A couple of questions on Orlanthi clan structures and physical structures

[Super Thunder Bros.]

So reading through King of Sartar I now have a rough idea of Orlanthi Clans vs Tribes and tribal confederations. I'm putting together a custom clan and had a few queries:

 

1 - In terms of clans and tribes what kind of settlements would serve as enters of power? Forts an villages for a clan's Chieftain and a town for a Tribal King? (Are cities only for tribal confederations?)

2 - Are Orlanthi clans likely to just feud or descend into all out war? Is that more of a tribe vs tribe situation?

3 - I want my clans local trade town to be something like a wild west or a Mad Max Bartertown situation. Think The Warriors style groups feuding and fighting to be in charge of the settlement, large underground space for each of the factions. It's a place of trade and whoever's in charge get's the profits. All out war is bad for business but gang wars between groups do pop up (May even throw in a Thunderdome!)

Would this work better as clans within a tribe feuding over a settlement or differing tribes in a loose and tense confederation?

[Manunancy]

2) the orlanthi aren't well-suited for all out war since most of the troops are part-time warriors only. Full-time warriors are a small minority (even if the ratios is higher in war clans who ad tributes to their normal production)

3) a trade town is probably under the tirbal king's control - and probably has the area's larger Issaries temple to manage trading operations, take in taxes and send his cut to the king. Rather than true gang wars, you'll probably se a lot of breibery, blackmail and espionage along with various agetns provocateurs trying to lead the competition into something they can get hammered for. Open fights will more likely occur outside with carava nattacks and the like. Worhipers of Valind and Gagarth make good muscle for that, along with orlanthi outlaws.

[Daesta]

Most material I’ve seen presents the tribal confederation’s city as the local trade town, and each clan having its own central settlement, sometimes - but not always - a hillfort.  As to there being a settlement that is the seat of the tribal “king”, not so much a thing since the tribal king is a member of one of the clans of the tribe.  And the king’s “court” moving between the settlements of its member clans. 

But - if you’re creating your own clan and such for your own game - my tip would be to take an eraser and “de-canonise” a whole tribal area for your game, and then create what you want.  For example, in a past game I pretty much erased everything written about the Dinacoli tribe (not much really) and put in my own clans and settlements.  
In your case - creating a central trade settlement for your tribe’s feuding clans isn’t world-breaking - just the way things are done in that tribe.  And if MGF for you is a tribal king as an ageing vingan dressed in piecemeal armor, the tribal champion is a great troll who carries its human “master” around, and tribal justice is dispensed by an ancient artifact in the form of a “wheel of justice” - then why not.

 

Edited February 17 by Daesta

[Super Thunder Bros.]

11 hours ago, Daesta said:

Most material I’ve seen presents the tribal confederation’s city as the local trade town, and each clan having its own central settlement, sometimes - but not always - a hillfort.

Ooh good stuff in your post thank you! Just to check, here are you talking about a tribe's city or a confederation city like Jonstown?

[Daesta]

Hmm, I was referring to the confederation city (like Jonstown) as the main "trade center" for a tribe.  

Some useful links:
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/tribes-clans-of-sartar/
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-tribes-of-sartar-1625-1626/
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/rural-sartar-urban-sartar/
... and if you make it past the bit about the word "Mayor" vs "Rex", there's a bit of discussion of Town vs City here:
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/city-rex/
 

[Bohemond]

To answer question 1: most clans have a single village (but a few have two). Most people live in small steads that might have some small out-buildings like a cow byre. So the village is where the clan gets together for social functions, worship, and politics. 
 

The same pattern is true at the tribal level. The clans are villages linked together around a larger settlement that is typically fortified so it can act as a center of refuge during times of strife. 
 

The same pattern is true at the confederation level. Several tribes band together to support a town, which will typically have better fortifications than a tribal fort. 

[Super Thunder Bros.]

On 2/17/2024 at 8:30 AM, Daesta said:

In your case - creating a central trade settlement for your tribe’s feuding clans isn’t world-breaking - just the way things are done in that tribe.  And if MGF for you is a tribal king as an ageing vingan dressed in piecemeal armor, the tribal champion is a great troll who carries its human “master” around, and tribal justice is dispensed by an ancient artifact in the form of a “wheel of justice” - then why not.

 

Oh this is gold I gotta say! I will run with this, thank you so much 

One thing I was wondering, reading about Jonstown I really like how the cities are presented with citizens etc And I really want to emphasise the urban nature of the Orlanthi

With this in mind would not-Bartertown work better as a town under a tribe or a Jonstown style city with feuding tribes?

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, Super Thunder Bros. said:

Oh this is gold I gotta say! I will run with this, thank you so much 

One thing I was wondering, reading about Jonstown I really like how the cities are presented with citizens etc And I really want to emphasise the urban nature of the Orlanthi

With this in mind would not-Bartertown work better as a town under a tribe or a Jonstown style city with feuding tribes?

Swenstown might become such a bed of problems with Kallyr gone and the Dundealos reforming, and grievances connected to the Lunar Temple project simmering.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:39 PM, Super Thunder Bros. said:

3 - I want my clans local trade town to be something like a wild west or a Mad Max Bartertown situation. Think The Warriors style groups feuding and fighting to be in charge of the settlement, large underground space for each of the factions. It's a place of trade and whoever's in charge get's the profits. All out war is bad for business but gang wars between groups do pop up (May even throw in a Thunderdome!)

i imagine that this local situation can be found in an oasis in Prax;

You will find a nomad clan (your gang)

- brutalizing the local helpless oasis people

- extorting the potential mobile merchants

- managing access for the local (and ridiculous) trade place, and, most importan,the water water and the grass

 

there may be a lot of competition:

- with other clans of the same tribe, probably a tradition of  little assistance but decorated by some jealousy (the wealth, the slaves, the love, ...)

- with other "peaceful" clans from other tribes, leaders may not accept the leadership of this clan  (or even this tribe) "It is not because we are in peace that they have right to appropriate this oasis where my ancestor installed his tents one century ago)

- with neutral clans. "I need water for my beasts why do you refuse ? I accept to pay" "the price you request is too high" " I want to trade, give me respect"

- with hostile clans. "Let's wait for the night and we will raid the oasis once they are drunk. We will have good meat and new women tomorrow"