Shiningbrow

15 minutes ago, DrGoth said:

Which is saying about 1 person a stead would have it.  Sort of makes sense to me if you think of it that way. In the pre-industruial real world, midwives were specialised too.

I'd imagine two people... the older, wiser midwife, and the younger apprentice who is learning the trade.

19 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I agree with you, there is no reason to not bless everyone... if it were so easy (aka imo where we have a disagreement is the rune pool - pc & exceptional npc vs anyone - )

 

but in another way, as RQG describes that the characteristics depend on the homeland...  -example Bisons-.

If it were so easy, the RQG should say that, in Sartar, Esrolia, Old Tarsh, characters have a +1 in a characteristic of player's choice. That's not the case 🙂

 

so the issue is in my opinion that you are wrong (with all my respect, I m not sure of the "strength" of my words) to consider rqg creation rule as unnamed npc (= population)

 

--> there is no legit question between before and after great winter, if you consider creation rules are only dedicated to "hero" and potential "associates"

--> there is no creation rule issue (aka my +1 charac in any ernaldan location), if you consider creation rules are only dedicated to "hero" and potential "associates"

 

for me the original issue we share and try to manage (in different ways)  is that initiate status allows now (rqg) reusable magic and that any adult is initiate.

the impact then is very important. (but only for those who ask themselves a lot of questions, I m pretty sure a lot of gm and players don't care !)

The issue is how the rules + background answer to the game design choices :  players must be able to cast rune spells again and again. That is the most important point. The answer was to say initiate have rune pool and can cast again and again.

Is it the best answer ? Yes because it is simple, and enough for most players and gm.

A better "mathematic" answer may be :

"considering a new intermediate status for pc and powerfull people:

- a standard initiate is as before, sacrificing pow to cast one use spell

- pc, exceptional initiates, priests, rune lords, etc... sacrifice pow for rune pool, and use rune pool again and again to cast spell, as raw "

that's solve everything: most ernaldan cannot use bless pregnancy every hour (yes it is a provocation 😛 ), just very happy few.

But that provides another issue (how to explain this status ? how can i get it ? etc..) so a lot of words for anyone when only few people need them

One of the things that affects this is the idea that if you sacrifice a point of POW for a Rune Point, you automatically get a new Rune Spell - and it's implied that you can choose any from the list available (in a major temple... obviously, more limitations the smaller the holy place).

I think this should be restricted.

And, perhaps payment should be necessary - especially for the more specialist spells. Bless Crops - cheap. Bless Pregnancy - more expensive.

It would also take care of the "every Orlanthi has Lightning" issue... if Lightning became more difficult to acquire.

21 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think we're arguing different things - my point is that there's little reason any Heortling pregnancy should go unblessed. It's better if there's an expert at it, but if there isn't, then it can be easily fixed by personal sacrificing.

Then my apologies....

 I was reading

22 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

who wouldn't want to spend a point of POW for it and have one more Rune Point forever afterwards (including for later pregnancies)? The reward seems overwhelmingly stronger than the cost. 

differently than intended (or, without the strength of the preceding "

22 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Yes, it might be preferable if someone else casts it

" bit....)

20 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I can't imagine how anyone would want to go through a non-Blessed pregnancy when it's readily available. Even today, avoiding "any of the pains and sicknesses of
her condition" and "during childbirth, she suffers only mild pangs and can control the timing of the birth" seem like they would be strong selling points, and multiply that several times over for bronze age medical conditions when the risk of death for both mother and child is severe. The cost of locking up one Rune Point for most of a year seems almost negligible. Yes, it might be preferable if someone else casts it (so that you don't have to learn it), but if that's not available, who wouldn't want to spend a point of POW for it and have one more Rune Point forever afterwards (including for later pregnancies)? The reward seems overwhelmingly stronger than the cost. 

I think your first line is important here...

Sure, everyone  would want a Blessed Pregnancy. But that's a vastly different idea to who would or should sacrifice to get the spell.

Following your logic, and everyone getting the spell, we should ask "how many times will that spell get used?", and the answer is probably in the realms of only 2 or 3 times in their entire life. Probably less, because someone else in the household would do the casting (remember, we should expect about 70% of all adult females to be Ernaldans).

This then means, the spell is wasted for the vast majority of the time, and for the vast majority of the people.

So... should there be at least one member of a family who has the spell? Again, I don't think it makes sense for this, as once one member of a family has it, then it's unlikely to still get cast except for every few years.. maybe only a few times in each generation.

