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Posted (edited)

I'm sharing for two reasons, I'm happy to be dusting off the old dice bag again and putting on my GM hat, and I'm interested in whatever feedback people want to give.

So, I'm sitting with my wife and my sister. Both have experience roleplaying and both no longer play. My wife had a bad experience with some gamers who were a little too intense, and my sister got bored of some gamers excessive rules mongering. Between us there are five kids running around that need to be watched. Life is also kind of busy, and making time to game when there are other things to do seems a bit indulgent.

So I turned to them and said, listen, why don't I run some fast and furious, rules light games. They'll run no more than an hour and it will be no pressure. We can stop whenever to take care of things that need to be done.

Much to my surprise, they said yes.

So my plan is to strip BRP way down, consolidate the skill list and introduce a freeform magic system. I'll be running combat very similar to the Elric! combat rules. I'm also going to make use of the Minion rules and the alternative use of POW from Gods of Law. The PCs will be pretty powerful out of the gate, though I have to figure out what a good starting point distribution would be with the new skill list. The goal is to have both of their characters made in five to ten minutes (after a bit of character personality and background brainstorming).

Now on magic. I was going through thinking about which BRP systems I'd incorporate. I want the players to be able to do whatever they want, and there are a lot of really great magic rules to choose from. I can run some of these systems by memory. Others I would have to look up. Plus, using them is just one more thing for the players to track.

Then I remembered the Primea Spell list. <ahttp://basicroleplaying.org/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png' alt=':)'> The Character will have a percentage in a given magic type to cast a spell. For each level of spell, there will be a modifier. The spell is described by the player on the fly. I'll adjudicate what 'level' the spell is and assign the modifier, using the examples in Primea as a basic guideline. I'll also be taking another look at the Maelstrom rules, as they do something similar.

I figure modifiers will go something like...

1st level: -0%

2nd level: -20%

3rd level: -40%

4th level: -60%

5th level: -80%

I think that pretty much boils it down. We'll see how it works out.

Edit: Something I forgot to add. The players can have more than one spell list. Spell lists do have a prerequisite Stat, but that's usually a POW of 16 or greater. Music magic and maybe Priest magic would be a CHA of 16< (I hate APP). Alchemy and Artificer would be INT of 16<. I might make Martial magic a STR of 16<. Alternatively, I may swap POW out and use INT instead for the POW magic, seeing as having a high POW is going to give you more magic points anyway.

I'm also using an alternative experience system, but I dare not post it for fear of being called a heretic...

Edited by Chaot

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Posted

I'm also using an alternative experience system, but I dare not post it for fear of being called a heretic...

Heretic! :mad:

...There, now that's out of the way, you might as well tell us. ;)

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

Posted

you might as well tell us. ;)

Me and my big mouth. :(

I'm thinking this is going to rub some purists the wrong way. But since you asked...

...here we go...

Every time a PC uses a skill, they get a check mark by it. It doesn't matter what the result of the roll was. The thought is, we learn by both our successes and our failures.

At the end of the session, there are a certain amount of 'experience points' handed out. My general guideline is 5 experience points per session, but for this game I might drop it down to 3 due to the compressed skill list. These can go to either Stats or Skills. First I'll deal with Skills.

I took the average of a 1d10 and rounded up. So every experience point you devote to skills you can distribute 6 percentage points. This is limited to the skills you tried to use during a session (regardless of success or failure) and is limited to 10 points per skill. The only exception is if the skill is at 00%. Those skills need some training first.

For stats, I actually took a note from D&D and the Wish spell.

Say I have a 9 CON and I want to raise it. I would need to devote my current CON number in experience points plus one. So, to increase my CON to 10, I would need to devote 10 experience points. To increase it to 11, I'd need to devote an additional 11 experience points. It tends to balance nicely, as the characters devoting experience to their skills tend to be more effective than those devoting it to their stats.

Here's where I'm going to catch holy hell. In my game, SIZ is mutable...

It's already an uneasy amalgam of height and weight. I've added bearing. In my mind, the height and weight listed on the character sheet is what the character is. Now, a halfling is going to start out at a low SIZ, but if the character invests experience points into SIZ, it becomes more about how the halfling carries themselves rather than a physical representation of their actual size.

I feel that the process lets the player have more control of their character rather than letting the dice decide. It's worked very well for the last ten years. It fits my play style well. It's just how I roll. :)

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Posted

I figure modifiers will go something like...

1st level: -0%

2nd level: -20%

3rd level: -40%

4th level: -60%

5th level: -80%

I think that pretty much boils it down. We'll see how it works out.

Good on you for getting something up and running. The only thing I want to add is to consider ditching the modifiers for spell levels. Instead, charge more in Power Points for more potent spells. Maybe, 2X Power Point per level of the spell?

