Shadow Sacrifices

[Erol of Backford]

I was looking for how PC's could complete the Shadow Sacrifices to gain some "Shadowlord" powers or something... maybe darksense or other secrets of the Darkness?

A series of sacrifices/offerings that the Hendriki may make to appease the Kitori or to become a Kitori? I was thinking to assign troll deities to each task but am not sure. Is it a Hero Quest of sorts?

• Blood at Garanstone - Zorak Zoran
• Flesh at Gavrenstone - Kyger Litor
• Alder's Side at Finovan's Grove
• Sheep, Cattle and Black Horse at Dekko Crevice - Hilmile or 
• Coldfire Rock - Argan Argar 
• Blue Boat on the Syphon River - Xiola Umbar
• Living Bear and ten dead deer at Kesten Rock - Zong
• To the tree woman at Borenger's Grove - Mee Vorala

Curious has anyone ventured to develop this related to old Kitori rites or something of the sort?

Guessing all are done at night, Dark Season, would need to assign a troll deity to each of the events. 5-6 high holy days for troll deities are in Darkseson on the old Gloranthan Calendar.

Are there troll or human Kitori shaman who might leads the humans along the path of a Shadow Lord? Maybe it's a spirit of a troll or human that used to be a member of the Kitori Tribe that has reason for assisting humans to be made Shadow Lords?

Not all are listed of course just those I was easily able to associate somehow without knowing details of each of the 8 stations of what might be a Shadow Sacrifice Hero Quest path?

Argan Argar - He is usually carved from igneous rock. Would any of the landmarks above be made of igneous rock by chance?

Asrelia - Among trolls she is symbolized as a bowl carved from granite. Any of these formations granite? Likely I'd not use her as gut feel she isn't trollish enough...

Aranea - what is the most dangerous spider of the Heortland Plateau? Easy enough to use something like Webspire Island from Griffin Island with a shrine at the top where an offering needs to be made?

Gorakik - Humans depict Gorakiki as an enormous and terrifying version of whatever insect wreaks the most havoc in their native land. Possibly one of the sites has a giant carving of say a praying mantis or beetle, etc. what would a task be associated with insects? Possibly Royal Jelly?

Hilmile - though hollri would be fun to integrate into these tasks, to me it not likely that severe cold would be one of these besides maybe Dekko Crevice?

Kyger Litor - the idea of chewed rock has me guessing that the sacrifice of Flesh at Gavrenstone would be fitting for Kyger Litor?

Mee Vorala - maybe she is the tree woman, fungus growing on the tree or something? Does a this task take the PC's to the Munchrooms?

Xiola Umbar - She is symbolized as a clay pot inscribed with a healing charm on the exterior, and a mouthless face on the inside bottom. Maybe Blue Boat - Syphon - does it have something to do with healing or purifying as the Syphon carries away the chaos ichor down the Toe Hole. (Jaja do you know where Blue Boat is?) Might there be a shrine to Xiola somewhere near there or possibly just outside the village? Guessing its closer to the Print than Backford?

Zong - His image is usually made from a sling ball with simple facial features cut into it. Assume Kesten Rock

Zorak Zoran - He is illustrated as an old three-eyed man or troll - guessing blood and likely Garanstone Besides the Hill of Gold, IIRC is there a Hero Quest with Orlanth versus Zorak Zoran and if so please share the reference?

I like the idea of Hendriki/Aeolians as Shadow Lords or at least having some of their powers, whatever they might be. Yes the could also be Night Jumpers in addition...

Alder's Side - what is it if it's not bark from a tree? Maybe an effigy of an elf with wood-branches from an Alder tree? The Law-Song of Heort talks about trees not to be felled without comunal magical support... https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/GloranthaDigest/vol07/4178.html Heort's laws... no felling tress.. maybe the Shadow Sacrifices require an elf...

If you are a king you should know the prerogative of a ruler, refreshment according to rank, [resolving] contentions of hostings, [punishments for] stickfights in an alehouse, [invalidity of] contracts made in drunkenness; valuations of lands, measurement by poles; [limits upon] augmentations of a penalty, [punishment for] larceny of tree-fruit.

