Khanwulf

Work for it by spending glory points, hiring a tailor/hairdresser, and investing into jewelry. Securing magic APP jewelry and the like. Making it a priority. I mean if you set out to make your lady a pretty influencer then it's not at all hard to hit those levels rather quickly. Which is fine I suppose since you want to make a splash early enough that our lady can secure herself in relationships.... But: wacking everyone in sight with your Medusa-aura of love is a damn weird thing to hand over to players even with that sort of investment. I'm actually pretty down on this mechanic and inclined to gloss over it except for a) PKs and b) NPKs who can and should have an indeterminate reaction to the appearance. Everyone else can be scripted around the core concept: high APP is very attractive, desirable and an indication of honor and righteousness. The reaction to get close to such APP and desire to own it will vary in direct proportion to the score. Feelings of jealousy and suspicion in those of the same sex (assuming opposite attraction) will rise in the same proportion. Alternative: sure Ygraine and Guen have high base APP, but they also have the wealth and means to invest in their presentation and keep it up. Assume they have access to staff, maximum jewelry and magic geejaws sufficient to push them even higher at all times. Perhaps the point of transfixing aura is more on the order of APP 40? That would be where the d20 system breaks, after all. --Khanwulf

And/or tailor. And keep in mind that some jewelry is magical and gives APP bonuses. It's not too hard mechanically to take a very pretty APP and crank it up into Ygraine-category. This is a reason to make the stat's impact more flexible than the other physical attributes. Though awarding Glory for flat APP at time of event is still ok, as it will only add up over time. --Khanwulf

Ah, but here's the thing: what we're talking about when touching "lady X helps with something I want done" is a specific applied bonus. But the motivation for lady X helping need not be an analogous incident--just because you helped with matchmaking doesn't mean that's all you can ask lady X for. Maybe you would better use her help to get someone out of prison? Or lean on a feast decision? Or send over a cloth merchant caravan? Or persuade so-and-so to stop spreading malicious rumors? Really, scratching someone's back is very general and shouldn't be a straightjacket for the returned favor--an identical return is just lazy shorthand for the magnitude involved ("you got me coffee yesterday so I get you coffee today"). I'll use an example from literally half an hour ago: a colleague got me coffee, and I returned the favor by providing a detailed verbal analysis of a document I didn't have to comment on. This provides her a +Y bonus on her report-writing check later this week. So. Y can be used on a variety of things and I'd suggest that it be applied liberally to just about any table check. (E.g. marriage table.) This means Y should not be large: +1 - +3 maybe, and perhaps tied to a skill check by the relevant NPC. There's tracking involved in that, but the card could have such details on it if desired. Cards are "held" by ladies/wives, and "bestowed" on men/husbands at their discretion; so during a tournament or court the lady can "bestow their favor [card]" on a knight, who then uses it for a bonus on the tournament table or courtly check or feast roll or whatnot. ... Ok, so what is ON a card from a Book of Courts and Tourneys? Probably a situation that the character can participate in that calls for a skill and/or passion check. Maybe a string that can constitute intrigue/plotting. Maybe stats for a knight/challenger. --Khanwulf

So there's certainly an inclusion of the logic already. Let me circle back to another aspect of APP that shows up in two characters in particular, and I've wondered about: automatic Amor generation for Ygraine and Guen. These are two of the prettiest ladies of the Arthurian arc. They have high APP--upper 20s (my books are not in front of me)--but we don't know if the mechanic outlined applies to ALL high-APP characters, or just these two "special flowers", so to speak. At which point does the fantastic, passion-generating attraction kick in? Does it really wack everyone who beholds the character from the stable-boy to the king? And this is important if APP is going to be placed in its position as a useful stat, because there are bonuses to it during creation and you will find PKs/PLs putting effort into raising it if it benefits them. What makes sense to me is to tie APP to bonuses (say, (APP-15)/2) to social skills and Glory gain from use of said skills. This gives characters with high APP reason to exercise their gifts as often as they can. Think about it: if you're good with a sword you'll look for application of that, if you're good with a face you use that. If both, then you're awesome! (And flexible.) --But most characters have to specialize to some extent. (Note that in the sources the handsomest men in Arthur's court include himself, Bedivere, and Kay, among a few others. I don't recall Lancelot being assigned such a place.) --Khanwulf

