Saxon Ransoms

[creativehum]

I remember reading somewhere that Saxons can be ransomed (yes?)

Can anyone point me to where that is covered?

Can anyone tell me what the values might be? (Most likely compared against the vales of knights.)

Thanks!

[Morien]

Saxons! says: "Unlike good Christian knights, Saxons neither pay nor ask ransoms for captured foes." and "A Saxon whose cynnsman is improperly detained by foreigners will simply seek his healthy return, plus bot for the kidnapping." (Bot = compensation)

So that would indicate 'no'.

KAP 5.2: "Saxon Warriors: These foes try to kill the knight. If captured, they can be sold into serfdom (£1 each). " So no ransom there either.

However, Book of Battles 2, p. 83, does have ransoms for higher ranking Saxons (Heorthgeneat and higher). That's probably what you were after?

 

[creativehum]

Probably! Thank you!

But isn' this kind of paying a ransom?

Quote

"A Saxon whose cynnsman is improperly detained by foreigners will simply seek his healthy return, plus bot for the kidnapping." (Bot = compensation)

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by creativehum

[merlyn]

Since the "bot"/compensation would most likely be paid to the Saxon by his kinsman's captor, rather than to the captor by the Saxon, most likely not.

[creativehum]

Got it! Thanks!

[Uqbarian]

KAP 5.2 Table D.4 (page 249) also indicates that Saxon elites can be ransomed.

Re the passages from Saxons! , that paragraph also mentions that a very generous offer might induce Saxons to return a captured knight. 

Elsewhere in Saxons!, they are at least aware of the custom by Badon, as in one of the skirmishes they have the option of capturing knights for ransom (page 103). So I think there's plenty of wiggle room.

My take is that it's harder to organise ransoms for and from Saxons, particularly in the early phases, but not impossible. (Probably also easier for a king than a thegn, etc.) You could even make an adventure out of it -- finding out where the captive's family lives, getting messages back and forth or travelling there, learning about cultural differences, finding negotiators both sides can trust etc., all while trying not to succeed on Hate (Saxons) rolls or fail Hospitality. In the later phases, I'd say they've been around long enough to generally follow the custom.

 

[Voord 99]

 

5 hours ago, Uqbarian said:

Elsewhere in Saxons!, they are at least aware of the custom by Badon, as in one of the skirmishes they have the option of capturing knights for ransom (page 103). So I think there's plenty of wiggle room.

My take is that it's harder to organise ransoms for and from Saxons, particularly in the early phases, but not impossible. (Probably also easier for a king than a thegn, etc.) You could even make an adventure out of it -- finding out where the captive's family lives, getting messages back and forth or travelling there, learning about cultural differences, finding negotiators both sides can trust etc., all while trying not to succeed on Hate (Saxons) rolls or fail Hospitality. In the later phases, I'd say they've been around long enough to generally follow the custom.

For what it’s worth, there’s a (sort of) historical parallel.  The later Anglo-Saxons didn’t have ransoming important prisoners as a standard custom of their own, but they paid plenty of ransoms to Viking raiders, who had a practice of capturing important people and demanding payment for their return.   

Edited March 15, 2021 by Voord 99