So, how many times would it be cast per clan? How many kids are getting born each year? And that's the actual answer. A clan apparently has about 30% children, so even a large clan of 1000 people will have 300 kids - i.e., under the age of (let's say) 15. That's an average of only 20 kids per year. Which means - you only need 20 people of the 300 or so Ernaldan initiates needing to cast the spell per year.

And so, the sacrifice to get it is wasted for the approx 280 Ernaldan initiates remaining..... (and that's still presuming 1 spell-casting per individual)

While what the others wrote is correct, there are the more obvious considerations.

Firstly, to learn any sorcery, you need to have the INT to get the Techniques & Runes. That automatically brings down the number of potential LM candidates.

Next, they need to have already been able to read and write to an effective level in order to cast at an effective level. That, once again, reduces the number of places where they're likely to be. According to the book, the training should start from a young age, and that means the R/W must be developed from a young age. Not many people in a rural area are going to have that option. Realistically, either the child of a noble or a scribe - both of which are in relatively short supply except in the larger cities, and a few towns.

Then, of course, there has to be a teacher who knows any sorcery... and who is willing to take time out to teach it. Given most LM scribes are going to be focussed on knowledge acquisition, that's not likely to be common.  (except for the rare LM scholar who is on their own doing their own thing, and wants a dogsbody to do things).

Of the above, I think the R/W is actually the most important factor when looking at concentrations.

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

And who wouldn't sacrifice at least a POW for 1 Rune Point and Bless Pregnancy if it's not already otherwise available? This is a no-brainer.

Ummm... most people? Just looking at the list of Ernalda only spells (not including Associate cult ones), there's about 5 I'd expect most initiates to go for before BP. Restore Health, Reproduce, Bless Crops, etc Once you hit 3RPs, then Heal Body becomes fairly obvious. And, these are all spells that allow you to get the RPs back quickly.

I see Bless Pregnancy to be a more specialised spell, one that is given to someone who has a certain role in the community.

Of course, this is just my vision of Glorantha...

8 hours ago, General Confusion said:

1 or 2 RP on hand for an emergency Heal Body

Apologies for the excessive nitpicking, but.... Heal Body is 3 RPs.... 😄

On 6/8/2023 at 5:59 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Completely legit question - there's essentially no reason why every pregnancy wouldn't be Blessed with at least 3 points. More babies is not a good idea at most times - the clan is probably already at carrying capacity with regards to food - but fewer pregnancies (I assume Ernaldans can control fertility) with healthier and more powerful babies seems like a no-brainer from a game perspective. Nobles should by every reason shop around for even larger Bless Pregnancy spells - it's a solid investment in their offspring. 5-10 points should be quite achievable. My PCs obviously drop the biggest Bless Pregnancy they can find every time it comes up - it's a no-brainer in case the campaign lasts very long and the kids can be promoted into PCs. 

Although perhaps Bless Pregnancy explains the free points of characteristics PCs get during chargen...

Except...

Those RPs used in a Bless Pregnancy can't be regained until the child is born. (note the special duration).

However, what might be a better idea is to feed the local Wyter the POW to do the Bless Pregnancies (at least a basic 1 point... not sure if you'd get the x5 targets for each stacked point into the characteristics).

On 6/8/2023 at 5:33 PM, Akhôrahil said:

If we keep going by RQG, even a basic Ernalda initiate with 3 Rune Points can spend well over 100 Rune Points per year (due to weekly minor holy days). Rune Point availability isn't really a limiting factor - you don't have to cut back on anything in order to drop a Bless Pregnancy 1 on every woman in the community if desired. There's essentially zero opportunity cost.

As above, and... the 'basic' Ernalda initiate doesn't have 3 RPs - they have 1. Special Ernalda initiates have 3 RPs, and so they're less common.

So, back to the maths (as above), they would spend that 1 RP on one Bless Pregnancy for about 3 seasons, and then... ok, then there's options for more. Heal Wound they could do every week... Bless a Crop every week (depending on season).

As @General Confusion mentioned above, there won't be too many basic initiates who have the time to just drop tools and go worship for a full day every week. just to get their RPs back. Special initiates - those looking to head into the priesthood - sure. But that's not the vast majority of the farm workers.

