Help with creature selection

[Grimmshade]

In my campaign, I've had one PC acquire an item similar to the puzzle box in the Hellraiser films. I'm looking for suggestions for the Lovecraftian equivalent or replacement for the cenobites. I was originally thinking the Elder Things, but they don't quite fit what I'm looking for. 

Any ideas?

[Sam E.]

That's a tough one.  Barker seems so different from Lovecraft to me, I'd have some trouble picking equivalents.  I suppose Leviathan is a bit Lovecraftian in some ways.  And the Cenobites were humans once, so perhaps they could be cultists who have acquired enough magic / incomprehensible science that they've achieved Cenobite-like powers.  They've invented their own mythology around Leviathan, not realizing that they don't really know anything about what it really is, but have created the puzzles to test people for recruitment and/or sacrifice.

[Sam E.]

Me again.  Did some Googling and found this thread:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cthulhu-vs-hellraiser.192237/

The Mi-Go suggestion isn't bad.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Sam E.

[EldorfDragonsbane]

You could always have it contain a Shoggoth Lord or a Flying Polyp or a Star Vampire. A Mi-go is also another nice idea. One could also go with an old Ghoul that could end up becoming an ally for the Investigators (if they dont try to kill it first), willing to teach them the Ghoul Language or impart upon them the location of a Mythos Tome  (could be a small short scenario in itself to retrieve the tome) that may help them in an upcoming scenario.

[Grimmshade]

2 hours ago, Sam E. said:

Me again.  Did some Googling and found this thread:

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/cthulhu-vs-hellraiser.192237/

The Mi-Go suggestion isn't bad.

I just used Mi-Go in a side adventure, but I like some of the other suggestions in that thread as well as your idea that they may be very warped and misguided cultists. 

I might go with a corner of the dreamlands thing, with the puzzle being the key. The cenobites are other searchers who have solved the puzzle and been "enlightened."

[teo twawki]

Seems to be a case perfectly waiting to have a critter made up to fit. Create something new. Riffing off a Y'golonac embodiment, perchance...

[Atgxtg]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:34 PM, Grimmshade said:

In my campaign, I've had one PC acquire an item similar to the puzzle box in the Hellraiser films. I'm looking for suggestions for the Lovecraftian equivalent or replacement for the cenobites. I was originally thinking the Elder Things, but they don't quite fit what I'm looking for. 

Any ideas?

Think of who (or what) put the creature in the box in the first place, and why. That should help to suggest the creature inside the box. 

Some possibilities:

• A shoggoth was trapped in the box by the Elder Things during their war is an obvious choice as is anything else that has a known enemy.
• The box might be one of the few ways to trap a Hound of Tindalos that had been hunting someone.
• Almost anything could have been put in the box by the Great Race of Yith to get back to later.  BTW, this could mean some non-mythos being, such as a human from another era in time. Maybe even some historical figure who disappeared mysteriously. Heck, maybe it's the lost Legio IX Hispana, Amelia Earhart, or even some person from the future (which would be easier to do if you are running in a game set in a past era, since you have knowledge of future events). So you could really think outside the box here. 
• Maybe the box is empty, or at least seems to be when it is opened. Then strange things happen because an invisible creature such as a Star Vampire was released. 

[EldorfDragonsbane]

Got to thinking some more on this. What about a creature from the Dreamlands, such as a couple Lords of Luz or even a single Zoog?

[Grimmshade]

6 hours ago, EldorfDragonsbane said:

Got to thinking some more on this. What about a creature from the Dreamlands, such as a couple Lords of Luz or even a single Zoog?

Dreamlands is definitely what I'm going with. (Unfortunately, it will mostly be out of canon Dreamlands, as I find Lovecraft's dream stories not very compelling, and thus I know almost nothing about them.)

The puzzle "box" is a key to a dream land that was found / formed by some fringe scientists, who now worship some Mythos entity there. The scientists are now the cenobite-like beings. (Again, I'm unfamiliar with which Mythos entities exist or hold sway in the Dreamlands.)

