Best of luck to my American Friends!

[Bill the barbarian]

51 minutes ago, g33k said:

Some will also think, "well, kind of ... but  'the partisan problem'  is much worse with those guys" (note that this occurs on both sides).

It is, truly! That is why I thought to have a hippy dippy peaceable type of topic. It would be easy to not talk to "those people" or "them" or (fill in descriptor of choice) but talking is better than the alternatives, I suppose. Eff predicted a good and peaceful outcome to me and as usual she was correct. Being a neighbour, I am pleased. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

... It would be easy to not talk to "those people" or "them" or (fill in descriptor of choice) but talking is better than the alternatives, I suppose ... 

Talking generally *is* better than the alternatives, yes!

But talking about politics...

on social media ...

which BRPC is ! ...

Maybe it's not better (here)?

Maybe it forces people to take their stands, die on their hills-of-gold, and drag the gaming site off-topic and down into the undead marsh...?

There are some initiatives, efforts to get people (on opposite sides) to sit down together f2f over a cup of coffee or etc; talk, and listen.  I don't think they have borne enough fruit to have much influence, yet... OTOH, this election seems to be delivering a very-Purple result (neither Red nor Blue), with some stinging rebukes to both parties.

[Bill the barbarian]

I was perfectly happy for this social experiment to die on the good note we had achieved... and still am. With luck it can now go away and the conversation, as you say, can go on where it belongs—in public agora across your nation... and hell, for that matter my nation! 

So, nachos, eh?

Edited November 11, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[svensson]

I can easily identify with with the 'extreme partisan shift' issue. I strongly feel that the voices on the lunatic fringes of the Left and Right are getting entirely too much airplay and credence for their positions. And the news media and internet sites are NOT helping.

For those who don't know, and I mean no condescension or disrespect here, it works like this: It's a development of the old newspaper editor's adage of 'If it bleeds, it leads'. Consumption of news, be it viewership, news subscriptions, or internet clicks, earns revenue, so in order to get that revenue every news source has to get you, the customer, to click that bait. This requires outlandish and misleading headlines that 'process' the actual facts of the news story to fit one group or another's narrative of events. Left wing papers tilt the language one way and right wing tilts the same story their way. Eventually, this process illuminates one one viewpoint over any others and this feeds the extremist worldview.

There's an excellent expose on this phenomenon specifically about 'cancel culture', but it can easily translate into news culture. It's called '15 Minutes of Shame' and was produced by Monica Lewinsky... and say what you will about her, I think we can all agree that she knows a lot more about this subject than most of us.

 

[g33k]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:49 PM, svensson said:

... For those who don't know, and I mean no condescension or disrespect here, it works like this: It's a development of the old newspaper editor's adage of 'If it bleeds, it leads'...

There is also the "media bubble" effect, where we read/view/etc the stories that "feel right" to us, and then the algorithms of the big internet players say
Oh, that's what you like?
Here, have some more!
And before very long at all, we no longer see anything except the extreme position.

It began, I think, innocently enough:  trying to serve the market.  Turns out there's some pretty massive unintended consequences...
And it's happening algorithmically, without major human oversight.

To be clear -- we are, each of us, at least partially complicit.
Our own confirmation-bias keeps our noses to the grindstone of our respective bubbles.

(Don't think that a "moderate" position saves you, either, @svensson -- if you dismiss all extremes out of hand, you also dismiss what are sometimes very legitimate issues!  Sometimes, a "balanced" or "all-sides" view leads to treating/reporting the truth and a lie as being co-equal, because that's "balanced".)

Edited November 13, 2022 by g33k

[Bill the barbarian]

Sorry folk, but seems we have drifted seriously off topic. This has nothing to do with wishing luck, an I wonder if a new topic could be made.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[g33k]

19 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Sorry folk, but seems we have drifted seriously off topic. This has nothing to do with wishing luck, an I wonder if a new topic could be made.

Sorry, Bill!  Best of luck to this country, indeed!

I'll reiterate my original point, though, that this election seems to have been rather "purple " -- the much anticipated "Red Wave" didn't happen, but neither were the (D) candidates/party immune to startling disappointments...
(R)s unexpectedly flipped seats in "blue" New York; not just one, but several.  The supposed "swing state" of Florida seems to have "swung" deeply-red (if the (D)'s can't be competitive there, that's gotta be deeply-disturbing to their long-term electoral hopes!)

