Hit Locations only

[deleriad]

BRP currently has options for Hit Points only or Hit Points and Hit Locations. Thought it might be interesting to import a "Hit Location only" toolbox option: as used in MRQ...

The premise is that a character does not have any sort of hit point total: instead some dies when a vital location suffers a major wound. Using humanoids as an example:

vital locations are head & torso locations

non-vital locations are limbs.

There are three types of injury.

Minor injury - any amount of damage that does not reduce a location below zero.

Serious injury - any amount of damage that reduces a location to negative HPs. Location with a serious injury is impaired.

Major inury - any injury that means the location has suffered more than double its normal HPs in damage. Doing a major injury in a single blow can sever a location causing instant death if it was a vital location.

Whenever you take a serious or major injury you make a resistance roll of the location's normal HPs versus the damage just caused. Call this is a pain test.

Serious injury to limb: pass pain test, no additional effect. Fail - dazed.

Serious injury to vital location. Pass pain test - dazed. Fail test - unconscious

Major injury to limb. Incapacitated. Will bleed out in CON+POW minutes unless treatment received. Pass pain test at -20% to remain conscious.

Major injury to vital location: incapacitated and will bleed out in CON/2 melee rounds unless treatment received. Pass pain test at -40% to remain conscious.

This may be an option for people who like hit locations but find that the HL+HP can be very fragile. There's a certain "die Hard" vibe because a character can take a lot of damage to different locations yet stay standing. It has quirks - the more tentacles you have, the harder you are to kill and Scorpion Men love it to bits - but seems like it could be a useful addition to the BRP toolbox.

[Trifletraxor]

The results for severing a limb seems a bit to light for my likings. You would realistically bleed out much before that if you didn't recieve immediate help.

SGL.

[deleriad]

The results for severing a limb seems a bit to light for my likings. You would realistically bleed out much before that if you didn't recieve immediate help.

SGL.

Well a limb would only be severed if the damage is done in *one* blow rather than as an accumulating effect.

Real world evidence is pretty patchy about the severity of severed limbs. Various stories of farmers getting their arms chopped off in a harvester and walking home with them exist.

For a severing injury I rule that a severed vital location is instant death. Severed non-vital location is a pain test: succeed equals bleed out slowly, fail equals bleed out quickly.

[Atgxtg]

The results for severing a limb seems a bit to light for my likings. You would realistically bleed out much before that if you didn't recieve immediate help.

SGL.

Probably not. When a limb is severed the body ususally goes into shock and constricts the blood flow to the limbs. This reduces the rate of blood loss. IT only lasts for a short time though, and eventually the limb will bleed out as expected.

[Trifletraxor]

Probably not. When a limb is severed the body ususally goes into shock and constricts the blood flow to the limbs. This reduces the rate of blood loss. IT only lasts for a short time though, and eventually the limb will bleed out as expected.

A severed femoral artery alone kills you very quickly. With the lower part of your arm you'd probably have more time though.

SGL.

[frogspawner]

A severed femoral artery alone kills you very quickly. With the lower part of your arm you'd probably have more time though.

Oh yes? How quickly, in reality? I use Total HPs, rolling location only on a significant (e.g. killing) blow - but then players have been expressing dissatisfaction with 'immediately' lethal blows to arms/legs.

[RosenMcStern]

An arm cut off with a sword slash will not kill the character in few seconds. He will probably survive for minutes if not more.

This may not apply to crushing blows or bullets, though. The mere impact can kill, even when you are hit in a limba. But we are talking of .45 bullets or troll mauls here, and I doubt this will happen all the times.

[Atgxtg]

A severed femoral artery alone kills you very quickly. With the lower part of your arm you'd probably have more time though.

SGL.

Not always. And very quickly usually translates into several minutes. In reality it is very difficult to kill s0omeone quickly. That is why modern police traning methods stress the fact that just becuase they shot the bad guy, doesn't mean he can't keep fighting long enough to injure the officer.

