Can someone take me through a gun fight?

[Lloyd Dupont]

I am somewhat confused on how it works...

And I am working on a spying adventure in the universe of Master of Orion, blaster shots will be fired!
(I mean, unless they do the whole operation on the hush hush or run flawless hovercar escapes?)

[Raleel]

Gun fights are deceptively simple because, by default, there are no reactive defenses. So, by default, it's roll to see if you hit. That's if you are firing fast projectiles.

The other thing that is very odd is the take cover action - you move to cover. I try to think of it as taking advantage of what is there, positioning yourself behind it, and so on. With take cover, I allow a fair bit of movement - like half of their walk rate.

*Destined* allows evading of firearms, but it is a superhero setting. 

[Lloyd Dupont]

Let's go in details across a few scenarios to see how it is solved.

First, the classic swat team assault scenario. Against a few (or many?) bad guys. Usually employing both overwhelming force (i.e. both superior numbers and body armor) and the element of surprise. I guess they can just stand around and shoot.

However, even they do take cover.... How does cover work? I imagine it mean even if one "succeed the attack roll" one must also make a location roll that can be covered location? (reducing the overall chance of harm)... is that it? Lying on the ground is not quite cover how does it work? (hard roll against small target)

Now further along the fight, both party safely behind cover. How does anything happen? I guess people need to move... so there are sneaking and listening checks... There are crossings of area without cover. So I guess there is Delay actions that can take effect during an enemy movement (otherwise turn by turn allow people to stay always in full cover, if not for Delay action, right?). How does Delay shoot during movement? normal skill roll BUT with an opportunity for evade (even against firearm)?

Doing suppressing barrage on an open area... I guess this one is easy, it requires the initiative to shoot first.. and remove the evade roll if crossing that particular area? (though if blind shooting will incur sever shooting skill !) also... the enemy can see the area is unsafe. and also might reduce everyone perception (lots of noise)

I think I covered the various manouvers an tactic at play here?

also shooting moving target incur skill penalty...

[lawrence.whitaker]

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However, even they do take cover.... How does cover work? I imagine it mean even if one "succeed the attack roll" one must also make a location roll that can be covered location? (reducing the overall chance of harm)... is that it? Lying on the ground is not quite cover how does it work? (hard roll against small target)

Cover works exactly as described on pages 102 and 103 of the Mythras core rules, or page 47 of Mythras Imperative.

Lying on the ground: Ranged Combat Situational Modifiers table, page 108.

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Now further along the fight, both party safely behind cover. How does anything happen? I guess people need to move... so there are sneaking and listening checks... There are crossings of area without cover. So I guess there is Delay actions that can take effect during an enemy movement (otherwise turn by turn allow people to stay always in full cover, if not for Delay action, right?). How does Delay shoot during movement? normal skill roll BUT with an opportunity for evade (even against firearm)?

This is a combination of movement (if running from cover to cover), and ideally with some supportive suppressing fire, and the Sneak Peek and Take Cover Combat Actions described in the Firearms supplement, or page 38 of Mythras Imperative. Delay can be used to wait until an opponent exposes a vulnerability.

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Doing suppressing barrage on an open area... I guess this one is easy, it requires the initiative to shoot first.. and remove the evade roll if crossing that particular area? (though if blind shooting will incur sever shooting skill !) also... the enemy can see the area is unsafe. and also might reduce everyone perception (lots of noise)

Rules for automatic fire, pages 48-50 of Mythras Imperative.

In general, Evade is tough against firearms as it also leaves you prone. That might make you a smaller target, but also makes it tougher for you to get out of the line of fire.

Gun combat also has some unique Special Effects too: Drop Foe, Over Penetration and Pin Down can all be extremely effective when used properly. However, gun combat feels, and plays out, very differently to melee combat.

[Raleel]

Loz covered it, but let me emphasize a point - gun combat feels very different than melee or even archaic ranged weapon combat. Having no option to evade (normal people, say) really changes things a lot. You become A LOT more tactical, constantly looking for cover unless you are very heavily armored.

Armor is a thing too - most modern body armors don't cover the arms or legs with anything significant. This makes you pretty likely to take a serious wound to a limb. To get the right feel, I wouldn't change this, and I would use small calibers at first - type 3 vests and 9mm is PLENTY for most firefights. Moving directly to 5.56 or 7.62 rifles is going to feel very rocket tag without some practice.

 

[clarence]

I can confirm what has already been said. Gun fights are quite different, as they should be. In my sessions, there is a lot of hiding behind stuff, sneak peeks and drop foe. But also tactical movement to get behind the enemy, smoke for cover and a combination of sniping and firing from the hip. Taken together, fights have been really tense.

My favourite example is two PCs hiding behind crates in a 1920s warehouse. Five gangsters approached slowly from three directions. One PC was a good shooter and dropped two low-level gangsters, clearing a way out. The remaining gangsters fired, but shooting from the hip at moving targets was a waste of bullets. From a cinematic viewpoint, the scene was very successful. 

[lawrence.whitaker]

We really should produce a Firearms Combat Training Module.

[Raleel]

I talked about such a thing with Dan a while back, but didn't feel like I had a clear enough message I was teaching. It definitely makes people pause when faced with it.