4 hours ago, davecake said:

The Valkarists I tend to treat as pretty heavily influenced by Le Guin's Earthsea books - so the Magic Men are professional highly trained wizards, rather than sages who do a little sorcery on the side, and with a few other skills like knowing how to handle a boat. A bit broader in capacity and more capable of acting independently than most Malkioni sorcerers, probably because of the fancy training they receive at the very magical Domdanalash (which of course is half Domdaniel of the Arabian Nights etc, but half Roke of the Earthsea books). While the Valkarists started as sorcery fanatics, I think they have gradually incorporated some acceptance of mysticism into their world view (more the psuedo-Taoist Larn Hasamador, both in keeping with Le Guin's own Taoism (her version of the Tao De Ching is excellent) and acknowledging that practically both Mashunasan's Orthodox mysticism, and becoming a powerful sorcerer, are very time consuming)

That would suggest to me that they'd use a LOT more specific Runes in their sorcery - if following an Earthsea version. And, each Control type spell would only work on one very specific entity (if keeping the Naming as an essential feature). This would certainly make their sorcery unique!

On 6/7/2023 at 3:00 PM, JRE said:

Craft Bronze and Craft Iron are both Humakt Cult Skills and among the skills useful in becoming a Sword, so it is an intrinsic part of the Cult, unlike Orlanth, who has the Enchant Iron but no metallurgy by himself, as that is what Gustbran is for.

Taking Humakt's cutting off family, IMG he does not rely on them, doing all things important to the cult on their own, and of course that includes crafting and enchanting swords. I always have Humakti initiates at a forge as one of the ways to become one with their blade, by crafting one and understanding it.

And for those humakti that abandon their family and community for the sword, being able to maintain your armor and weapons is important. So more typical for wandering swords and mercenaries than swordthanes, as those still have the support of their community.

I do not like the current metal enchantment rules, where it is the object and not the metal what is enchanted, though it make sense for those flighty Wind Lords who just have someone else make their toys and then enchant them. 

While that sounds good in theory, in practice it sort of lacks sense for the black/Iron smithing.

Certainly, for the first few years of a Humakti's life, they should learn and develop their redsmithing skills, but I doubt that they' also pick up the iron-smithing skills around the same time - that's really only likely to start after they become a Sword - and at a very rough guess, from around 25-27 years old (unless exceptional). And that's a rather old Humakti (given how often they're in combat).

So, starting iron-smithing from becoming a Sword isn't likely to make one very competent.

And therefore, it makes more sense to have a dedicated ironsmith for the local cult, rather than expect everyone to do their own.

15 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Hold on, Morgan: I agree that the Crimson Bat is a chaotic abomination. It has demonstrably been tamed by the Red Goddess, and is used by her Empire in the service of Lunar civilisation. It is the best example of how the Lunars can make constructive use of Chaos to make the world a better place. If I said that it wasn’t a chaotic abomination, I’d be lying to you. And I can say all of that without sinking to its moral level.

You are such a Lunar apologist.

The Bat was happily stuffed away in some Hell not harming anyone at all, and not interfering with anything - until she brought it up and onto the the material world.

It has since killed tens of thousands of people (of various ilk) - or more - and consumed their souls.. souls and lives that would (sort of) still be around now if not for her highness bringing it up.

And for some reason, you consider this a better place??? A constructive use???

This is why the Orlanthi and Praxians hate the Lunars.

To make an analogy to the RL, it's like using chemical warfare to win a war... everyone knows it's evil, and the justification to the winning side in no way alleviates that war crime.

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Let Chaos destroy Chaos first, and then destroy what's left. 

Tricking the broo into this situation - fine.

Actually paying them - heresy!

(but, I'm mainly arguing that this situation isn't something sanctioned by 99.99% of Praxians and Khans... and any deals must be done very much in secret. If word got out that Khan X did such deals, then I'd expect their tribe to rise up against him (certainly the Stormbullies would have him quickly removed)

What? Other than the Cult Compatibility chart in Cults of Terror that has Waha and Eiritha considering all Chaos as enemies???

Or, p24 of Cults of Prax, where it says (quote) "Waha hates Chaos and will muster to fight it quickly when it is found. He remembers friends who aid him against the evil, and is their friend afterwards... " Or Eiritha on p 28, "The worshippers of this goddess hate all things of chaos..."

Sure, one could say that Praxians =/= Waha or Eiritha... but who in the Praxian tribes would have the right to speak on behalf of the tribe, other than a Waha Khan?

One might make the suggestion that a Daka Fal shaman might go to a Thed shaman and make a deal, but I doubt the Waha initiates (or Eiritha) would be too happy about it)

1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

for me this kind of changes (add movement, "add" passivity) is possible. However it means to "add" runes to the spell

active ==> passive ? add stasis and combine

I wouldn't take this route, largely because the distinction between Active and Passive spells hasn't been made that way.

No other spell has a Rune for this aspect of a spell.

