[brp] deciding which skill opposes which

[chuckhazard]

I'm very new to brp, and I'm getting ready to run a CoC game. I'm trying to figure out what stay would oppose a fast talk roll. The example in the book makes it sound unopposed - you either fast talk or don't, and the target doesn't matter. Now in dnd I'd look for a sense motive skill but nothing like that seems to be present.

To me it seems that some characters would be more orleas susceptible to fast talk, but the example doesn't seem to make an allowance for this. It seems like it would be a situation to use the resistance table, but like I said I don't see an appropriate skill. Only hide/spot skills specify they are to oppose one another.

Thanks,

[Thalaba]

Welcome, Chuck.

Great question! I've had some similar issues as well.

In my game I've opted to go with a 'persuade' skill to cover all forms of persuading an individual, be it fast talk or an intimidate or whatever. I allow the defender an 'Insight' roll to counter this. I let degree of success win, with ties going to the player. We play a sword and sorcery type game, so for us it doesn't need to be more nuanced than this. If I was playing a heavy political game, I might do it differently.

One thing I've been thinking about is how one might make the social skills aspect of the game more interesting. One might, for instance, develop a set of derived stats for social situations. Charm might be equal to CHA+INT, Intimidate = SIZ+INT, Fast talk or Wit = INT+INT, Authority = POW+INT.

With these four derived stats, one would then use them to roll on the resistance table against the opponent's Wit or Authority to try and persuade someone by one of these four means. Not knowing the NPC's scores, the player would have to try to figure out what the best method of persuading someone would be. It needs some work, but could be quite interesting I think.

Back to your original question - you could always counter a fast-talk with the defender's fast-talk. Stands to reason that the mental ability to pull off a fast talk would also be applied to seeing through one. Or you can allow the defender an Idea roll (maybe INTx5,INTx3 or INTx1 depending on how successful the fast talk was) to see through it.

Thalaba

[vagabond]

Welcome, Chuck.

Great question! I've had some similar issues as well.

In my game I've opted to go with a 'persuade' skill to cover all forms of persuading an individual, be it fast talk or an intimidate or whatever. I allow the defender an 'Insight' roll to counter this. I let degree of success win, with ties going to the player. We play a sword and sorcery type game, so for us it doesn't need to be more nuanced than this. If I was playing a heavy political game, I might do it differently.

One thing I've been thinking about is how one might make the social skills aspect of the game more interesting. One might, for instance, develop a set of derived stats for social situations. Charm might be equal to CHA+INT, Intimidate = SIZ+INT, Fast talk or Wit = INT+INT, Authority = POW+INT.

With these four derived stats, one would then use them to roll on the resistance table against the opponent's Wit or Authority to try and persuade someone by one of these four means. Not knowing the NPC's scores, the player would have to try to figure out what the best method of persuading someone would be. It needs some work, but could be quite interesting I think.

Back to your original question - you could always counter a fast-talk with the defender's fast-talk. Stands to reason that the mental ability to pull off a fast talk would also be applied to seeing through one. Or you can allow the defender an Idea roll (maybe INTx5,INTx3 or INTx1 depending on how successful the fast talk was) to see through it.

Thalaba

Good ideas on the derived stats. I believe the default counter to Fast Talk is

an Ideal roll.

Ian

[chuckhazard]

Thanks, and thanks for the info. I like both those solutions, insight and idea. I'll probably stay away from any house rules at least until the gang gets ahold of this new system, although it does sound promising

Unfortunately I have one player that afears the math. He'll just have to cope with all the 3x 4x 5x.

[Al.]

The BRP equivalent to XD&D's Sense Motive is Insight. And that makes sense for seeing through lies.

I'd agree that a skilled Fast Talker ("never bullshit a bullshitter....") could use that to oppose rather than Insight.

I'm stuck to standards from my first ever BRP game and so use Persuade as a meta-skill for all Persuadey skills a la SBIII

Al

[soltakss]

As has been mentioned before, Insight and Fast Talk could be generally used. INT multiples might be useful as well, INTx5% for flimsy Fast Talks, INTx3 for normal ones and INTx1% for very clever Fast Talks.

Guards, on the other hand, can never resist Fast Talk as one of the prerequisites for being a Guard is that Fast Talk always works on them (or that they are stupid).

[Trifletraxor]

I'm very new to brp, and I'm getting ready to run a CoC game. I'm trying to figure out what stay would oppose a fast talk roll. The example in the book makes it sound unopposed - you either fast talk or don't, and the target doesn't matter. Now in dnd I'd look for a sense motive skill but nothing like that seems to be present.

My rule is that generally PCs must be fast talked in real life, while for NPCs, the GM takes the fast talk roll into consideration when deciding how the NPC react. No absolutes.

SGL.

[chuckhazard]

A sensible rule - without actually convincing the player it's impossible to convince the PC. You just end up with a disgruntled player.

I remember playing a game where the GM wanted all the players to hop in a limo and be taken to an undisclosed location ( simply the place where we were to receive our assignmmt ). Unfortunately he tried persuasion, then intimidation. Like cats, you just can't herd players. After that we weren't going anywhere near that limo.

Ive found an excellent technique to fast talk players is to talk fast

[breathin]the-pirates-arrive-in-overwhelming-numbers-and-you-are-soon-overwhelmed-you-awake-in-a-dank-dungeon-what-do-you-do?[/breathout].

[Al.]

Agreed. Good ol' D6 Star Wars explicitly stated that Persuasion skills NEVER work on PCs. Players retain free will of what their characters do. And quite right too.

[dragonewt]

Agreed. Good ol' D6 Star Wars explicitly stated that Persuasion skills NEVER work on PCs. Players retain free will of what their characters do. And quite right too.

"These aren't the rules you are looking for. Move along."