Coldfire Rock - no note as to what and so maybe it boasting and or poetry in Darktongue while standing on the Rock at night which results in a dual or something, the trolls hear some crazy human boasting in terrible Darktongue and after a while the trolls send someone to shut them up. Who knows it might be a minor Hero Quest, Orlanth versus Zorak Zoran or another troll deity?

Maybe Blue Boat is one of the yellow highlighted villages in the 2nd clip along the Syphon?

Any suggestions/thoughts appreciated.

Thanks all.

 

Edited August 11 by Erol of Backford

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Coldfire Rock

"Fires burnt upon this rock consume their fuel without heat or bright light. Since before the Dawn, the local tribes and clans offered sacrifices here to placate spirits and things of Darkness. The tribes stopped making the sacrifices after Belintar became God-King, except during the brief period of Kitori rule. There are many burial mounds here of Second Age kings and heroes..."

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Might there be a shrine to Xiola somewhere near there or possibly just outside the village? Guessing its closer to the Print than Backford?

Shrines to Xiola Umbar are in the Troll Woods. She is not worshiped outside of Kitori lands.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Blue Boat on the Syphon River - (Jaja do you know where Blue Boat is?)

No, not a village. I think you want to check out the Owderian Way in the Esrolia book, p.51. "In the days when people first started to die the event was a mystery. Owder told them what to do. The kin of the relatives did what they had been told and sent the corpses on their way to the House of the Dead. One method was to put the bodies into a boat and launch it to sea or upon the river. This was called the Owderian Way, because Owder instructed people on it. The Owderian boats floated over the waters bearing their silent treasure, always going to the House of the Dead." 

[Note: this was in the days when the Rivers still flowed uphill. The Syphon is the only river that still does that, so this would be relevant. Blue is also the color of a corpse, so a Blue Boat would be a boat bearing a corpse.]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Aranea - what is the most dangerous spider of the Heortland Plateau?

There are giant web-spinners deep in the Troll Woods up against the Storm Mountains.

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Possibly one of the sites has a giant carving of say a praying mantis or beetle, etc. what would a task be associated with insects?

Feeding them fungus....

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

• Blood at Garanstone - Zorak Zoran
• Flesh at Gavrenstone - Kyger Litor
• Alder's Side at Finovan's Grove
• Sheep, Cattle and Black Horse at Dekko Crevice - Hilmile or 
• Coldfire Rock
• Blue Boat on the Syphon River - Xiola Umbar
• Living Bear and ten dead deer at Kesten Rock - Zong
• To the tree woman at Borenger's Grove - Mee Vorala

Garanstone is where Garan Low-star the Star Captain came to earth, so sacred to Yelmalions.

Gavrenstone is associated with Gavren, one of Yinkin's children.

Finovan's Grove is associated with the Thunder Brothers (Finovan being one of them).

Dekko is Ty Kora Tek.

Kesten Rock is Kesten Mountain: "Kesten Mountain, reaching 2350 meters, is one of the high western peaks of the Storm Mountains.  It is made of hard granite and stands above the end of the Footprint [i.e. directly to the north where the Troll Woods overlooks the Footprint]. There are several wind children aeries on the eastern side of the mountain." [So, yes, that is igneous rock/granite.]

As for both Finovan's Grove and Borenger's Grove, they are part of the Burbendra Groves

"Deep within Sen Senrenen and bordering the Troll Woods are the ancient groves of Burbendra, a daughter of the Lady of the Wild. Unlike the woods around, the groves are large, open sites within the woods, carefully tended by the local clans.  The two most famous groves are Borenger’s Grove, where the tree woman lives; and Finovan’s Grove, where the Alder Man and Finovan gambled for a bow, a fan, and a breeze.  Hunters bring offerings here and take vows of loyalty to the Lady of the Wild or the spirits of the groves. It is sacrilege by all the hunting cults to slay any beast or destroy any tree within the groves. Any who do so are sure to be cursed, hunted, or haunted until they make restitution."

