Question about Runes in Old RQ

[Tywyll]

Hey,

I never got to play RQ1 or 2, and started with 3 (divorced from Glorantha) though mostly ignored it to focus on Stormbringer.

I always read about Runes, and the name of the game was 'RuneQuest'. I saw them on the books and the odd old suppliment.

What roll did they actually fulfill originally? Did characters embody runes, or gain power from them somehow? I know how MRQ does it, and I know that's not like how it used to be, so the question is... what did it used to be?

I'm just curious, its one of those things I've always wondered.

[soltakss]

Hah! A RuneQuest question - I can contibute on those without saying I haven't got the rules.

What roll did they actually fulfill originally? Did characters embody runes, or gain power from them somehow? I know how MRQ does it, and I know that's not like how it used to be, so the question is... what did it used to be?

Runes were always higher-powered or were for higher beings.

Gods were associated with Runes, some had 2 many had three. The Runes influenced the type of magic the god had, to a certain extent, so Storm Gods had storm-based magic, Death gods had death-based magic and so on.

Individuals who progressed in cults tried to become Rune Priests or Rune Lords. Rune Lords were considered to have gained the Mastery Rune and Rune Priests were considered to have gained the Magic Rune.

And that's about it, really.

Seriously, that's as big a contribution as Runes made in RQ1/2/3.

The name had virtually nothing to do with the game, really.

Various forms of HeroQuest Rules for RQ used runes in various ways, but they were all non-standard houserule systems.

[peterb]

One could also say that the runes associated with a god gave you a good idea of what domains (in d20 terms) a god was associated with. The main god of a domain had a double runes. The main death god thus had two death runes, the Red Goddess had two moon runes, etc.

/Peter

[frogspawner]

In good old RuneQuest it was a kind of spiritual thing - through adventuring (questing) you strove to improve yourself, in skill and holiness, in order to emulate your god and thus attune yourself with the Runes (primal natural principles) they embodied.

Mongoose failed to see that, and insensitively turned Runes into just another magic treasure to be looted off the dead bodies of the monsters/victims, D&D-style. Pah.

[sdavies2720]

I played White Bear and Red Moon before getting RuneQuest when it came out, and I've always been disappointed by the lack of integration of RUnes into the rules.

It is called "RuneQuest" for criminey!

Actually, I applaud Mongoose for at least adding Runes (albeit in a pedestrian way) back into the rules as something you get. But yeah, looting the bodies for Runes takes a bit of the, let's call it glamour, out of Runes.

I've been working, off and on for a couple of years, on a new magical system that required bonding to (and ultimately mastery of) Runes to acquire magical talents relevent to that Rune, which can then be used to craft spells...other than being way too complicated, the system has also fallen on the sword of not enough time.

Steve

[Hedgehobbit]

I played White Bear and Red Moon before getting RuneQuest when it came out, and I've always been disappointed by the lack of integration of RUnes into the rules.

I've played Dragon Pass and I have White Bear/Red Moon and Nomad Gods but haven't played them (cause I bought them unpunched). I don't remember Runes having much effect in that game except for the Movement Rune giving a stack double movement. Can you elaborate please?

Aaron

[Puck]

I've been working, off and on for a couple of years, on a new magical system that required bonding to (and ultimately mastery of) Runes to acquire magical talents relevant to that Rune, which can then be used to craft spells...other than being way too complicated, the system has also fallen on the sword of not enough time.

I have been thinking a lot about a similar type of runic magic for BRP. What I am messing with right now is:

1.Runes are mystic symbols/writing representing and element/idea/concept giving individuals power in the form of spells (not chunks of bark that appear where people die).

2. Characters must attune or bond themselves to a particular rune. The process requires a teacher and costs the user 1pt. of power. Characters can attune themselves to more than one rune.

3. The character can then learn spells related to the particular rune. Spells must be learned separately but are all cast under the same skill. Skill begins at casters Int. Each Rune realm would have a number of spells, perhaps 4-10 (I am guessing here) that could be cast with the same runic skill.

4. Different Guilds, Cults, Societies could claim mastery over one or more runes. Some Societies may have different spells than others even though they may use the same rune (They use the rune differently).

I have not worked out whether Magic or Sorcery spells would work best for the base as this rune system is a bit of a bastardization of both. I have played around with this a little with Wealding (tree rune) magic and Totemist (animal rune) magic over in the Shared-world corner, but there I still used the sorcery system and made it very simple.

It seems like with BRP a lot could be done with this with very little work.