Note the passions of the dead character that are/were 16+, note the skills that are/were 16+. When the descendent acts or attempts to act in accordance with those passions, check the [kami's] passion or skill and if successful add a +1 to the descendant's check. This should only occur if the character has shown filial devotion and respect for ancestors, or if you [the kami] think they really need the help to avoid family dishonor. --Khanwulf

"Keep this card as the Lady's Favor. Expend the Lady's Favor to provide a +Y bonus or -Y penalty to one die roll." Vary Y according to the magnitude of the resolved situation. Obviously you could use a Lady's Favor on tournament rolls, assuming you're not just playing through the contests. It could also, per wording, be used to affect another PK or NPK's roll. Explaining exactly how that occurs is a matter of role-playing, but the point is the Lady intervenes as requested and interferes for your benefit. This is wandering over into a "Book of Courts and Tourneys"... which is not a bad thing mind you. --Khanwulf

Yes, a kind of bid system, where the wives can intervene and provide supportive bonuses (or penalties--that their husbands may or may not find out about... Intrigue!). If another lady counter-bids then you have intrigue in play as well as whatever skill the wife is using, and the possibility of Hate (maybe... "Rival"?) passions developing that can affect later knightly reactions. "I'd really like to help you but you know how she hates your sister-in-law...." "Yeah... maybe we ask the Earl if we can host a joint feast at Sarum?" Ladies in court get Glory for accomplishing these kinds of things as well, which directly translates of course into courtly prestige and bonuses to making other actions. You could back it all up with a Court Events Deck of matters that can be dealt with by ladies and decided with their influence on knights/men. I mean, sure there's always the opportunity to get brutish and duel your way "out" of trouble, but that can and should only lead to larger issues down the road. And yes, it can even impact the childbirth table. I mean if you have an excellent relationship with your wife she's going to be more interested in providing heirs versus pursuing other distractions. Or... providing distractions. --Khanwulf PS. Can we tell I'm fond of deck mechanics? But you could just roll on tables and refer to paragraphs for events as easily, and that would let you segregate events by type (of, say, the six areas mentioned above) if called for.

Let's admit it: we're all thinking Python when it comes to marriage. Anyway, for a "wife game" you have to account for influence (literally the exercise of power through influence instead of authority) in different domains: household, county court, king's court, family, allies, husband. You could have the wife card game develop these and then depending on husband relationship they could be spent on things that help him (the knight). Or, they could be spent on things that help her if that relationship isn't strong enough (you'd not know which until drawn on). Hitch here is that activities that increase husband relationship with wife take her time away from building other areas, as well as his time and money. This is expensive. --Khanwulf

Shout out as well to Ikabodo's wife table, which is sufficiently different in mechanics and results that it deserves a comparing look.

Oh good highlight! I didn't have these, and that's being fixed now. I was actually thinking more along the lines of a book that fills in the culture and practices of the day, guiding players and GMs alike to a greater understanding of the tales and setting. All with tables and tools of course.

It's things like this that could go into a Arthurian Britain Gazetteer, explaining how the culture and lands work, and all the myriad differences that make the setting more than Sword & Sorcery with extra knightings. Eventually we may have a collection. --Khanwulf PS. "Eventually" isn't long when Atgxtg gets cranking, it seems....

The only time a roll should net you that much land is when Gorlois' head is following it across the table. And that happens once. Under very specific circumstances. --Khanwulf

Well lets be clear: kill"rebellious peasantry" (i.e. bandits) and Saxons, at will. In fact, killing foreign raiders is kinda expected. Arresting bandits and turning them over to the local lord is expected, but generally he won't mind if you just kill bandits caught in the act. Generally. It would be considered almost insulting to treat peasantry with the same honor that a knight would show to other knights, however a recognized thegn in a Saxon band could be extended such courtesy by particularly gallant knights. Most will just laugh at him, however. The age of chivalry's flower comes after Badon, when Saxons are not going to be doing much unless they are also, you know, bandits. Armies: if yon army failed to notice yours marching up, it's totally not your fault and you can finish drawing up your line of battle and/or arranging a preemptive charge. The proper thing to do when you see you've been out-maneuvered at this scale is to withdraw to defensive terrain, or just take your licks. Running away is acceptable but not wise when facing cavalry. Do keep in mind that "drawing up a line of battle" could take a good hour, depending, so "surprise" is a relative term, there. --Khanwulf

I for one thank you for taking one for the team, and dub thee "Knight of the Vintners!" May your SAN recover, in time....

