Looking for feedback on my power system, some (house) rule questions

[Lloyd Dupont]

First I wonder about some XP costing.
For learning spells (or perk) one need to spend 1~4 XP (i.e. spell level) (or 1/3/5 for perk) and then roll a research check. There is a chance that the research process fail, and the XP is wasted. With a teacher one gets 2 chances: learn check or teach check. I wonder if this is going frustrate the players too much (they spend the XP, pay a teacher, who fail his goddam roll...)
To soften the blow, I was thinking to have retries only cost 1 XP.

For Parry, perhaps because I have trouble remembering all the size of various weapons (ok, my bad, there isn't that many, I didn't really try, I am old!) but also because 1. I wanted an easy/common way to damage weapons and 2. I also wanted a range of perk and magical items that increase damage a bit each (say an average of 2 each, but sometimes more) or defensive abilities (bonus parry AP) I decided to use Parry AP value instead of comparing weapon sized for the effect of a parry. But I worry that players will get frustrated to roll attack damage and nothing happen quite often. Am I being stupid here (perhaps not the right question for a productive discussion, but hopefully you get the idea! 🙂 )

Combat Styles. As I was thinking on the process on how PC might want to learn more and more weapons. I was thinking to have each character with a starting Combat Style skill including 2 cultural weapons. Later they can spend N perk points (those are precious, limited to INT overall) to add N weapons to their style (perhaps with malus 20% for secondary weapons, perhaps with skill requirement as well, like 60% for 1 perk, 90% for 2 and 120% for 3)
Of course, players can also learn a new Combat Style (with any 2 weapons this time) but that will be paid in XP instead of perk points.
While this setup is somewhat arbitrary, does it seem reasonable?

Edited August 29 by Lloyd Dupont

[Nozbat]

There are definitely people who will answer this with fine detail. I'm probably not the best to comment on rules as I really tend to be rules-lite. Having said that I'm going to comment anyway 😵‍💫

2 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

For learning spells (or perk) one need to spend 1~4 XP

I would make spells researchable with time spent in research and study needed. The length of time would depend on the spell. At the end of the period of research there would be a POW or INT roll (your choice and could be a x1 to x5 multiplier depending on rarity or difficulty of the spell) to absorb the learning and an associated XP cost. I believe that would get rid of the frustration of spending XP with no gain. The issue for players is that they need to spend the time studying/ learning / researching which will take them out in game time. You can then use Grimoires as ways of learning new spells. 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

common way to damage weapons

This sounds complex and will take a fair amount of admin for the players and GM to track weapon damage in complex combats. I guess if you are not using weapon sizes you are already simplifying combat. However you then miss the tactical advantage of keeping someone at arms length with a longer weapon or having someone with a shorter weapon inside the guard of someone with a pike. 

But I like simplicity. My thought would be to make parrying weapon damage a Special Effect. I sense you are using a Mythras system? Used as a Special Effect you could either break the attacking or parrying weapon or partially damage it. I think that option is more elegant than another administrative task for the GM. I say GM as I think the biggest difficulty is for GMs keeping track of all the GMCs weapons, HPs, Major wounds etc in a large scale combat. Less is more in my opinion.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Combat Styles. As I was thinking on the process on how PC might want to learn more and more weapons.

I'd just split up the different types of weapons: Slashing, Stabbing, One-handed Thrusting, Two-handed thrusting, Impact, 2-handed swords etc and have a different combat style for each. 

Players picking up a broadsword could equally use a longsword. A club and mace could be considered equivalent etc.

Missile weapons could be treated the same way and if you have black powder weapons they can also go into categories. 

Specialist fighting could also be a Combat Style ie Dueling, Knife fighting, Street Combat, Holmganging (since you are doing Vikings).

I'm not sure how your Perk system works or fits in with this so I'll not comment on it

[Lloyd Dupont]

22 hours ago, Nozbat said:

I sense you are using a Mythras system?

Very observant of you! 😄 

22 hours ago, Nozbat said:

I'd just split up the different types of weapons: Slashing, Stabbing, One-handed Thrusting

While I would not use this exact differentiation (because, for example, swords are both cutting and thrusting depending on the circumstance) the real problem here is more fundamentals. To be proficient in sword, shield and bow here you need 3 skills. Magic is "difficult" in my system because it uses between 1~5 or 6 skills. But with a minimum of 2 I'd say. And with XP used to develop your skills, more skills mean more XP required. But suddenly, with this suggestion, becoming a fighter is suddenly XP intensive as well! Making Magic not that hard, comparatively!