Otherwise, I foresee this conversation taking place in game:

Player: I'm going to perform magical operation X

Chaot: Okay, that's going to be your Magic Skill, -60%

Player: What? I thought you said I could do anything with my magic. -60% puts me at -15%. There's no way I can do it.

This sort of thing can be frustrating, especially for players who are returning to gaming after being run off by bad experiences. You may be able to get around this by using the Alternative POW rules, but even so, I think having big modifiers for a rule-light BRP is likely to cause more problems than it's worth.

Also, I'm interested in whatever system you wind up using. When you get done, care to post the notes?

Posted

Your system will allow players more freedom and make characters increase in capability more quickly -- both of which are good for a free-form, let's have fun, game.

You might also think about a way to give the players some game mechanism to avoid dying (e.g. use X experience points to avoid an instant death).

To my mind, the cost of increasing stats is too low, so I'll be curious how it works for you.

Steve

Bathalians, the newest UberVillians!

Posted

You might check out Ashes to Ashes to see what Neorxnawang did with the magic system. I don't remember the formula and I don't have the book with me, but basically you do a little quick calculation and compare the result to the level of the spell on the resistance table, then roll that percentage. It's supposed to work with any BRP spell from any book, so it's quite flexible/freeform in that way.

Thalaba

"Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb

__________________________________

 

Posted

It's a good point. Maybe I should frame it different?

If I go by 2x spell level, and keep to the Primea examples, we're looking at 10 MP for a Resurrection spell if the PC is a Healer. I'd prefer to tie magic to skill level, but I do see your point in keeping the system open.

So,what if I tie spell levels to skill percentages?

0-20% - The character can cast a first level spell

21-50% - The character can cast a second level spell

51-100% - The character can cast a third level spell

101-150% - The character can cast a fourth level spell

151< - The character can cast a fifth level spell

I was thinking about tying effects into the 'Roll Table For Demons and Elementals' from Elric!

Granted, I'm going to be running some high fantasy. At character creation, I'll be capping the points that a character can put into a skill at 80%. This will be augmented by any of their base chances, which I'll play fast and loose with as well, so I expect serious casters to begin with either a skill past 100% or several lower percentage skills.

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Posted

So,what if I tie spell levels to skill percentages?

0-20% - The character can cast a first level spell

21-50% - The character can cast a second level spell

51-100% - The character can cast a third level spell

101-150% - The character can cast a fourth level spell

151< - The character can cast a fifth level spell

I was thinking about tying effects into the 'Roll Table For Demons and Elementals' from Elric!

I like this a lot better. It will slightly increase your book-keeping as a GM, but I think it's easy enough to convey to players.

As an aside, it may also be useful to simulate the Mage magic system. I'll have to think about this some more.

I do love the Roll Table. It's just so darn useful. How are you thinking about tying them in? Something like, MP spent does damage according to the table, and offers the percentage chance of something happening? Or something else?

Posted (edited)

Your system will allow players more freedom and make characters increase in capability more quickly -- both of which are good for a free-form, let's have fun, game.

It also lets them take control over how their characters develop. I've used it for a few years and it seems to work surprisingly well.

You might also think about a way to give the players some game mechanism to avoid dying

I need to take another look at the Fate rules in the DBRP. I may fold them in with my MP rules.

To my mind, the cost of increasing stats is too low, so I'll be curious how it works for you.

Understood. The way it has worked out for me so far is that a PC will put a point or two into a Stat per session to begin with. Skills are so important that they tend to out weigh increased stats. Once the player's skills are in the 150% to 300% range, they start focusing on their stats.

So far, it's worked out pretty well.

You might check out Ashes to Ashes to see what Neorxnawang did with the magic system.

I bought the pdf, but I'm afraid that the way I'm wired, dead tree resonates better than 1s and 0s. :)

I will take a another look at it though.

As an aside, it may also be useful to simulate the Mage magic system. I'll have to think about this some more.

Unfortunately, I don't own any White Wolf stuff. If you have any guidance in this direction I'd be happy to hear it. My players are more interested in story lines than mechanics, so if I switch something out and it seems fair I doubt I'm going to come up against much objection.

One of the reasons why I'm going with the Primea list right now is because we can play it by ear.

I do love the Roll Table. It's just so darn useful.

Isn't it? Honestly, I'm not sure how to tie it in. I've got until Sunday to figure it out though. :)

Any suggestions are welcome. The simpler, the better.

Edit:

Also, I'm interested in whatever system you wind up using. When you get done, care to post the notes?

Absolutely. I've got a little time to hammer them into place. I'll note where we started from, how it played out, and changes we've decided to make.

Edited by Chaot

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Posted (edited)

Any suggestions are welcome. The simpler, the better.

