New / Young players and RuneQuest.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 9/2/2022 at 6:20 AM, smiorgan said:

This confirms my impression. And it seems recent game designs try to keep math to a minimum. .......

 

I have been thinking about this for a few days and I feel called on to object that

(1) "math" is not the source of most of the complexity in Runequest rules,

(2) and also that it is not in children's interest to dumb things down by removing what is really simple math.  I am afraid that removal would give a message that "math is too much for you" and removes a practical and personal use which ( if retained ) may subtly encourage them to not be innumerate.  

Occasionally my work in marketing research gave me reason to believe that innumeracy disadvantages people almost as often as illiteracy.

[Jeff]

5 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I have been thinking about this for a few days and I feel called on to object that

(1) "math" is not the source of most of the complexity in Runequest rules,

(2) and also that it is not in children's interest to dumb things down by removing what is really simple math.  I am afraid that removal would give a message that "math is too much for you" and removes a practical and personal use which ( if retained ) may subtly encourage them to not be innumerate.  

Occasionally my work in marketing research gave me reason to believe that innumeracy disadvantages people almost as often as illiteracy.

I agree fully. Math is not complex in RQ - there are "complex systems" in RQ but kids have no problem navigating those (you should watch my 12 year old play games like Terraforming Mars or Agricola, which have far more complex systems). 

[Baron Wulfraed]

5 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

I have been thinking about this for a few days and I feel called on to object that

(1) "math" is not the source of most of the complexity in Runequest rules,

(2) and also that it is not in children's interest to dumb things down by removing what is really simple math.  I am afraid that removal would give a message that "math is too much for you" and removes a practical and personal use which ( if retained ) may subtly encourage them to not be innumerate.  

Occasionally my work in marketing research gave me reason to believe that innumeracy disadvantages people almost as often as illiteracy.

In my experience, the most complex math in RQ is the critical/special/normal/fail/fumble % -- and that is in an easily printed tabular format that could be provided to the players.

Now, if the players can't manage simple addition of damage dice, that is a different matter -- blame the school system 🧐

[Beoferret]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:43 AM, Rob Darvall said:

Percy Jackson would give evidence to the contrary.

My nephews are fans, and now 5 of 6 play RQG. As well as both my children and my niece. Of these 8 (none over 23, youngest now 11ish) 5 run their own games as well as the larger family campaigns.

That's a really good point. I totally forgot about the Percy Jackson phenomenon, which is a pretty big oversight.

[Jeff]

On 9/7/2022 at 6:43 AM, Rob Darvall said:

Percy Jackson would give evidence to the contrary.

My nephews are fans, and now 5 of 6 play RQG. As well as both my children and my niece. Of these 8 (none over 23, youngest now 11ish) 5 run their own games as well as the larger family campaigns.

Yep. My daughter (age 10) is a huge fan of Greek mythology - not because of me, but because of Percy Jackson, and things like Goddess High School. 

[Lordabdul]

On 9/7/2022 at 1:23 PM, Baron Wulfraed said:

In my experience, the most complex math in RQ is the critical/special/normal/fail/fumble % -- and that is in an easily printed tabular format that could be provided to the players.

In my experience, the blocking factor about RQ's crunch isn't age or education or even mathematical skill, it's personal taste. Some people just don't like crunchy systems, whether it's tables or multiplications or whatever. Some people don't even like roll-under systems. I like crunchy systems and even I find RQ too crunchy (and have been advocating for a big streamlining of the rules ever since I got into RQ). I'm sure young people are just as likely to like/dislike RQ as anybody else. And I assume many old-time RQers got into it as teenagers anyway.

 

On 9/8/2022 at 7:57 AM, Beoferret said:

That's a really good point. I totally forgot about the Percy Jackson phenomenon, which is a pretty big oversight.

My 13-year-old has read all of the Percy Jackson books and all their spin-offs and indeed knows a whole bunch about mythology that way. My younger kid is reading the D'Aulaires book directly. Of note, Rick Riordan has been investing a bunch of his success into other authors from other backgrounds, so if you look into the "Rick Riordan Presents" series, you'll find books in the same vein as Percy Jackson but dealing with Aztec/Mayan mythology, Hindu mythology, and so on, so my kids got some basic knowledge from those pantheons too.