[EldorfDragonsbane]

14 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

The puzzle "box" is a key to a dream land that was found / formed by some fringe scientists, who now worship some Mythos entity there. The scientists are now the cenobite-like beings. (Again, I'm unfamiliar with which Mythos entities exist or hold sway in the Dreamlands.)

For the most part it would be entities such as Nodens and Bast along with the Moon-Beasts and their slaves the Men from Leng. The Entities such as Yog-Sothoth, Cthulhu, Etc... have little presence as they were barred for the most part from the Earth Dreamlands (henceforth simply referred to as Dreamlands), though from there you do have access to Azathoth if you travel through space to him. Only major Mythos Entity that has any real presence in the Dreamlands if Nyarlathotep though his various avatars.

You also have the Ghouls that reside in the Dreamlands, and make their forays into the Waking World (the world where the characters live and reside when not dreaming and traveling the dreamlands) to raid the cemeteries for food.

While not for 7th edition, I would suggest getting the Dreamlands PFD https://www.chaosium.com/h-p-lovecrafts-dreamlands-pdf/ it is $18.95 from Chaosium. Tbhis will give you the idea of who are the major players in the Dreamlands. It should be fairly easy to convert to 7th ed, as I have done that already for a couple of other previous edition books (Arkham, Innsmouth, and Kingsport) that I borrowed last week from a friend for a scenario I am planning on running in the Arkham area, with a possible trip to Innsmouth to pick something up to deliver to Kingsport.

[EricW]

Lovecraft's The Haunter of the Dark might be a good template

Humans discover a horrific artefact which summons a being who provides insane magical revelations in return for blood sacrifice. The old "church" congregation was arrested and shut down, but the creature (possibly a manifestation of Nyarlathotep) still manifests in the Church of Starry Wisdom, which nobody dares to enter. Once the monster makes contact with your mind you're doomed. 

If the church hadn't been forcefully shut down, the worshipers likely would have become coenobite like - totally twisted and revelling in their wicked inhuman knowledge, rapidly losing their connection to humanity. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by EricW

[Grimmshade]

16 hours ago, EricW said:

Lovecraft's The Haunter of the Dark might be a good template

Humans discover a horrific artefact which summons a being who provides insane magical revelations in return for blood sacrifice. The old "church" congregation was arrested and shut down, but the creature (possibly a manifestation of Nyarlathotep) still manifests in the Church of Starry Wisdom, which nobody dares to enter. Once the monster makes contact with your mind you're doomed. 

If the church hadn't been forcefully shut down, the worshipers likely would have become coenobite like - totally twisted and revelling in their wicked inhuman knowledge, rapidly losing their connection to humanity. 

Hmmm.... Since we are playing Masks of Nyarlathotep I do like the idea of tossing in another Nyarlathotep connection and form!

[Gray Raven]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:44 PM, Grimmshade said:

Dreamlands is definitely what I'm going with. (Unfortunately, it will mostly be out of canon Dreamlands, as I find Lovecraft's dream stories not very compelling, and thus I know almost nothing about them.)

Lovecraft's Dreamland cycle is more fantasy than horror, seemingly lacking bite and the taste of Cosmic Horror.

You should check out Gary Myers's The Country of the Worm: Excursions Beyond the Wall of Sleep, 2020.  Those stories are set in Dreamland, but they definitely bite back with a vengeance.  Things rarely end well for either Dreamers or natives of the realm - so they are written in the same vein as Lovecraft's Mythos stories.  Myers's stories are dreadful cautionary tales of the awfulness that hides in the dark corners of the realm - evoking nightmares rather than wistful sweet dreams of complacency, which is often the case of Lovecraft's own tales. 

[Gray Raven]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:34 PM, Grimmshade said:

I'm looking for suggestions for the Lovecraftian equivalent or replacement for the cenobites

Grimmshade, how does it go bringing the cenobites into your game?

Your post got me thinking about them.  I thought I would start with something you might already know about them but was new to me.  I started by looking up the term cenobites.