22 hours ago, Nozbat said:

I would make spells researchable with time spent in research and study needed. The length of time would depend on the spell. At the end of the period of research there would be a POW or INT roll (your choice and could be a x1 to x5 multiplier depending on rarity or difficulty of the spell) to absorb the learning and an associated XP cost. I believe that would get rid of the frustration of spending XP with no gain. The issue for players is that they need to spend the time studying/ learning / researching which will take them out in game time. You can then use Grimoires as ways of learning new spells. 

Basically, you would forfeit XP cost in favor of time (I also used time AND XP). I mean XP is a bit of a fuzzy thing, what is a "XP" hey?
An idea that crossed my mind, as I read your suggestions, I could remove the XP cost as well. And use XP to add reroll in case of failure (unlimited reroll). This way no XP needed but XP let PC be the hero and learn everything fast!
Good brainstorm outcome! 🙂

22 hours ago, Nozbat said:

On 8/29/2024 at 7:38 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

common way to damage weapons

This sounds complex and will take a fair amount of admin for the players and GM to track weapon damage in complex combats

I was thinking the following recipe. Each weapon come with AP (which is effectively the parry AP), the first 1 or 2 damage in excess of parry AP is inflicted to the weapon. The rest goes through.

Oh... you mean keeping track of all NPC's weapon HP? Good point! I didn't consider it!
Although I think I could use some GM handwaving/cheating. Only doing it well only on "named NPC" or the like. It's mostly here to stress the players and possibly destroy their precious magic weapons. I mean if they get their hand on a sword of disintegration, I will try hard to destroy it, or at the very least make them sweat about it... Although, using sword and shield, they will not parry with the sword, hence my ploy is already failing. Mmmm...

Although (1) I also like to destroy those annoying shield, so it's not a total loss.
Although (2) I think I misread combat resolution for years (😯OMG! Who would have thought! ) and using "damage weapon" effect might be simply the way to go and much more useful than I initially thought. And simply give a size modifier (+0.5) to my perks and magical augments...

The last one annoying bit with the default parry system though, parrying with natural weapon does not inflict any pain on your arms / limb... Which my tweak did though! So I guess I have to think some more.

 

 

Edited August 30 by Lloyd Dupont

[RosenMcStern]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

First I wonder about some XP costing.
For learning spells (or perk) one need to spend 1~4 XP (i.e. spell level) (or 1/3/5 for perk) and then roll a research check. There is a chance that the research process fail, and the XP is wasted. With a teacher one gets 2 chances: learn check or teach check. I wonder if this is going frustrate the players too much (they spend the XP, pay a teacher, who fail his goddam roll...)
To soften the blow, I was thinking to have retries only cost 1 XP.

Precious, non-recoverable resources spent for no effect because of a failed roll? Frustrate is not the right word. Try "infuriate".

 

On 8/29/2024 at 11:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

For Parry, perhaps because I have trouble remembering all the size of various weapons (ok, my bad, there isn't that many, I didn't really try, I am old!) but also because 1. I wanted an easy/common way to damage weapons and 2. I also wanted a range of perk and magical items that increase damage a bit each (say an average of 2 each, but sometimes more) or defensive abilities (bonus parry AP) I decided to use Parry AP value instead of comparing weapon sized for the effect of a parry. But I worry that players will get frustrated to roll attack damage and nothing happen quite often. Am I being stupid here (perhaps not the right question for a productive discussion, but hopefully you get the idea! 🙂 )

You have correctly pointed out one of the [few] weak spots of the Mythras system. Indeed, using a non-numeric attribute for numeric comparison is not ideal. Other systems do this, but they also provide numerical values for the mnemonic descriptor (e.g. classic Marvel FASERIP).

However, your solution is not great, either, despite the fact it is standard in other BRP variants. As you say, rolling damage even when you parry will slow down play with no guarantee it provides a relevant effect.

I honestly cannot see an easy and quick solution to this problem for either BRP or Mythras. All variants have problems of their own.

[RosenMcStern]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

Combat Styles. As I was thinking on the process on how PC might want to learn more and more weapons. I was thinking to have each character with a starting Combat Style skill including 2 cultural weapons. Later they can spend N perk points (those are precious, limited to INT overall) to add N weapons to their style (perhaps with malus 20% for secondary weapons, perhaps with skill requirement as well, like 60% for 1 perk, 90% for 2 and 120% for 3)
Of course, players can also learn a new Combat Style (with any 2 weapons this time) but that will be paid in XP instead of perk points.
While this setup is somewhat arbitrary, does it seem reasonable?

