Questions about Pavis Historical Personalities

[Ian A. Thomson]

Hi there

I am just reading online things like according to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure Joraz Kyrem died in 885ST and had named sons, and they were Kings, and one of them invited Labrygon to build the Puzzle Canal in Pavis City in 920

Was this information also in the original Pavis pack or was it invented for the new Moon Designs release?

I will revise definitely my version of Pavis as I go if this information was in the original material,

But since it seems (and maybe I am mistaken about this) to actually contradict some things I discussed with Greg (such as Labrygon being present in Pavis much earlier).

So I'd be glad if someone could let me know, and then I can make decisions on what I will change in my version and what I won't

A lot of stuff will be easy to change and other stuff not so much

My only main major issue is that I was certain Greg agreed that the Puzzle Canal was present in 894ST, but it's been so long since we had our conversations that I could be mistaken

If it turns out I somehow missed out on a lot of history that was already established I may revise extensively

I may even end up changing everything except having Labrygon be there much earlier in my version

But I spent a LOT of extra time making sure that my material didn't contradict previous official info and also didn't contradict any well-developed fan info, so I am surprised that I somehow missed this stuff

Maybe now will be my chance to make up for that :)

Edited February 16, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Ian Thomson said:

Hi there

I am just reading online things like according to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure Joraz Kyrem died in 885ST and had named sons, and they were Kings, and one of them invited Labrygon to build the Puzzle Canal in Pavis City in 920

Was this information also in the original Pavis pack or was it invented for the new Moon Designs release?

The material was actually in Mongoose's Pavis Rises material but the origin of that I have no idea.

1 hour ago, Ian Thomson said:

But since it seems (and maybe I am mistaken about this) to actually contradict some things I discussed with Greg (such as Labrygon being present in Pavis much earlier).

Personally I would stick with what you originally decided as the Jonstown Compendium products are allowed to deviate from canon.  Perhaps there's a reason why the official history as according to the Cult of Pavis is denying Labrygon's earlier presence?

 

[Graeme P]

The reference to Labrygon being invited by King Jhanas Kyree (Yanas Kyrem) is on page 11 of Pavis Rises (Mongoose, 2010) and page 34 of Pavis:GtA (2012).  So it is some years after you did your original work.  I note Greg is thanked in the credits to Pavis Rises, read into that what you will.

I canot assist in illuminating why the change occurred though.

 

 

[Ian A. Thomson]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Personally I would stick with what you originally decided as the Jonstown Compendium products are allowed to deviate from canon.  Perhaps there's a reason why the official history as according to the Cult of Pavis is denying Labrygon's earlier presence?

Love it. Thanks :) Have to think about that. Or potentially he arrived early then left then was invited back :)

[Graeme P]

Or it started to have noticable effects from 920 so they put on the request etc. as a political cover even though the work was done in secret beforehand.  Were there factions against this and so the Arrowsmith dynasty went behind / around the Council?  All just conjecture, but that is where stories and adventures come from.

[jajagappa]

10 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

I am just reading online things like according to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure Joraz Kyrem died in 885ST and had named sons, and they were Kings, and one of them invited Labrygon to build the Puzzle Canal in Pavis City in 920

Bear in mind this is 700 years prior.  Two questions come to mind: 1) does it matter for the present? and 2) would anyone even remember, or care if they did?

 

[soltakss]

I would leave it vague.

P&BR has Joras Kyrem setting up as King and his sons being Kings, but does not link him with the Puzzle Canal.

 

[Ian A. Thomson]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:15 AM, soltakss said:

I would leave it vague.

P&BR has Joras Kyrem setting up as King and his sons being Kings, but does not link him with the Puzzle Canal.

 

Yes, vague is one possibility

But the info I have it at currently contradicts what is in the Mongoose publications

What I aim to do is read the Mongoose publications and see if there are only minimal contradictions (which is what I have always taken effort to do, and wish those authors had done for my material) :)

If the contradictions are minimal then I will adjust my material to make it vague, or to match theirs

[Ian A. Thomson]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:05 PM, Graeme P said:

The reference to Labrygon being invited by King Jhanas Kyree (Yanas Kyrem) is on page 11 of Pavis Rises (Mongoose, 2010) and page 34 of Pavis:GtA (2012).  So it is some years after you did your original work.  I note Greg is thanked in the credits to Pavis Rises, read into that what you will.

I canot assist in illuminating why the change occurred though.

That contradiction has been relatively easy to solve :)

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

But the info I have it at currently contradicts what is in the Mongoose publications

What I aim to do is read the Mongoose publications and see if there are only minimal contradictions

I'd suggest avoiding reading/using/referencing the Mongoose publications altogether.  Those are not licensed for use in the JC publications.  As for inclusion of Greg's name, it was a Glorantha license so I expect his writings had to be credited, but that does not mean you need to try to incorporate them (or that you can include them). 

Edited February 18, 2022 by jajagappa

[Ian A. Thomson]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

>>I'd suggest avoiding reading/using/referencing the Mongoose publications altogether.  Those are not licensed for use in the JC publications. <<

I will be looking at them, but not using/referencing or quoting. My philosophy is that if I can with minimal effort avoid contradicting their material, why not. I won't be going out of my way to rewrite my version to make it fit theirs

>>As for inclusion of Greg's name, it was a Glorantha license so I expect his writings had to be credited,<<

I was in extensive email consultation with Greg while developing the P&BR Companion, so he was intrinsically involved

>>but that does not mean you need to try to incorporate them (or that you can include them). <<

Really not sure what you mean by 'them' in 'incorporate them'. I am writing about Pavis and the Big Rubble, spinning off of ideas by Greg Stafford and Steve Perrin. Many of my articles Greg generously gave me advice on and ideas for, so his thoughts were involved too

Edited February 18, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Really not sure what you mean by 'them' in 'incorporate them'. I am writing about Pavis and the Big Rubble, spinning off of ideas by Greg Stafford and Steve Perrin. Many of my articles Greg generously gave me advice on and ideas for, so his thoughts were involved too

I mean that Mongoose publications are not included in the Jonstown Compendium license - i.e. you can't just pull content from them (e.g. Pavis Rises) and include in your JC works.  If there is something in those that you believe Greg wrote, you need to discuss with Chaosium (Jeff or MOB) to determine whether you can include before you publish.  Otherwise, you may find your work has to be pulled from JC because you violated the JC license terms.

[Ian A. Thomson]

No worries. We are somehow discussing something I have no plans to do, and never had plans to do, so all good

Sorry if I somehow gave a mistaken impression

 

I am looking at that old material just to see if I can make tiny adaptations of my own so as not to directly contradict big stuff they say

NOT to take any information from them

And I have no idea if they consulted Greg or not. I was mentioning Greg only in reference to my own work

Edited February 18, 2022 by Ian Thomson