Edited August 11 by jajagappa

[Erol of Backford]

So now all that is needed are the tasks to be ironed out and then define what any shadow lord powers might be if all tasks are completed/accepted by task givers.

Very helpful Jaja, as always and thanks!

[Joerg]

Shadowlord sacrifices - these sound like they have to do with the Kitori Shadowlords collecting the Shadow Tribute, but it isn't quite clear to me whether they are propritiatory in nature (keeping the Shadowlords mollified) or whether they are some preliminary requirement for joining the followers of the Only Old One whose job it is to offer mutual tribute and protection while gaining the Nightcult abilities to shift shape between birth form, Troll (unless born as Troll, then human) or Dehori.

I don't think you could be both a Night Jumper and a Shadowlord unless you are an (Arkati) Illuminate and manage to keep the mutual memberships secret. Also, it would be hard to participate in both groups' sacred activities. The Nightjumpers might well require a Hate Trolls or Hate Darkness passion. Well, maybe Fear Darkness might be applicable to both - Fear is a healthy form of respect for the powers of Darkness.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Shadowlord sacrifices - these sound like they have to do with the Kitori Shadowlords collecting the Shadow Tribute, but it isn't quite clear to me whether they are propritiatory in nature (keeping the Shadowlords mollified) or whether they are some preliminary requirement for joining the followers of the Only Old One whose job it is to offer mutual tribute and protection while gaining the Nightcult abilities to shift shape between birth form, Troll (unless born as Troll, then human) or Dehori.

They are certainly propitiatory offerings as part of the Shadow Tribute.

Whether they also represent tasks/steps to join the Only Old One is another question, but if so, then you'd need to work out more of the reasons why (e.g. how they aid Darkness). Some may be fairly clear: Garanstone is a variant on the Hill of Gold from the ZZ perspective where you must strip Fire from the Star God.

[mfbrandi]

23 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Argan Argar - He is usually carved from igneous rock. Would any of the landmarks above be made of igneous rock by chance?

18 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Fires burnt upon [Coldfire Rock] consume their fuel without heat or bright light.

Igneous rocks are cooled, solidified Fire in Gloranthaspeak, so “Coldfire Rock” has the right AA triumph over Lodril vibe, no?

Magma is Fire from the Underworld — the secret of the what within where, now? — and the Fire–Darkness relationship is as intimate as you want to make it. 😉

[Erol of Backford]

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

I don't think you could be both a Night Jumper and a Shadowlord unless you are an (Arkati) Illuminate and manage to keep the mutual memberships secret.

Of course the mutual memberships are and it is secret. The PC's meet Erekanst in the Beyond the Building Wall scenario and are inducted as Arkati. They love trollball and use sorcery to change shape from human to troll when needed. I don't think being a Shadow Lord means being you cannot kill trolls?

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Whether they also represent tasks/steps to join the Only Old One is another question, but if so, then you'd need to work out more of the reasons why (e.g. how they aid Darkness). Some may be fairly clear: Garanstone is a variant on the Hill of Gold from the ZZ perspective where you must strip Fire from the Star God.

Of course I have not thought about passions and runes as of yet, was just trying to get the stations of the Shadow Sacrifices sorted out. You guys were going to do this for me and put something drivethrurpg.com for me to purchase! Kind of kidding, I'll need to work out the relations to Darkness and was attempting to start that by assigning a troll deity to each location or station if it turns out to be some sort of hero quest.

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

“Coldfire Rock” has the right AA triumph over Lodril vibe, no?

I can't believe I forgot to note Argan Argar, maybe he's a fit for Coldfire Rock...

much more work needed.

Thanks all!

 

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I don't think being a Shadow Lord means being you cannot kill trolls?

The Night Jumpers are foes of the Kitori tribe. The Kitori are the tribe that provides the Shadowlords, becoming a Shadowlord is sort of the same as joining their warband elites.

[jajagappa]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I don't think being a Shadow Lord means being you cannot kill trolls?