24 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Interesting idea. Would you share it, please.

Ummm... yeah, that's about it....

Truth, Command, (?Fire?)

I haven't figured out how many Intensity per split... probably just 3, maybe 4. It's Active, so the first split is used up just maintaining that, however it now allows for normal movement and other activity without the need for a roll (unless injured).

Concentration rolls only required if one gets injured, and even then it's per split mind (if the first roll for the Split Mind spell holds).

I'd also allow some enchantments or even rare crystals to do the same (sort of like an Active Spell Storing crystal... 1D4? 1D6??).

I just created a spell which I think I'll call Split Mind (sort of similar to Solace of Logical Mind), in which X points of Intensity splits your concentration (puts a bit on maintaining X spells) while the main part of your concentration is focussed on other things (eg, movement, casting other spells, etc). Each split allows for 1 spell requiring concentration.

A Chalana Arroy fumbles while trying to pull the Stormbully out of Berserk?

Ummm... why anything?

Sensuality and sexuality should not be seen as the same thing.

Sure, there may be a sexual component on the side of the player, but there's no reason the Voria Priestess has to see it that way. Kissing is an act of sensuality, and that's something that falls right into the lap of Voria.

So, if you want her to change, she can. If you're happy with her staying as Voria, then she can keep that innocence (and, dare I say, it's probably something she would do regularly anyway - for the same reasons).

I think... (and parts of this have been suggested/hinted at above)...

It all depends on what the Heroquest is for, and what you're expecting as an end goal.

If it's exploratory, then anything goes, and you can take who you like.

However, if you're doing something tried and true, I see two issues with it.

Firstly, as stated above - there's no way that any clan or priesthood is going to take on along enemy except to act in the role of an enemy (and, personally, I can't see too many enemy cultists being willing to enter such a Heroquest... I suppose you could somehow convince a ZZ to go along on a Hill of Gold to beat up a Yelmalion* ... but I'm not sure just how likely that would ever be).

Secondly, if you're re-enacting myths, then by definition you need to have a good idea of what that myth is in order to do so - and that's what Cult Lore is all about - the inner workings and mysteries of the cult. Therefore, logically, if they're not an initiate of the god, (or one with a similar story - eg LBQ, which is shared across the various participants in the pantheon), and if they don't have the right magicks (both Rune Spells & Rune Affinity), then they're not going to know what to do when push comes to shove... and then you're in exploration mode!

Sure, I could see Thanatari taking heads and learning various Cult Lores and do this. I can also see sorcerers dominating initiates and getting them to teach them the same. And, of course, if you're Illuminated, you can just sneak your way in.

So, for me, it's less about who you are, and much more about what you know and can do.

(* just a thought - should this be pronounced as 'Yel-MAY-lion', or like the Merlion in Singapore 'Yelm-a-LEEon"?? 'YELM-a-LION'??)

On 5/15/2023 at 10:45 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Just by chance was reading through TotRM 08, strangely enough the broo in question should have had a d4 damage bonus but it wasn't included in the stats. I suppose if we ever run this this horror they will get 3d6+d4+6:

 

Would anyone suggest that the Fireblade would neutralise the poison? Would it have any effect on the disease? (is the disease a spirit?)

On 5/15/2023 at 2:26 PM, Darius West said:

Assuming the Broos don't simply take the half payment and F off.

Or, more likely, turn on you, knowing you have money!

Or even more likely, hire themselves out to everyone on the battlefield, and then pick a side... (or, like the hirer, wait until both sides have fought, then rampage through the remaining lot)

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

The would-be initiate is perfectly within their rights to twist the wording of the demand. 

If they don't try to twist the wording, then they can't become an initiate 😜

+

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

Fool's motley for public tricksters is a good idea. 

21 hours ago, Darius West said:

this separation between public and secret tricksters is pretty much the only way they can function,

I would suggest that each clan have their own, individual, clearly demarked Trickster, as they would be necessary for the Lightbringer rituals (as well as someone to mock the clan council).

29 minutes ago, DrGoth said:

From 30,000 feet it's hard to tell the difference between types of undead 😁

I actually made the mistake of thinking D was a V... I was corrected.

There's a few threads related to the subject.

On 5/13/2023 at 1:16 AM, Dragon said:

Good points. I believe the suggestion of a non-Vivamort vampire is personified in Delecti. He is a different topic by himself. And IMHO should remain a mysterious figure that doesn't fit into any particular category. So I definitely agree "there's been no clear idea of how they work".

He's not supposed to be an actual vampire - just a powerful sorcerer who is 'immortal', and a Vivamort hero (-priest).

