Spare arms

[Kloster]

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I'm guessing from this that your PCs were not in the habit of dropping their packs at the start of fights if they weren't already on pack animals then, which was the habit locally all the way back to RQ1.

No, I don't drop my armor, my shield and my weapons.

Due to weapons breaking (more important with RQII than RQ III, I agree but it still occurs) and disarming rules, plus the fumbles tables and impaling, I usually start with 3 or 4 weapons on me, just to be able to finish the fight.

My current character has a ringmail armor (10 ENC), a broadsword (2 ENC), a hoplite shield (a scutum in fact, but ruleswise it is the same) (5 ENC), a kukri (0.5 ENC) and a dagger (0.5 ENC), plus 4 darts inside the scutum (2 ENC).

That means a minimum ENC of 20. I thus start at 5 (CON 13, STR 12).

I'm not counting a bow and a javelin (carried by my mount), nor the luggages and food (idem).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

No, I don't drop my armor, my shield and my weapons.

I didn't say a thing about dropping those. I said your "pack"; as in, your food, water, miscellaneous gear, and possibly missile weapon if that doesn't seem worth hauling around.

Due to weapons breaking (more important with RQII than RQ III, I agree but it still occurs) and disarming rules, plus the fumbles tables and impaling, I usually start with 3 or 4 weapons on me, just to be able to finish the fight.

A spare weapon was a good idea, but I don't think I ever saw anyone need more than one extra, and even one wasn't typically critical for someone who didn't parry with a weapon but used a shield. The only time you were particularly likely to lose a non-parrying weapon was on certain fumbles, and even then it was usually retrievable.

My current character has a ringmail armor (10 ENC), a broadsword (2 ENC), a hoplite shield (a scutum in fact, but ruleswise it is the same) (5 ENC), a kukri (0.5 ENC) and a dagger (0.5 ENC), plus 4 darts inside the scutum (2 ENC).

That means a minimum ENC of 20. I thus start at 5 (CON 13, STR 12).

I'm not counting a bow and a javelin (carried by my mount), nor the luggages and food (idem).

That's already more encumberance than I typically saw most characters of average attributes bother with. You'd see more on advanced characters, but they also typically had improved their Strength and Con by that time, and/or routinely augmented them magically; alternatively, they'd get by more lightly and use a lot of Protection or Shield.

[Kloster]

I didn't say a thing about dropping those. I said your "pack"; as in, your food, water, miscellaneous gear, and possibly missile weapon if that doesn't seem worth hauling around.

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Yes. :innocent:

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A spare weapon was a good idea, but I don't think I ever saw anyone need more than one extra, and even one wasn't typically critical for someone who didn't parry with a weapon but used a shield. The only time you were particularly likely to lose a non-parrying weapon was on certain fumbles, and even then it was usually retrievable.

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I have only 2 (the darts are throwing weapons): the kukri and the dagger.

And to loose a weapon, you forget the disarming rules and the impales. Even with 2 spare weapons, I have sometimes finished some fights barehanded.

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That's already more encumberance than I typically saw most characters of average attributes bother with. You'd see more on advanced characters, but they also typically had improved their Strength and Con by that time, and/or routinely augmented them magically; alternatively, they'd get by more lightly and use a lot of Protection or Shield.

We see that quite often, even with (not so) begining characters.

I agree with your comment on more advanced characters.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

I have only 2 (the darts are throwing weapons): the kukri and the dagger.

And to loose a weapon, you forget the disarming rules and the impales. Even with 2 spare weapons, I have sometimes finished some fights barehanded.

No, I didn't. I don't think I ever saw anyone bother to deliberately disarm; it was too unreliable and too transient. And spears, the common impaling weapons, weren't routinely used just for the reason of their potential loss; those that did were among those most likely to carry a backup.

We see that quite often, even with (not so) begining characters.

I agree with your comment on more advanced characters.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Most characters I saw during the early part of their careers focused on bezainted body and head equivelents, and got by with either hard leather limbs or at most studded. That was more than sufficient to take the edge off, and in cases where it wasn't, the extra point or two just wasn't that likely to help enough to matter.

[Kloster]

No, I didn't. I don't think I ever saw anyone bother to deliberately disarm; it was too unreliable and too transient. And spears, the common impaling weapons, weren't routinely used just for the reason of their potential loss; those that did were among those most likely to carry a backup.

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I pesonally have used disarm and have it used against me, but I agree this is rare.

But what I have seen and used is: Targeting the weapon to destroy it.

On axes and maces, this is a worthwile tactic. Versus swords, it is a bit longer, but it works also.

And in RQIII, the broadsword and the scimitar (the most common 1 handed swords) are impaling weapons. I have already lost (and recovered later) several time my sword that way.

I know it is not mandatory to use one's sword that way, but the impale bonus is often too tempting.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

But what I have seen and used is: Targeting the weapon to destroy it.