I'm hoping -- maybe foolishly, but hoping -- that the all-too-common "screw the Other Side (even at the cost of good governance)" political policies might just soften in the face of the fact that margins are looking razor-thin, and the public hasn't so much "gone red" or "gone blue" as they seem to have "gone to the middle" and (largely, with some notable exceptions) rejected the extremes.

I'm hoping -- maybe foolishly, but hoping -- that we'll see a bit more "reaching across the aisle;" and that such efforts will be successful & productive & good for the country, a demonstration that while extremism may play to "the base" (of the respective extremes), it isn't good for the party (neither party!) as a whole, nor for the country.  Finding common ground and working there is the right way to do it.
 

Edited November 14, 2022 by g33k

[Bill the barbarian]

54 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'm hoping -- maybe foolishly, but hoping -- that we'll see a bit more "reaching across the aisle;" and that such efforts will be successful & productive & good for the country, a demonstration that while extremism may play to "the base" (of the respective extremes), it isn't good for the party or the country.  Finding common ground does.

Me too, dialog seems to help. Who knows, maybe family holiday meals can become festive again!

An open question, did I hear of a recent bipartisan committee (do not know where or which level of government) working to alleviate gerrymandering in its sphere of influence?

Assuming the folk who host this lovely gaming site put up with our sh!t er, our loverly topic, and this continued interest in wishing America luck, well... continues... let's keep this area civil to a fault. Very serious here good folk. We all know the problems, I do not think they need a forum (but if so, please do make one else where SVP) to discuss them. But, should this joint's doors remain open for biznesss, what wonderful things can we find, and discuss to bring about the discourse that fosters democracy. Our lovely American friends deserve no less.

Personally, I think this area has run its course and should be left in cobwebs for now, but as they say in Missouri (or is that Missourah), SHOW ME!

Gads, have I created a zombie topic that refuses to die?

Edited November 14, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[g33k]

1 minute ago, Bill the barbarian said:

...

An open question, did I hear of a recent bipartisan committee (do not know where or which level of government) working to alleviate gerrymandering in its sphere of influence?

...

There are several individual states with such initiatives.  One problem, of course, is that the partisans simply take the fight to questions of "how to control -- and who controls -- the bipartisan committee?"

Overall, the gerrymandering-problem remains pretty severe.

Also:  I am liking the way "Ranked Choice + Majority" voting works, I think.  Most states AFAIK use simple "plurality" voting, and it's far too easy for a minority of the vote to carry the day.  But this may be another branch that goes off-track...

[Bill the barbarian]

8 minutes ago, g33k said:

But this may be another branch that goes off-track...

Only if common niceties; like curtesy, decency and sense, are left in one's pockets. Brought out into the fresh air as they should be... well, who knows? Again, you warn against the problems this topic can cause and that the topic will derail, and when I suggest the topic's doors be closed and the flag be taken down, and y'all post a new item... Should I take you serious good sir g33k or are you taking a page from my barbarian's handbook, and pulling our collective legs? 

🙂

[g33k]

58 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Only if common niceties; like curtesy, decency and sense, are left in one's pockets. Brought out into the fresh air as they should be... well, who knows? Again, you warn against the problems this topic can cause and that the topic will derail, and when I suggest the topic's doors be closed and the flag be taken down, and y'all post a new item... Should I take you serious good sir g33k or are you taking a page from my barbarian's handbook, and pulling our collective legs? 

🙂

Dunno, Bill.
How many legs has your collective got?

(more seriously -- while off-topic for simple "well-wishing," I was offering "ranked choice" as another positive sign for the advancement of democracy)

But sure... if the thread has run its course, I'll be the first to toss a shovel of dirt onto the coffin.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

How many legs has your collective got?

This is truly odd, not being the joker for once... 

 

1 hour ago, g33k said:

(more seriously -- while off-topic for simple "well-wishing," I was offering "ranked choice" as another positive sign for the advancement of democracy)

Yes, I got that sense. Thanks, anything positive works quite well here.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

But sure... if the thread has run its course, I'll be the first to toss a shovel of dirt onto the coffin.

We shall see. It seems to not die... It has risen a couple of times and remains very (astoundingly) civil! Perhaps we could be a beacon of hope for the internet... just don't invite them in for a peek, eh.