Being a Shadow Lord is being either: one of the OOO's tribute collectors or being the leader of the Kitori. These are leaders of trolls, and while killing another troll might occur during a challenge or duel, it would not make sense otherwise.

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Of course the mutual memberships are and it is secret. The PC's meet Erekanst in the Beyond the Building Wall scenario and are inducted as Arkati.

Being Arkati is NOT being a Night Jumper. The Night Jumpers are human Orlanthi who hate the Kitori and trolls - they are not going to be able to fulfill the conditions to become a Shadow Lord. Quests to become a Shadow Lord would entail proving you are one with Darkness and support/protect the trolls (pretty much anathema to the Night Jumpers).

The Arkati are generally troll-friendly. 

[Erol of Backford]

11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Being Arkati is NOT being a Night Jumper.

Understood they are opposites... however being Arkati for me insinuates being illuminated... and so don't follow cult rules when it hinders growth?

[metcalph]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Understood they are opposites... however being Arkati for me insinuates being illuminated... and so don't follow cult rules when it hinders growth?

Arkati are more likely to use their illumination when heroquesting rather than joining multiple cults to abuse their magics.

[jajagappa]

14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

however being Arkati for me insinuates being illuminated... and so don't follow cult rules when it hinders growth?

For most Arkati that you might find in the Holy Country or Dragon Pass (which are few), I suspect their core goal is Hunting Gbaji (and his minions) and will use their Illuminations to root out such. They are the ones who are aware of the "Gbaji Mythos" after all (if you don't mind borrowing a bit from Cthulhu).

[Joerg]

16 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Understood they are opposites... however being Arkati for me insinuates being illuminated... and so don't follow cult rules when it hinders growth?

Being Arkati means that your path may lead you towards Illumination, but there will be about the same proportion of un-illuminated Arkati as you will find un-illuminated Lunars. Not that you could tell without experiencing Illumination yourself, of course. The Arkati have many other secret truths ("nostrum") that they jealously guard from others, stuff that may concern the Hero Planes and Heroquesting. Unlike the Lunars, the Arkati lack any central authority, or any unified philosophy. The God Learners were rather efficient in preventing any Arkati escaping their crusade from reaching the truths by their founder, which results in the splintered situation that defines Safelster and relations between different groups of Arkati. While the great God Learner dissident Halwal sought to re-unite Arkatism as his allies against the crumbling God Learner empire, the best re-unification he could provide was to unite the liberated Arkati of his time behind three rivaling leaders with rather different agendas.

One of the core tenets of Arkatism - illuminated or not - is respect for the body of myths that make up Godtime. Personal advancement only comes into this when required to conserve and protect Godtime and the resulting reality of TIme better against powerful foes ready to disrupt everything for their goals.

 

Most of the remaining Arkati of Kethaela are part of the House of Black Arkat with its (secret) temple at or near Arkat's Hold in the Esrolian North March. While once upon a time conflated with the Kitori Shadowlords, the Arkati secret school and the Kitori seem to have gone separate ways after the struggles that culminated in the Tax Slaughter.

There are other Arkati in the region - Ethilrist is suspected to have Arkati roots or leanings, and Mularik Ironeye seems to head a group of Fornoari Arkati now in the wake of Argrath. There may be more variations or groups. One of Minaryth Purple's informants was Jalques de Galin, a Lhankor Mhy apprentice with ancestral Arkati knowledge.

[Erol of Backford]

20 hours ago, metcalph said:

abuse their magics

Shadow Lords who can jump well... not such an abuse for me but I'd see Arkati using more sorcery than abusing cult vows. Also if the Shadow Lords' powers are gained via Hero Questing (might be, not sure) there may be no cult restriction being ignored? Who knows what the tasks are to become a Shadow Lord and or what powers might be gained? I'd imagine it'd be like Hero Questing to obtain lost Larnsting powers but not being an Orlanthi?

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

(if you don't mind borrowing a bit from Cthulhu)

Not at all, I found an old Cthulhu monster book the other day and saw a good number of the monsters as perfect chaos tainted beings... easily very deadly. Fun stuff.