I discovered this: 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cenobite

Etymology
From Old French cenobite or Ecclesiastical Latin coenobīta, from coenobium, from Ancient Greek κοινόβιον (koinóbion, “community life, convent”), from κοινός (koinós, “common”) + βίος (bíos, “life”).

Pronunciation[edit]
enPR: sĕnʹə-bīt', sēʹnə-
IPA(key): /ˈsiːnəbaɪt/
Noun
cenobite (plural cenobites)

A new or recent member of a Greek monastic religious order; a caloyer.
A monk who lives in a religious community, rather than in solitude.
(Fiction) A torturous demon creature made famous by the Hellraiser series.

So, to begin with, these humanoid beings are cultists who live in a particular religious order.

This is, of course, the background that Clive Barker gave to his cenobites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenobite_(Hellraiser)

The Hellbound Heart says the Cenobites are also known as "The Order of the Gash".^[3] Cenobites were once human, having transformed to their current state in their pursuit of gratification.^[4] Cenobites are so removed from their former humanity and so dedicated to exploring physical experience that they no longer distinguish between sensations of pleasure and pain. Humans who summon the Cenobites, either by accident or in hopes of experiencing pleasures unknown on Earth, are often taken to their home dimension and become "experiments" in discovering the limits of physical experience, resulting in torture for eternity.

The association with Nyarlathotep seems a natural one.

One of the manifestations of Nyarlathotep comes to mind:

SKINLESS ONE, THE
A muscular human whose skin has been stripped off, leaving only musculature, sinew, and bone. Sometimes, the Skinless one has a third eye in the center of its forehead. It stands 8 feet (2.4 m) tall, and the air around it crackles with power.

Malleus Monstrorum Volume II: Deities of the Mythos © copyright 2006, 2020pg 151 

Then there is this:

From Malleus Monstrorum Volume II: Deities of the Mythos © copyright 2006, 2020, pages 160-161:  

KRUSCHTYA EQUATION
The Kruschtya Equation is a mathematical equation which, when solved, causes Nyarlathotep to manifest. The Equation is a highly sophisticated piece of quantum mathematics far beyond the comprehension of most human minds. Even those who have the wherewithal to solve the formula are liable to spend thousands of hours to do so.
Cult: Kruschtya Group
While not worshiped in the same manner as other avatars, this cosmic equation is known to certain advanced alien races, such as the mi-go, shan, and Yithians. The people of K’n-yan may also be aware of the name. Common to those aware of the equation, is the belief that its solution brings power. The equation is mentioned in a handful of tomes, although its name often differs (sometimes known as the Cosmic Principle or Devil’s Therum), with accompanying text suggesting this mathematical puzzle was set by a god, and that in solving it, one may become a god. On Earth, the Kruschtya Equation is something of a myth among mathematicians. Legend tells of its discovery by Professor Gunther Kruschtya, who then mentioned the equation to various colleges. Despite calls for Kruschtya to share the material he had found, he grew more secretive and refused, stating that he alone should be the one to produce the solution. In time, Kruschtya devoted all of this time to this work, causing his professional work to suffer and was consequently dismissed from his employment. Little was heard thereafter, with rumors suggesting the professor was consumed and obsessed, and never more ventured out in public. The fate of Kruschtya remains a source of conjecture, as when old colleagues finally decided to pay him a visit he and his work were gone, believed to have been consumed in a house fire. Subsequently, Kruschtya, the equation, and his tragic fate continue to provide an ideal topic for late night conversations among the scientific community. There is talk that some who have heard the story of Kruschtya banded together in a bid to find and then solve the equation themselves, with this collection of academics, scientists, and enthused amateurs calling themselves the Kruschtya Group. To date, no word has appeared to suggest the group has achieved their aims.

This all seems very reminiscent of Clive Barker's Hellraiser series mystical puzzle box, the Lemarchand Configuration.  I've never seen the movies or read the books, but from what I gathered, the solving of that puzzle box brings the cenobites to you.  I would simply assume that the puzzle box was the creation of Nyarlathotep.  The Cenobites could simply be the result of Mythos magick offered up by Nyarlathotep.

Well, what do you think?