Okay, the thing about the Roll Table for Demons is that the costs for abilities is balanced to be for a one-time expenditure of Magic Points; you pay your points, and the demon can use that ability as much as it wants. This won't work for PC magicians, who are expected to spend MP for each spell, and expect a certain amount of band for their buck.

To that end, you may be able use to the Roll Table, not for instantaneous spells, but those that the magician wants to be able to use, but would ordinarily be unable to fuel with enough magic points to do so for very long. Since the damage rating for the roll table are much lower than a normal damaging spell, this should balance out in the long run.

To that end, assume the following rules:

1. When a character wishes to "hang" a spell for continued use, have the player describe the spell effects and spend magic points.

2. The magic Points spent become a spell that does damage equal to the Roll Table Result for the magic points spent, at a skill percentage equal to the Roll Result for the same amount. This same effect works for protection, too; instead of doing damage, the Roll Table Result is extra armour that protects if the percentage chance is successfully rolled before the attack hits.

3. Spells used to augment other attacks may add both the Skill Chance from teh Roll table to the "to hit" rolls, as well as the damage from the Roll Table.

4. If a hung spell is to be used to augment another skill, the percentage from the Roll Table is added to that skill for each time it is used.

5. The Magic Points invested in hung spells do not come back until the spells in which they are invested are allowed to lapse.

6. Magicians may only have a number of spells in use equal to their POW. This includes spells cast as usual.

6. hung Spells last for a single scene. They can be extended for another scene by investing their normal Magic Point costs again, where the same rules apply.

This may or may not be useful, but it was all i could come up with.

Charles

Edited by Charles Green
Posted

Very useful.

Here's something that I've been thinking about. It's been informed by your post.

So, I'm an Elric! guy. It's the system that I gelled with. So, I'm thinking that a given spell will last POW in rounds. I'm thinking it could be reigned in by the Character's skills and their MP. I'm also thinking that the spell can be extended by casting a single MP for an additional POW in rounds.

An example:

Let's say that the PC has Earth magic at 40%. They also have a POW of 12. They want to cast a Stone Skin like spell. I'm thinking 1 MP for the spell plus additionally MP for how powerful it would be. In this situation, the character only has 40% in their skill, so they can drop 5 MPs for an armor bonus of 1d8. One point is for the casting of the spell, the other four are regulated by the table.

It opens itself up to increasing skill bonuses as well. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

As for it being weaker, I'm not sure. 'Hell's Sharp [Whatever]' is a 1-4 spell and it only adds to the natural damage of the weapon (except for the flame one. I thing that's an extra 1d4, but I'd have to check to be sure.)

An ad hoc spell from what I'm thinking about would do 1d8 damage for five points, or an additional 40% to their roll. Then there are all of those weird effects that players come up with. I'll have to play all that by ear.

This may or may not be useful, but it was all i could come up with.

CG, you know Gods of Chaos/Law has a special place on my bookshelf, right? Any input you have, well, I'm going to examine it carefully. :D

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

So, due to various parties and people being out of town, I haven't had a chance to start this yet. I think it will be this weekend. So, I want to run some Skill ideas past everyone and see what the feedback is. At first I parsed the skill list down to about twenty skills. Then I went wild. :)

Bare in mind, this is supposed to be fast and loose. The skill listing that I'm about to present loses some nuance compared to a fuller fleshed out skill set. Still, I hope that roleplaying will pick up some of that slack.

General Skills

Athletics, Communication, Knowledge, Mercantilism, Perception

Specialty Skills

Art, Combat, Craft, Language, Lore, Thievery

Here's the basic break down.

General Skills

Athletics - Run, Jump, Swim, that sort of thing.

Communications - Fast Talk, Oratory, reading body language, that sort of thing.

Knowledge - Very general knowledge of area and legends, facts and figures, etc. I figure First Aid fits into this category.

Mercantilism - Bargaining, knowing where to get a good deal on general stock, etc.

Perception - Spot, Listen, Insight.

Specialty Skills

Ok, this is a bit odd, but I think it will work. Say I have Art 35%. Underneath it I have Painting, Flute, and Interpretive Dance. They all equal my 35% art skill.

My Craft is 50%. Under I've got Create Armor, Basket Weaving, and Baking. They all hit 50%.

Adding another skill requires an INT x1 check. Next time you try to add the skill it ups it's self to an INT x2 check. And so on. Only one check per adventure.

This holds across the board except for Thievery. Thievery is a combined skill check. If you're using Thievery and want to cut a purse, climb a wall, hide in shadows or sneak about, you roll once and compare the roll to both your Thievery skill and your Athletics skill. If both are successful, you bump the success up one level.

You want to pawn something, it's Thievery and your Mercantilism skill. You want to put your ear to the underground, it's your Thievery and Knowledge skill.

Thoughts?