I like the idea, but introducing another currency in a game that already has a complex system? Uhm, lots of resource management instead of having fun. Add one weapon for each 30% you gain beyond the first reeks of leveling, but is the simplest solution. And I see no reason to make it more complicated than costing one XP.

[soltakss]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

For learning spells (or perk) one need to spend 1~4 XP (i.e. spell level) (or 1/3/5 for perk) and then roll a research check. There is a chance that the research process fail, and the XP is wasted. With a teacher one gets 2 chances: learn check or teach check. I wonder if this is going frustrate the players too much (they spend the XP, pay a teacher, who fail his goddam roll...)
To soften the blow, I was thinking to have retries only cost 1 XP.

Why vary the amount of XP required to increase? Are some spells worth more than others?

Retries costing 1 XP makes sense, as you are not relearning everything you are just doing a bit of revision.

On 8/29/2024 at 10:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

For Parry, perhaps because I have trouble remembering all the size of various weapons (ok, my bad, there isn't that many, I didn't really try, I am old!) but also because 1. I wanted an easy/common way to damage weapons and 2. I also wanted a range of perk and magical items that increase damage a bit each (say an average of 2 each, but sometimes more) or defensive abilities (bonus parry AP) I decided to use Parry AP value instead of comparing weapon sized for the effect of a parry. But I worry that players will get frustrated to roll attack damage and nothing happen quite often. Am I being stupid here (perhaps not the right question for a productive discussion, but hopefully you get the idea! 🙂 )

Having different AP values makes sense.

On 8/29/2024 at 10:38 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

Combat Styles. As I was thinking on the process on how PC might want to learn more and more weapons. I was thinking to have each character with a starting Combat Style skill including 2 cultural weapons. Later they can spend N perk points (those are precious, limited to INT overall) to add N weapons to their style (perhaps with malus 20% for secondary weapons, perhaps with skill requirement as well, like 60% for 1 perk, 90% for 2 and 120% for 3)
Of course, players can also learn a new Combat Style (with any 2 weapons this time) but that will be paid in XP instead of perk points.
While this setup is somewhat arbitrary, does it seem reasonable?

It is a bit complicated.

So, Perks are things to make a combat style more interesting or useful? So, your combat style might be Net and Trident but your perks might be Trip Opponent, Entangle, or Strangle?

Or, do Perks just allow you to use more weapons, so you have a skill of Barbarian Bruiser that hives you Sword, Axe, Shield, and Dagger, so if you want to add Spear you just spend points?

 

[Lloyd Dupont]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Why vary the amount of XP required to increase? Are some spells worth more than others?

Retries costing 1 XP makes sense, as you are not relearning everything you are just doing a bit of revision.

There are 4 level of spells....

I have my design document to download here on this website (Mythras - Master of Magic)... but a new version is coming with some significant changes, so here is my inspiration:
https://masterofmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_Rarity

(i.e. not using powers from neither Mythras nor BRP)

Anyway spurred by RosenMcStern (and a little bit Nozbat) decided to make the learning free (it will take 1 month without XP, 1 week with 1xp) and give retry for 1XP (higher level spells and perks have learning penalty so it all ties up)

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

On 8/29/2024 at 7:38 PM, Lloyd Dupont said:

For Parry, perhaps because I have trouble remembering all the size of various weapons (ok, my bad, there isn't that many, I didn't really try, I am old!) but also because 1. I wanted an easy/common way to damage weapons and 2. I also wanted a range of perk and magical items that increase damage a bit each (say an average of 2 each, but sometimes more) or defensive abilities (bonus parry AP) I decided to use Parry AP value instead of comparing weapon sized for the effect of a parry. But I worry that players will get frustrated to roll attack damage and nothing happen quite often. Am I being stupid here (perhaps not the right question for a productive discussion, but hopefully you get the idea! 🙂 )

Having different AP values makes sense.

Not sure what you mean here! ^_^
Do you like the AP value over Mythras weapon size comparison (to parry all, half or no damage)?

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

It is a bit complicated.

So, Perks are things to make a combat style more interesting or useful? So, your combat style might be Net and Trident but your perks might be Trip Opponent, Entangle, or Strangle?

I think I will go with RosenMcStern suggestion.

But to answer your question Perks are little mundane (for the most part) improvement of your character, new ideas by player are welcome. At any rate here some perks:
- Backstab (give more damage with some condition)
- Weapon Master [x] (slight weapon damage bonus, and +1AP)
- Hide in Shadow (1 grade perception malus)
- Inspirational Leader (give skill bonus for 1 action)

in the upcoming update I'll have a few supernatural ones, with guidelines for new ones 😛 

Edited September 1 by Lloyd Dupont