Exactly: they'll come in, take whatever food items aren't nailed down, some valuables if they can find them (such as iron tools), a few females... and then move on. Either eating the forage or hauling it back to the boats. When the boats are full they have to leave. A malicious raid burns things as well in order to make the point that it's cheaper to pay. More thoughtful raiding amounts to sudden and unexpected tax collection. "No one expects the Saxon tax-man! Ha!" --Khanwulf

It may be useful to consider the purpose of the fortified home (manor, castle) was to protect the personal property of the lord long enough to demand a siege, at which point raiders would have to risk 1) the concentration of responding forces, 2) lack of food, 3) disease. Staying on the move means that a raiding party sweeps through fast enough that concentrating forces is challenging and they can forage, plunder and keep camp clean. Most of the time the noble family would retreat into their fortification and wait--if they could salley against the raid that would help, but probably lacked the forces to do serious damage. They would, however, keep the raid itself nervous and moving--covering ground but probably not taking everything of value. So in Salisbury you could have a raid in force appear and sweep through much (but not all of course) of the county before leaving again, if the Countess and her knights are not able to respond in sufficient force. The moment of vulnerability comes when the raid slows under the weight of its plunder, and knights are able to catch it or maneuver to force a real fight. --Khanwulf

In the book Saxons! the cultural line is drawn that among the Germanics the proper way to handle loot/prisoners was to turn them over to your chief (who might then pass them on up to the one in charge of the battle). Then, the loot got divided as the chief showed his generosity for all to see. After all, can't be generous if you got nothing to give away, right? This implied to me that British knights got to keep their personal prisoners--who might be escorted from the field by squires after honorably surrendering, and could only be expected to surrender valuable prisoners when their lords "pulled rank" somewhat irregularly or as a show of loyalty. And yes, it's a huge source of income. I've done it exactly once so far and it involved a baron, so was very happy the as-yet-unknighted PKs were obligated to fork over the loot to their chief! --Khanwulf

Of course a product like this would not be for everyone: nor is the Book of Battle, or of Feasts. These are specific aspects of KAP taken and blown out with details and mechanics that a given table may find extraneous. Or, exactly what they needed to breathe life into. Feasts were a hugely important aspect of noble life at the time--as were hunts. Hunting served both as entertainment and as a means to demonstrate competency in marital skills while bringing back needed meat for the feasts. In the sources hunting happens quite a bit, with some significant stories following from them. Ultimately if you're plotting out expansion books, you could do Battle, Feasts, Beasts (hunting) and Tournaments, and cover the social activities of knights thoroughly with optional expansions (including killing each other). Back to beasts: * This would be a great place to discuss horse coloring, temperament variations, rarity and cost - something like how Ikabodo addresses it in his fantastic Oath of Crows campaign page. * If you're doing cards, then each card could provide a picture, statblock, common area/terrain, page reference, and hunting challenge/event with tests -- idea being that the cards double as events and you don't know what you're hunting until you spot something (the next card's animal?). * Also the book to cover animal training, for exotic pets and the like. Of course the training is actually done by hired services, so that should be mentioned from Entourage. --Khanwulf

Well there should always be trails at least between settlements/manors. Keep in mind that if you go off-road you're 1) crossing someone's farmland/pastureland/forest reserve and they may have words to say about that and the damage you do, and 2) traveling on soft ground with great risk of burrowing animals taking out your horse's leg, or slipping while navigating a bank, or ditch or tree roots, or whatever. If you're taking the usual oxcart then that will get bogged down in short order. There's a reason the Romans built roads. --Khanwulf

Yeah it probably is. I mean you could define a decent feature list and estimate wordcount. That could be enough for the Chaosium to decide if its worth sourcing text and doing a KS? --Khanwulf

I'll second that: a Book of the Hunt would be extremely useful for breathing the same life into hunting that Book of Feasts did for ... um, feasting. In fact, you could apply the same card mechanics if you wanted to. Then, jazz the book up with a bestiary, discussion of the role of meat acquisition and conservation in noble society, and horses. End with a few hunting mini-adventures. That would be a product well worth the money. --Khanwulf