On axes and maces, this is a worthwile tactic. Versus swords, it is a bit longer, but it works also.

LOL. You reminded me of the time when one has his Great axe destroyed that way. With no backup weapon or shield, the character was in a bind. He survived, but developed the habit of putting Protection on his Axe during combat. Sometimes it was better protected that he was.

And in RQIII, the broadsword and the scimitar (the most common 1 handed swords) are impaling weapons. I have already lost (and recovered later) several time my sword that way.

I know it is not mandatory to use one's sword that way, but the impale bonus is often too tempting.

Well, most character I've seen carry some back up, if only a dagger. Since a backup sword is only 1-2 ENC, why skimp. Better to take the 2 FP hit.

Implaing weapons usually weren't a problem for us. Most of the time there way a conveniently placed body lying on the ground who just dropped his weapon.

Unless you are being double teamed or worse (bad news in RQ), you usually have time to retrieve your own weapon too.

Impaled and still a threat didn't come up that often. Stuck in a shield was the big nightmare.

[Kloster]

LOL. You reminded me of the time when one has his Great axe destroyed that way. With no backup weapon or shield, the character was in a bind. He survived, but developed the habit of putting Protection on his Axe during combat. Sometimes it was better protected that he was.

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I like using this versus 2 handed weapons. And 2h axes are especially vulnerable because of the low AP (compared to swords).

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Well, most character I've seen carry some back up, if only a dagger. Since a backup sword is only 1-2 ENC, why skimp. Better to take the 2 FP hit.

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If you look on the figure I gave, you know why I prefer dagger or kukri.

I prefer 1 ENC for 2 weapons than 2 for 1. Withy that, I'm almost sure to finish the fight armed.

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Implaing weapons usually weren't a problem for us. Most of the time there way a conveniently placed body lying on the ground who just dropped his weapon.

Unless you are being double teamed or worse (bad news in RQ), you usually have time to retrieve your own weapon too.

Impaled and still a threat didn't come up that often. Stuck in a shield was the big nightmare.

I prefer having my backup with me.

Agreed for the shield nightmare.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

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A spare weapon was a good idea, but I don't think I ever saw anyone need more than one extra, and even one wasn't typically critical for someone who didn't parry with a weapon but used a shield. The only time you were particularly likely to lose a non-parrying weapon was on certain fumbles, and even then it was usually retrievable.

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Have you ever had your shield rendered unusable.

I had and this is another reason to have a parrying weapon available (once because a dark troll destroyed it concienciously with his maul, and several others a bit too unwieldy because of impaled weapons stuck in it. I was happy to have something to parry with).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[drohem]

Most of my characters went for the standard layering combinations: soft leather with bezainted, cuibouilli, or ringmail.

Most of my dwarven characters could wear ringmail or scale over soft leather. Maybe a select piece here and there of something heavier like a helmet or weapon arm.

Of course, we had a house rule regarding dwarves: you would add 3 to their Size in regards to determining Hit Points and Fatigue scores and use their normal Size for Strike Ranks.

Maces were a staple of starting adventurers as well. I usually always had a backup weapon or two. I think every character I had carried a dagger just in case things got desperate.

[drohem]

oh...and "I love my shield!" :thumb:

[Kloster]

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Maces were a staple of starting adventurers as well. I usually always had a backup weapon or two. I think every character I had carried a dagger just in case things got desperate.

Idem for us.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Nightshade]

I pesonally have used disarm and have it used against me, but I agree this is rare.

But what I have seen and used is: Targeting the weapon to destroy it.

On axes and maces, this is a worthwile tactic. Versus swords, it is a bit longer, but it works also.

That might have been workable in RQ2, but by the time of 3, they had _way_ too many armor points for that to be useful unless you just had a monstrous damage bonus and they were heavily armored in the first place. You could easily take twice the time to break most weapons than it took to kill the wielder.

And in RQIII, the broadsword and the scimitar (the most common 1 handed swords) are impaling weapons. I have already lost (and recovered later) several time my sword that way.

I can't say I ever saw anyone do so locally; it happened with rapiers when they were used, but not longswords (I'm not sure I recall anyone as of RQ3 using a scimitar). Of course people were awfully fond of bastardswords, so perhaps there just weren't that preportionately many longsword users once they had the strength to move up.

I know it is not mandatory to use one's sword that way, but the impale bonus is often too tempting.

But that's probably why people _didn't use it; no one wanted to be disarmed just to get in one good hit. People willing to do that used spears in the first place, and they were a minority.

[Nightshade]

Have you ever had your shield rendered unusable.

I had and this is another reason to have a parrying weapon available (once

People lost shields sometimes, but to be honest, unless you took a lot of time to learn one as a backup, you weren't going to be worth a damn parrying with a backup weapon anyway. If you lost your shield, you were just as well off trying to parry with your weapon at hand; after all you could do that if it was all you had.