[sdavies2720]

I've played Dragon Pass and I have White Bear/Red Moon and Nomad Gods but haven't played them (cause I bought them unpunched). I don't remember Runes having much effect in that game except for the Movement Rune giving a stack double movement. Can you elaborate please?

Aaron

You're right -- Runes were there throughout the game, but they never had much practical effect. So I expected that RUNEquest, which came from that heritage, would have rules for them. Then I had great expectations for the ever-coming heroquest rules...repeat expectations as needed.

I haven't played the game in a while, but I think a lot of my excitement about the runes was from flavor text, about gaining mastery of the runes, and such. It just never materialized in a set of rules.

Steve

[sdavies2720]

I have been thinking a lot about a similar type of runic magic for BRP. What I am messing with right now is:

1.Runes are mystic symbols/writing representing and element/idea/concept giving individuals power in the form of spells (not chunks of bark that appear where people die).

2. Characters must attune or bond themselves to a particular rune. The process requires a teacher and costs the user 1pt. of power. Characters can attune themselves to more than one rune.

3. The character can then learn spells related to the particular rune. Spells must be learned separately but are all cast under the same skill. Skill begins at casters Int. Each Rune realm would have a number of spells, perhaps 4-10 (I am guessing here) that could be cast with the same runic skill.

4. Different Guilds, Cults, Societies could claim mastery over one or more runes. Some Societies may have different spells than others even though they may use the same rune (They use the rune differently).

I have not worked out whether Magic or Sorcery spells would work best for the base as this rune system is a bit of a bastardization of both. I have played around with this a little with Wealding (tree rune) magic and Totemist (animal rune) magic over in the Shared-world corner, but there I still used the sorcery system and made it very simple.

It seems like with BRP a lot could be done with this with very little work.

1. While I like the idea of a written, or carved rune, allowing access to the Rune power through Similarity or other magical law, I think that the Runes themselves should be scattered about the land, in appropriate places. I model it on (a probably warped view of) the Australian legends of the Dreamtime, and think of the Runes being embodied in specific places in the world. Go to the power spot to bind the rune. As a GM I like the ready-made quests that this creates.

2. I agree about binding multiple runes. I've played with multiple levels of binding, ultimately leading to mastery and apotheosis, sort of a "There can be only one" as the ultimate power play for characters that want to own a rune.

3. Somewhere I've seen a classification of spells based on Runes, which could be a good jumping-off point for you. Unless a web search (or this list) comes up with it, I'm not sure I can dig it up.

Magic vs. Sorcery: I wanted a "you can do anything but it's going to cost you" system that evolved from RQ3 Sorcery. But I think it could also, and maybe more easily, be modeled on Magic: Each time you bind a rune, you get a new spell that takes free INT.

Steve

[frogspawner]

3. Somewhere I've seen a classification of spells based on Runes, which could be a good jumping-off point for you. Unless a web search (or this list) comes up with it, I'm not sure I can dig it up.

That "Other Place" could well be the Mongoose RQ Forum. I think I posted one such list there, and others did too, back in those bad old days before there was a better forum to visit...

I've played Dragon Pass and I have White Bear/Red Moon and Nomad Gods but haven't played them (cause I bought them unpunched).

"Haven't played"... that's tragic! Me too, though. I've never dared play my NG even though (or maybe partly because) the units are quite scrappy. That's why I started to knock up this Java program that lets you play these games on-line... WebHex (a bit like Cyberboard, though I like to think the definition files are easier to set up).

PS: Maybe we should invent a similar-style wargame for SharedWorld...?

[Puck]

1. While I like the idea of a written, or carved rune, allowing access to the Rune power through Similarity or other magical law, I think that the Runes themselves should be scattered about the land, in appropriate places. I model it on (a probably warped view of) the Australian legends of the Dreamtime, and think of the Runes being embodied in specific places in the world. Go to the power spot to bind the rune. As a GM I like the ready-made quests that this creates.

I am not familiar with the Australian legends but I must look into it it sounds pretty cool. I love the ideas of "power spots" to gain runes or spells. They could be anything that fit the setting: temples, icons, trees, crop rings,totem poles etc. and as you say the ready made quests add a lot to the role-playing experience.

I did not really read the title of the thread before I jumped in and was actually thinking of Runes as possibly different from those of Glorantha and could work in BRP with more generic game settings. I am afraid to go into to many details hear as I may commit the faux pas of getting to far off the topic of Runes in Old RQ.

PS: Maybe we should invent a similar-style wargame for SharedWorld...?

This sounds interesting???