Thanks Morien and Atgxtg! Instead of cluttering this post with reference quotes I'll just dig in: SIRES does address many of the setup issues with Uther, and lays the foundation for his disagreement with Gorlois. My Pendragon will vary: I want to make Gorlois younger, roughly Ambrosius' age, and contemporary expatriate in Brittany. The two were quite close, making Uther the jealous younger brother. Ygraine I've already introduced differently, in 467, so I'm not going to walk that back but it creates a rivalry story between Ambrosius and Gorlois for her hand--and in which she ultimately (given her head by her father, King of Galvoie) chooses Gorlois because he will "be hers entire, while as queen of the High King she will be but one rose amongst the thorns." Uther, who never actually meets her during this period, further hates Gorlois for refusing to bow out of what he thinks should be Ambrosius' kingly perogative. If --and I've not decided fully yet-- I send Ambrosius along with Riothamus, Uther can make a hash of things up north early on. Some years later Ambrosius would give him another chance during the Frisian campaign and he blows it again. For all this I'm taking a page from some scholars who point out that Britain's manpower reserves at the time would be in the north (and Cornwall), so when Ambrosius takes his mercenaries and the flower of nascent British knighthood to the Visigothic maw, he's counting on the experienced warriors of the north to keep the Saxons honest to their oaths. When news gets back that the army is lost and everyone is dead (471) there is great mourning--except among the sons of Hengest, who are now free to do what their thegns want and raid for revenge. They put out word to the Continent, muster their army and in spring 473 set up the Thames... only to find out that Ambrosius just got back, heard the Saxons were on the move, and scrounged up another army from the south. Result is Windsor. Ambrosius spent a year in Burgundy trying to extricate his mauled troops, before giving up and letting the Burgundian king land his continentals in exchange for enough gold to take ship from Arelate (Arles) in the south and around back to Britain. Excuses here are: it takes the PKs on a bit of a whistlestop tour outside Britain, including a potentially fatal battle, has them meeting people they otherwise wouldn't, and removes them from Britain when they might otherwise meddle in the Cornwall Civil War. Or I might just skip everything and let the PKs meddle in said war. I really like the thought that Aelle intended to join the Sons of Hengest and missed the battle, deciding to cool it a few years and land with a plan. Or... he didn't miss the battle, but left and came back with more men. In my head, his success is because he provoked Ambrosius/Uther to chase him along the coast toward Pevensey, then sent his Kentish reinforcements to land behind the British and threaten their camp. Result was Ambrosius retreating into the Anderida and digging a defensive ditch to overnight (later to be called "Malfosse" by annoyed Norman historians). Meanwhile Aelle looks at the situation and cannily decides to parley. --Khanwulf

Interesting idea Morien: getting my cake and eating it too. I was going to leave Uther to mess up relations with the northern lords while Ambrosius got his tush kicked by the Visigoths--it would help to explain why Uther is loathed outside of Logres. Note: all this is "was going to", before Sires went to great length to address some of my setup concerns. Really my main issue with Ambrosius hanging around Britain is... why would the Saxons rebel against their peace oaths and rise up to raid at that time? They got the ever-lovin' heck bashed out of them 3-4 years before (counting mobilization times), in the early equivalent to Baden, and to me it would take a real, glaring opportunity to rouse them and dare a revenge raid. Sure, Hengest's boys might want to prove themselves, but they had their own chiefdoms under their dad for some time already. So... if Ambrosius took a bunch of men off and was rumored to be killed along with his army, that to me sounds like real opportunity. If Riothamus != Ambrosius, and Riothamus is said to be dead as well, plunging untouched Cornwall into meyhem, then that IS an opportunity--to strike up the Thames and into the heart of richest Britain. The Saxons get stopped at Windsor, while winning the battle handily. What? Stopped? Why? My theory is that they discovered Ambrosius was still alive, got his army together and lost, but had enough pull to continue the mobilization and fall back to building Ambrosius' Dike. At this the Saxons decided to just take what they could get and retire with glory intact. Ambrosius doesn't have to be a militarily awesome king: he's a Good king, not a Great one. Uther is Great not Good, and Arthur is both. So anyway, I'll see how this all goes. --Khanwulf

I'd like to seize on this for a moment and ask if you might expand on the implications a bit. Because I was going to run a segment in which the PKs went off with Riothamus = Ambrosius and then help the High King return to Britain after his mainly continental army (returning from the campaign) gets crushed. Sires, obviously, doesn't use this major hook, but if I send the PKs off with Riothamus I can still have them attempt to not die and get back in time for Windsor. So... what if Riothamus lived? --Khanwulf

For maps you may honestly be better off doing a route system with branches and flagging adventure locations nearby. Sure it's fancy to have the detailed and geographically accurate map but the best versions of the day were essentially distance and direction flags--like a glorified subway. That's why the Romans invested so heavily in mile markers and the like: it kept them oriented. --Khanwulf