and others)'s creations are called out as not available for Repository material. The defining line may depend on whether the rights were negotiated with Arkham House or separately with the authors... Now, whether Lovecraft's mention of places in his OOC or Arkham House claimed copyrighted material is a work around I have yet to finesse.

I've always played it as the former: it is discarded along with the original champion.

Especially given that L and R are similar sounds that aren't differentiated in some of our RW languages. It's almost like it's the same name as pronounced by different peoples... What does it mean that "Howling Void" - a Predark demon was fashioned into Harana Ilor ("the first harp") after it was slain by Umath. [King of Sartar, p.51] ...? Wow, that's weird. Harana Ilor is also the mother of Issaries by Larnste, which makes Issaries Orlanth's uncle.

Yes, I was making a small joke.

Many years ago I wrote an adventure (called "Monkshood") set in a pastiche of Averoigne. I'm contemplating rewriting it for the Repository and I'm pondering the copyright rules regarding it. As I see it, I can set it in the real 16th century Auvergne without a hitch, and with "a sense of the Averoigne" (i.e., Sadoque, etc.) without being specific - or are Repository titles covered by Chaosium's agreement with Arkham House? In which case I could use the fictive names and locales. Also I welcome any thoughts about the basic idea: it's a werewolf and witchcraft story set in the Massif Central, based on folklore and history. It has a hint of the mythos, but isn't completely overt. There's a war raging around, but not so much in the province itself - I'm thinking I'll include notes on setting it in the 1940s and 1790s as well. There's a ruined castle, a druidic barrow, depraved monks, a hallucinatory hell-wood, and a necromancer. Cheers - Jeff

Yes. I find it instructive - if "wrong" - to examine Gloranthan deities and peoples from a Terrestrial anthropological and historical perspective. I do think that in some cases deities gelled during the Silver and Dawn Ages from complementary gods (particularly suspicious are gods with a plethora of names - Chalana Arroy, Lhankor Mhy, Indlas Somer, etc) or even were "healed" from being damaged by Chaos - a "lawful" complement to Thanatar, if you will - by merging with other "dead" gods.So they may have multiple origins, multiple contradictory histories, and personality conflicts - depending on geography, local mythology, and what the devotee brings to the rite and story.

Isn't Mallia not only only peripherally of Chaos, but also incorporated into Time (unlike other Chaos gods?) - disease is now a part of Gloranthan life. And Mallia doesn't even have the Chaos Rune - she's got Darkness and Death.

I think that Chalana Arroy is hardly likely to be a maiden myself but is likely a single mother. My Chalana Arroy is sometimes a bit cranky and has no time for B*llshit (hence her power over Urox) but also has a pretty solid core of empathy compassion: otherwise why does she heal Chaos? Why does she have pity for Eurmal? I think she in fact embodies the comprehension of suffering. It is possible, however, that Arroin is adopted, which would be healing another kind of loss.

Well... Chalana Arroy is actually neutral toward Chaos. Sorta like Humakt...

Huh, that's interesting. I have, however, visited the birthplace of Zeus in Crete, and it's profoundly numinous, but I don't doubt that other places where he was born are also sacred. It's my belief that Orlanth sometimes is born at the World Mountain (note he grows up at Umath's Camp there and goes north to Dragon Pass) and sometimes at Kero Fin, and they can't be completely disentangled. I think Kero Fin is as much a fragment of the Spike as Ernalda, Asrelia, and Voria are the same entity viewed at different ages. So there's nothing to counter indicate that Inora was not independently born on the peaks of several mountains - notably the "Top of the World" - that is, she came into existence when the world grew colder during the Early Storm Age/when Umath crashed into Earth/when the Sun was wounded/died/when Winter first came, wherever and whenever that moment was. I can imagine her young and joyful when she first flurried into existence, until heart froze during the Great Darkness, and she was driven away from her kin by Eurmal's gift. Of course Yelmalio/Antirius/Elmal/the Priest, as the "patriarchal male" is in fact a grave danger to her wildness.

This needs attention but I think Kralorela should not be a China expy. It should feel like Bronze Age China in the same way that Sartar feels like the Halstatt Culture; hearkening but when you look deep, quite different. So: free use of Chinese monsters and folklore, adapted - like we have in Dragon Pass with European legend - but just as innovative and strange as the Pass and Prax, as well...

That is so true. Except for floods and fires. It's best to keep them in a sealed vault, filled with inert gas.

Yep, already changed a few in my campaign.

My hands actually shake. Painting is pretty arduous, but I use breath control to still them for a moment. I started painting minis in the mid-80s when I was a kid, so there's also a lot of experience, but I can't do the incredibly detailed stuff I used to. I have an entire collection of barbarian villagers up next for when we construct the stead diorama...

If any one's interested: the Kora is mini is a modified (heavy addition of green putty) version of Reaper's "Spirit of Autumn" - the alynx was the animal companion that went with Lini, the Pathfinder iconic druid, with putty used to give her a ruff and ear tufts (I couldn't bear to snip off the tail, so Fluffy is an unusual specimen for her kind), and Chief Rolan is a slightly modified version of Valeros, these also being Reaper minis. I modeled tiny flowers growing behind Kora's feet as well.

You may depend on me for mythic over-reach.

Prior to the shattering of the Spike/World Mountain Time/Entropy did not exist as a dominant force. Everything happened in "story time" order. Or that's my read of the situation.

My daughter wants to change that, of course, given her obsession with Elsa... Inora is interesting because of the Ice Queen motif in not only fairy tales but in popular culture. This oughta be made into a detailed hero quest for play.