[Nightshade]

Most of my characters went for the standard layering combinations: soft leather with bezainted, cuibouilli, or ringmail.

I don't recall why anymore, but in RQ3 we almost never saw layered armor; I seem to recall there was some mechanical disadvantage that no one wanted to deal with.

[Nightshade]

oh...and "I love my shield!" :thumb:

Always the sign of an RQ player.

[drohem]

The only disadvantage for layering soft leather or heavy cloth under hard armor is you add the ENC of both armor suits/pieces. However, you also added the Armor Points together.

Now, if you tried to layer hard armor with hard armor, then you ran into trouble. You added the Armor Points of both armor suits/pieces, but you tripled the ENC of the lesser hard armor.

[Atgxtg]

The only disadvantage for layering soft leather or heavy cloth under hard armor is you add the ENC of both armor suits/pieces. However, you also added the Armor Points together.

Now, if you tried to layer hard armor with hard armor, then you ran into trouble. You added the Armor Points of both armor suits/pieces, but you tripled the ENC of the lesser hard armor.

I once saw a character wear four layers of armor. Plate over doublemail with padding. Great AP, but he couldn't fight for long. But it helped when going after a Dragon.

[Kloster]

I don't recall why anymore, but in RQ3 we almost never saw layered armor; I seem to recall there was some mechanical disadvantage that no one wanted to deal with.

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According to RQIII, you can carry 2 layers armor if:

1 - the innermost is soft armor

2 - the innermost has fewer AP than the outermost.

The consequence is that you add the AP and the inner ENC is doubled.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

That might have been workable in RQ2, but by the time of 3, they had _way_ too many armor points for that to be useful unless you just had a monstrous damage bonus and they were heavily armored in the first place. You could easily take twice the time to break most weapons than it took to kill the wielder.

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Don't forget that if you strike deliberately the weapon, you don't substract 1AP but the difference between AP and damage rolled.

A broadsword has 10 AP. If you do 12, it goes down to 8, not 9.

And the main advantage of hitting the weapon is that it is not protected by the shield. When your opponent has a hoplite shield (18 AP) or even a round (12 AP), that makes a BIG difference.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

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I can't say I ever saw anyone do so locally; it happened with rapiers when they were used, but not longswords (I'm not sure I recall anyone as of RQ3 using a scimitar). Of course people were awfully fond of bastardswords, so perhaps there just weren't that preportionately many longsword users once they had the strength to move up.

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This campaign is in Prax. We use the cultural weapons, so Lunar characters use scimitars, and non lunar don't. And for the bastard sword, in Prax, they are hard to get and terribly expensive, at least with our GM. And considering the access to metal, I find this logical, and I continue using my broadsword.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

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But that's probably why people _didn't use it; no one wanted to be disarmed just to get in one good hit. People willing to do that used spears in the first place, and they were a minority.

That's why I carry a backup weapon.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

People lost shields sometimes, but to be honest, unless you took a lot of time to learn one as a backup, you weren't going to be worth a damn parrying with a backup weapon anyway. If you lost your shield, you were just as well off trying to parry with your weapon at hand; after all you could do that if it was all you had.

If your weapon is a 1H weapon, you can't attack and parry with it in the same round. If I parry with my sword because I don't have a backup parrying weapon, I have to attack with my fists.

And a dagger is better than nothing.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Kloster]

People lost shields sometimes, but to be honest, unless you took a lot of time to learn one as a backup, you weren't going to be worth a damn parrying with a backup weapon anyway. If you lost your shield, you were just as well off trying to parry with your weapon at hand; after all you could do that if it was all you had.

By the way, an average dark troll (+1D6 DB) with bludgeon 1 on his Maul (2D8) destroy a round shield (12 AP) in 3 shots. Not very long to obtain, especially if the target is parrying with the abovementioned shield.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[drohem]

According to RQIII, you can carry 2 layers armor if:

1 - the innermost is soft armor

2 - the innermost has fewer AP than the outermost.

The consequence is that you add the AP and the inner ENC is doubled.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I guess your RQ3 is different than mine. According to RQ Deluxe Edition (softcover) p. 70, you add AP and ENC of soft armor (leather or heavy cloth). The ENC of the soft armor is not doubled.

[Kloster]

I guess your RQ3 is different than mine. According to RQ Deluxe Edition (softcover) p. 70, you add AP and ENC of soft armor (leather or heavy cloth). The ENC of the soft armor is not doubled.

P68 of player book, you are right, but on the errata:

"Points for Overlapping Armor

As described above, it is possible to wear soft armor under another armor to provide added protection. Hard armor may not be worn under any other type of armor. In any case, the outer layer of armor must be heavier than the inner (i.e., have more armor points).

The interior soft armor adds its normal AP to the total armor at TWICE normal ENC cost."

Runequestement votre,

Kloster