Dodge Improvement - 7th

[klecser]

Hi folks,

It says in the 7E rulebook that Dodge can be improved like other skills but does not specify the use of Occupation or Personal Interest points at the beginning of the game to improve it beyond HALF DEX.  

Can I assume that this is deliberate to make for a more dangerous experience for new Investigators or can one actually improve DEX at character creation?

It seems like Dex is an utterly useless skill at the onset of a game and an Investigator will almost always have much more success "attacking back" using a combat skill that they improve at character creation.  I understand that combat should be rare and deadly in CoC, but why have a Dodge skill at all if it is utterly useless at the start?  Why attempt it to improve it at all if it's just going to get you killed?

Thanks!

[nclarke]

Not sure where you're coming from as average DEX will be about 52% making 1/2 DEX 26%, not too shabby. Personal Interest skill points (INTx2) can be spent on DEX as well if you feel that 1 chance in 4 of avoiding an attack or diving for cover isn't enough.

See Personal Interests on p36 for more about skill points derived from that source and how they can be spent. Cthulhu Mythos is the only skill which cannot have Personal Interest points spent on it at character generation.

 

 

[klecser]

Thanks for responding.  I think you mean that personal interest points can be spent on "Dodge", not "DEX", right?  DEX being a characteristic, not a skill.    I think my personal hiccup came from the fact that since the 7E rulebook, during character creation, specifies "HALF DEX" in every instance of Dodge and doesn't show the example character increasing it, I somehow felt like that was some kind of "cap" on that skill at the start.

I would like people's insights as to why an Investigator wouldn't choose to increase Dodge, based upon how attack skills work.  This is me MIN/MAXing a tad, and I understand that Cthulhu isn't about that.

So, I understand the inherent value of Dodge over an Attack Skill as used in combat, I think.

In tied opposed rolls:

1) Fighting Brawl vs Fighting Brawl (defender is "fighting back"), a tied success goes to the attacker.

2) Fighting Brawl vs Dodge, a tied success goes to the defender.

Makes sense.  Dodge gets an edge there, and you can use it any amount of times in a round, except that it gets harder with "Outnumbered".

I guess what I really want to know is, how often do veteran players improve Dodge on character creation as an "essential" skill?  Getting hit ONCE in this game could be game over for that Investigator.  Do you make peace with that fact and roll a lot of characters, or do you always invest in Dodge?

[nclarke]

Yes, I meant Dodge can have points from PI points spent on it.

Personally I'd go with using Fight Back in almost every instance as I can then cause damage both on my turn and on my opponents turn. Running away is still the best option in almost every case but if I should be caught then getting the combat finished as fast as possible is the best option as far as I'm concerned.

Dodge is mostly useful when diving for cover if being shot at.

[klecser]

Thank you nclarke!

[trystero]

My players are very happy using Dodge and winning degree-of-success ties in combat. They usually only Fight Back if they're (a) much better than their opponent, or (b) desperate.

[Darius West]

12 hours ago, nclarke said:

Yes, I meant Dodge can have points from PI points spent on it.

Personally I'd go with using Fight Back in almost every instance as I can then cause damage both on my turn and on my opponents turn. Running away is still the best option in almost every case but if I should be caught then getting the combat finished as fast as possible is the best option as far as I'm concerned.

Dodge is mostly useful when diving for cover if being shot at.

Agreed, but dodge is also useful for evading tentacles (when you have no hope of fighting back) as well.  Under such situations midway between combat and pursuit as you run out of the house bobbing and weaving as the eldritch horror tries to go full hentai on you, you discover the value in investing in an automobile with a non-cranked ignition system.  A word of warning, Model T flivvers simply don't cut it

Edited February 13, 2017 by Darius West

[nclarke]

If there's tentacles then I'm not even going to be there. See that cloud of dust on the horizon, that's me. But I really only need to run faster than one or two other characters.

[Numtini]

Dodge is better because you dodge on a tie,  but only hit on fight back with a superior success. It moves combat ahead faster partially because you're instructed to have NPCs fight back which means mostly that they will fail at their fight back (because it requires a superior success which is hard to achieve), but won't take the option of the easier dodge that would lead to a lot of wiff rounds. 

[trystero]

14 hours ago, Numtini said:

It moves combat ahead faster partially because you're instructed to have NPCs fight back...

Instructions notwithstanding, I find that the choice between dodging and fighting back is a great way to characterise NPCs. A foe that always dodges is trying to preserve his or her (or its) own life; one that fights back against the first attack and dodges the rest is willing to take some risks; and one that always fights back is unconcerned about danger (whether because of superior skill or some other advantage). I never spell this out to my players, but they pick up on it all the same.