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

stuff that may concern the Hero Planes and Heroquesting

There is an old Arkati tower that is easy enough to use to further investigate the Hero plane!? Maybe the PC's find said tower and learn of the Arkati and chose to dislike or even oppose them. Its all great game fun. befriend the wizard and have an uneasy relation with trolls and human Arkati?

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

the Arkati lack any central authority, or any unified philosophy

Perfect for displaced PC's as I see it. I love the wanderer type campaign rather than a tight clan hierarchy or have always played that in the past though a good number of players want the strictness of a clan structure? Saying "no one can tell you what to do" fits well here.

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

One of the core tenets of Arkatism - illuminated or not - is respect for the body of myths that make up Godtime. Personal advancement only comes into this when required to conserve and protect Godtime and the resulting reality of TIme better against powerful foes ready to disrupt everything for their goals.

So the Arkati really didn't like what the God Learners had been doing... never thought about it. I tend to think the opposite when it comes to Arkati and there own personal gains. it seems like they a portrayed as the Men in Black types but deep down they all wish to be Arkat... not agreeing they are not interested in personal power, just a gut feeling.

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Most of the remaining Arkati of Kethaela are part of the House of Black Arkat with its (secret) temple at or near Arkat's Hold in the Esrolian North March.

I like the old 1989 note in the Troll Cults book: "The Temple of Black Arkat: In the Holy Country, in the land of Heortland, is the House of Black Arkat. This is a temple of the cult which teaches sorcery to initiates and is, in every way, just like the troll cult, except that all its initiates are human." This could be mostly made up of Kitori but they seem feral and backward compared to what I would assume the sophisticants of the House of Black Arkat at least in my Gloranth.

They surely have a base of operations in Nochet... maybe, just many its at the Giant's Mill Stone, to be accidently located by some LM researcher doing their thesis?

Wasn't trying to get into a debate, just looking to what a Shadow Lord was and how you could become one, the tasks.

(Not related but Jaja, what is the sign of the four corner ward that protects against curses and hostile magics?)

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

They surely have a base of operations in Nochet... maybe, just many its at the Giant's Mill Stone, to be accidently located by some LM researcher doing their thesis?

Of course, it's a tenement house with ground floor tavern and "shrine" right next to the Kafl Leaf Inn in the Deresagar district.

G88. Arkat’s Rest. Ralians, some trolls, and others who favor grim Arkat come here to honor the ancient hero. Locals usually make the sign of the four-corner ward in passing to protect against curses and hostile magics.

If you like or listen to the Rumors:

• A shadowy brotherhood devoted to Black Arkat exists in Nochet but the temple’s true location is hidden.
• Now that Belintar is gone, the Black Arkati have returned and are invoking their ancient spells.
• Queen Samastina's new Spellman is one of the sinister Arkati.

 

Quote

(Not related but Jaja, what is the sign of the four corner ward that protects against curses and hostile magics?)

I would have thought somewhat obvious - what Rune has Four Corners??? 🙂 

(i.e. Humakti make the sign of the Death Rune/Cross; Nochetites make the sign of the Earth Rune, aka the four-corner ward; etc.)

Edited August 14 by jajagappa

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

just looking to what a Shadow Lord was and how you could become one, the tasks.

To all intents and purposes, a Shadow Lord is what an Argan Argar Rune Priest is called. 

[Erol of Backford]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Arkat’s Rest

But this is way too simple. No respectable Arkati would be caught dead in there or so I hear. The real secret shrine is somewhere much more better hidden underground. Sorry just had to post this:

 

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But this is way too simple. No respectable Arkati would be caught dead in there or so I hear. The real secret shrine is somewhere much more better hidden underground.

That's why the Arkati so enjoy this! The conspiracists will clearly think this way, and be convinced the hidden shrine must be elsewhere - hidden underground, or in the Dark Warrens, or secreted off in some cellar. Meanwhile the Arkati sit and relax in the tavern or the neighboring Kafl Leaf Inn and listen to the rumors going round.