Edit: Forgot to mention. I'm thinking of reducing combat to a single Combat skill. This would include Brawl, Wrestle, and the various weapon types. I've got some figures that I've gone through based on RQ and HarnMaster to make different weapons more effective against different armor types to add some flavor. Not sure I'll use them though.

Edited by Chaot

70/420

Posted

So, due to various parties and people being out of town, I haven't had a chance to start this yet. I think it will be this weekend. So, I want to run some Skill ideas past everyone and see what the feedback is. At first I parsed the skill list down to about twenty skills. Then I went wild. :)

I very much like the compressed skill list. I'd maybe change a few names but no need for you to.

Does the extra sophistication in the cascade of Speciality skills justify the extra complication? If 'twere me I'd keep them as admiradbly simple as your General skills are.

Are you keeping Specials and Criticals as written. No offence to the numeracy of you or your players but I do like simplifying Special to 1/2 skill and Critical to 1/10th skill. Course even simpler is to bin them altogether.

Edit: Forgot to mention. I'm thinking of reducing combat to a single Combat skill. This would include Brawl, Wrestle, and the various weapon types.

I are a big fan of that approach. I have Combat and Missile as two separate skills but if you're going for clarity and simplicity then reducing that further sounds like a good un.

I've got some figures that I've gone through based on RQ and HarnMaster to make different weapons more effective against different armor types to add some flavor. Not sure I'll use them though.

[bit woolly and waffly and probably NOT inline with teh simplification motif ahead]

When Herve posted his ideas for changing weapon damage I initially said it weren't for me. But his response made me rethink. And now I'm thinking (not playtested thus far)

Weapon damage based on weapon size

Unarmed 1d3

Small 1d4

Medium 1d6

Large 1d8

Large used 2h 1d10

Great Weapon 2d6

Then inspired by Jason's work on shooty things in BRP and the PenDragon rules each type of weapon deals with armour slightly differently. And has

Axe - Edged, 1/2 AP of Shields, can be thrown

Flail - Blunt, 1/2 AP or Shields and of Chain, hit self on fumble

Hammer - Impale, 1/2 AP of Plate

Mace - Blunt, 1/2 AP of Chain

Spear - Impale, can be thrown, can be used to hold opponent off

Sword - Edged (or Impale for 1d8 regardless of how big)

For shooty things (playtested and suits ME but mayhap not you)

Pistol 1d10

Carbine 2d6

Rifle 2d8

H Rifle 3d6

Gun 4d6

Again the TYPE of weapon then has other effects

Blackpowder - Blunt, take at least 2 rounds to reload

Cordite - Impale, some are auto, 1/2 APs of non-ballistic physical armour

Gauss - Impale, almost always auto, 1/2 APs of all physical armour

Laser - Impale, invisible and no recoil (so autos add +10% per extra shot not +5%) but no knockback, 1/2 APs of Forcefields

Blasters/Particle Beams - Impale, 1/2 APs of Forcefields

Plasma - Fire, ignore all physical armour

Al

Rule Zero: Don't be on fire

Posted

I'd maybe change a few names but no need for you to.

Please, feel free to offer suggestions.

Does the extra sophistication in the cascade of Speciality skills justify the extra complication?

Yeah, maybe you're right.

Are you keeping Specials and Criticals as written. No offence to the numeracy of you or your players but I do like simplifying Special to 1/2 skill and Critical to 1/10th skill. Course even simpler is to bin them altogether.

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Posted

Regarding magic, an idea occurred to me. What if the amount of MP you could invest in a spell was predicated by your skill, say at 1 MP per 10%?

Using the Demon chart, this means someone with a 20% in a magic discipline could cast a 2 MP spell, causing either 1d4 of damage, increasing a skill by 20%, or creating an effect that's reasonable. This way, the effectiveness of a caster's spells could scale with their skill in a mechanical sense. Determining how much an effect is worth will be a bit difficult. I'll have to play that by ear.

Another idea. I wanted to tie Lore in with Magic somehow. I was browsing Corum and came across the rule where you allegiance to Chaos increases your MP. What if for every 10% you have in your Lore skill, you receive and additional MP?

Just ideas. I have until Sunday to get this whole mess straightened out. :)

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Posted

I use that idea (max-per-spell of 1MP per 10% magic skill) and it works fine. That's with low-ish skill and non-standard spells, but I guess it'd be ok otherwise too.

Deriving MP from Lore skills as well might overcomplicate things. Magical Lores should probably be useful in their own right.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

Posted

I use that idea (max-per-spell of 1MP per 10% magic skill) and it works fine.

Excellent. I think I'm going to roll with that then.

I guess I'll drop the Lore thing for the time being. I have a tendency to overcomplicate things when it comes to mechanics. I have to keep telling myself that this game is supposed to be simple. I I think of something nifty, hooray. Put it away or another campaign. :)

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