A lot of it boils down to the mindset of the guy being hit.

[deleriad]

This is an interesting conversation. My understanding is that real world data is, to say the least, contradictory and probably not a whole lot of fun to play in a game. I wouldn't betting that if you managed to accurately simulate real world injuries that it wouldn't look very convincing to anyone who's knowledge is based on films....

The net result of using Hit locations without general Hit Points seems to me to be that you get a more narrative type of system because you end up with two types of location: (vital and non-vital) and three types of injury: (minor, serious and major). Some major injuries are cumulative and some happen in a single blow.

This does mean that it's fairly intuitive. A minor injury to an arm sounds painful but not life threatening while a major injury to the head is dead or dying.

About 18 months of using this with MRQ has shown me that it makes characters about as rugged as the heroic HP option in BRP but with a grittier feel.

[Atgxtg]

I wrote up a wounding system for BRP, but like my of my uploads it was done before BRPS relase based on expeiernce with related systems. Other than canging the POW multipliers to Difficulties (easy, Normal, Difficult), it would still hold up for BRP.

The basic differences between RPG combat a real world is that things aren't as cut & dried. For example, in most RPG you can kill someone by inflicting more points of damage than the target has hit points. Reaasltically it doesn't quite work that way. A doez 1 point woulds really won't kill a person with 12 HP. At least not right away. What they will do is give the injured person a certain amount of time to take care of the problem before expiring.

Attidue is also a major factor and one overlooked by most RPGs. In the real world they used to train police by telling them that if they got shot they were as good as dead, hoping to press upon the officers the importance of using cover and not getting hit. Unfornately this resulting in a lot of fatialities since cops who got shot beleived that they were going to die.

Recently, training techniques have stressed that getting shot, while obvoisly life threatening, is often survivable, and as a result the percentage of cops who survive being shot skyrocketed.

What would really matter is just exactly where the target get's hit. In BRP all 7 point chest wounds are the same. But realtically, it is possible to hit the chest, miss all the vital organs, and inflict only minor damage. It also possible to hit several major organs in the chest and kill the the target before it hits the ground. Just not very likely.

[Trifletraxor]

This is an interesting conversation. My understanding is that real world data is, to say the least, contradictory and probably not a whole lot of fun to play in a game. I wouldn't betting that if you managed to accurately simulate real world injuries that it wouldn't look very convincing to anyone who's knowledge is based on films...

My guestimate would be that you would lose consciousness within half a minute, and die within two if nothing was done to stop the bleeding from a cut femoral artery. It's quite difficult to stop too. I think the RQ3 rules for severed limbs where pretty good. Anyway, what's really is important is what FEELS realistic to the players, not what actually is.

In BRP all 7 point chest wounds are the same. But realtically, it is possible to hit the chest, miss all the vital organs, and inflict only minor damage. It also possible to hit several major organs in the chest and kill the the target before it hits the ground. Just not very likely.

Nah, it's just that all 7 pts chest wounds do 7 pts of damage. The hit that miss all the organs and do only minor damage would do 2 or 3!

SGL.

[Atgxtg]

It's quite difficult to stop too.

Using a belt is probably the best option for a quick fix "in the field".

Anyway, what's really is important is what FEELS realistic to the players, not what actually is.

I don't know. I think it is what feels appropriate for the type of campaign being run. If you are running a supers game, then severed limbs and dying from bloodloss are pretty rare occurrences. If you are running a gritty and realistic military campaign, then you would probably want results that more accurately reflect the reality than BRP as it stands. But that's why we tweak.

Nah, it's just that all 7 pts chest wounds do 7 pts of damage. The hit that miss all the organs and do only minor damage would do 2 or 3!

SGL.

That's kinda why BRP doesn't handle modern settings as well as fantasy. In the game, a typical hit from a rifle will usually take out a hit location or cause a major wound, and two hits kill. Much more deadly that reality.