"Delecti the Necromancer: Delecti was a powerful sorcerer of the Empire of the Wyrms Friends who broke the barriers between life and death. By his arts, Delecti has achieved a gruesome sort of immortality: he can transfer his spirit into a freshly slain corpse and live through it until the rotting flesh can no longer sustain him, at which time he seeks out another corpse." (GtG p 170)

However, just to complicate things: " he “lives” there still, an immortal and powerful vampire." is on p. 190...

I think....

I would be very wary of allowing a player to be an Eurmali, because it's difficult to get right, and involves a very heavy amount of roleplay. (And that's not even talking about the very generic 'get kicked out of town' aspects)

Most Eurmali would be unlikely to need or want some of the OP spells (Lie being an obvious one), as that would mean having to take on a particular aspect of the god. I would make the player have to earn the spell, and that would mean having to use it as well (reasonably regularly*) in order to further the cult's ambitions. That would mean, if one wants to get the Murderer aspect spells, then surely the Eurmali must commit murder. If you're taking the Lie spell, then you need to be telling some whoppers that gets people (the more the merrier) really riled up (later). This is the "Yelm won't be rising tomorrow - he's going to spend a few days in the Underworld to woo the Goddess of the Dark" type thing. (Monrogh was obviously an Eurmali, and his Lie has continued on for a while!!!)

*The 'reasonably regularly' is important, and is an important aspect of the Trickster personality - they are not the most reliable, and plans tend to go awry when they are involved, because they simply don't care about your plans, and what's important is getting that 'joke' in now - not waiting til later when someone else thinks using that spell could be useful. They have very little self-control, and the future is... meh! So, I would expect most Eurmalis to be constantly running out of RPs. If it wasn't for their lack of self-control (and thus, 'wastage' of RPs), then the Eurmali cult could be very influential in the world... "I was on my way to tell Leika that Sartar himself had returned, but I thought it would be funny to see the local barman throw out all his 'poisoned' beer... heeheeheehe."

One other thing, though... the book says "Eurmal has countless subcults. Each shrine is associated with a Eurmal and provides additional special magic. Some common subcults include:" And then lists the various spells. Has anyone added to this list and created new spells??

On 5/11/2023 at 12:25 PM, g33k said:

Supply wagons are *critical* for armies.

Not so much for small bands of Adventurers; but larger groups absolutely.

Oh, I would never suggest supply wagons aren't critical for armies, nor appropriate for a mercenary band.

I just think that the group of skills it's linked it - combat skills - may suggest that the chariot is the more more likely intended usage. Of course, there's no reason it couldn't be for both. (although, I also suppose it depends on how you view your soldier/mercenary... how many chariot companies are there around??)

In many armies, it's the hangers-on that drive a lot of the wagons, not the soldiers (yes, I know that many do as well!!)

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

Most of the people on this forum despise Mongoose for various reasons.

Oh yes! And it amuses me... because, while apparently YGMV is a huge positive aspect of the game and culture, it's not allowed to apply to Mongoose. Ie, they weren't allowed to have their own vision or variation on the world and do something different with it. Besides which... hate the publisher, not the author's and their work! (especially for MRQ2) However, this is OT...

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

As to mercenary soldiers and drive skill (a) 10% won't achieve much

True! But... if you're an Orlanthi Cityfolk, you can get +10%, and then Mercenary/soldier +10%, plus categories, plus Free Skill Points. +10% is a very typical skill addition throughout all of character creation. And... look a the skills in RQ2...or 3.... or even RQG....

9 hours ago, Darius West said:

(b) are you sure the primary use of the skill isn't for driving supply wagons?

No, I'm not. However, that same logic could apply to so many other occupations as well, and so I'm not convinced that "driving supply wagons" would really feature that highly in a mercenar/soldiery (especially when you look at the other skills on that list: 1H Axe +10%, 1H Flail +10%, 1H Hammer +10%, 1H Sword +10%, 2H Axe +10%, 2H Flail +10%, 2H Hammer +10%, 2H Sword +10%, Athletics +10%, Bow +10%, Crossbow +10%, Dagger +10%, Driving +10% (**Supply Wagon), Polearm +10%, Riding +10%, Shield +10%, Sling +10%, Spear +10%. Pick the odd one out....

Crafters don't get it. Neither do Merchants. And I would have thought those two would be more likely to drive wagons that the warrior types. (NB farmers do at +5% as an automatic)

Slightly related to this, why would Cityfolk Orlanthi have drive, but not the other Orlanthi two (especially Nomadic)?