Terraforming Mars in 100 years

[g33k]

23 hours ago, dragoner said:

The Sun, as the most visible example of fusion, does indeed emit radiation. Something the magnetosphere protects against.

There are ... a LOT of different fusion reactions possible.  Inside a star, you get many more than in a controlled / fuelled reaction.

Fusion is a desirable form of energy for power plants for a LOT of reasons, and minimal radiation-risk (vs. fission plants) is a big one.

 

[...]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

Fusion is a desirable form of energy for power plants for a LOT of reasons, and minimal radiation-risk (vs. fission plants) is a big one.

 

At 80x the neutron flux, it isn't, which is why the fusion rocket concepts state "for deep-space ..."

[...]

Good article from NASA/Many Worlds Blog on giving Mars an atmosphere with a magnetosphere:

https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-to-give-mars-an-atmosphere-maybe/

[clarence]

That's interesting. No direct terraforming and still an atmosphere would be formed  

'The shield structure would consist of a large dipole—a closed electric circuit powerful enough to generate an artificial magnetic field.' I wonder what size such an apparatus would have? 

[...]

It would be large, you could do the math, such as from here:

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/PY106/MagField.html

For the design I made, a large orbital structure, I admit to just copying from a discussion involving NASA engineers.

[clarence]

Haha, no I really can't do the math. Reading that article, my eyes glaze over instantly. 

[Joerg]

On 8.11.2017 at 4:58 PM, dragoner said:

It would be large, you could do the math, such as from here:

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/PY106/MagField.html

For the design I made, a large orbital structure, I admit to just copying from a discussion involving NASA engineers.

That text has a section dealing with the force on a charged particle migrating through the field.

Following actio = reactio, this means that the field-generating loops will experience the opposite force, moving them out of the L1 position unless there is another force (from other interaction with the Solar Wind?) keeping it in position.

A combination with mirrors (solar sails) possibly increasing a selected band of radiation on the surface of Mars could contribute to the terraforming.

 

I don't subscribe to the idea that terraforming necessarily involves introducing new material to the planet in question, but it certainly involves re-arranging the material of the planetary surface, atmosphere, hydrosphere and (you need to deposit some stuff somewhere) upper crust. For our own world, the hottest topic in conservation of the status quo in natural terraforming is carbon sequestration. In case of hypothetical attempts to give Venus an Earth-like surface, it would be sequestration (or export) of sulphur and carbon. Installing an L1 mirror/filter set regulating the amount and spectrum of radiation hitting the planet would be a first step on that way.

Given the gradual changes our primary undergoes, maintaining the status quo of our global climate will involve such filtration efforts, too, or otherwise even grander efforts to alter the orbit without completely destabilizing it. The same (today scientific fantasy) technology could be applied to the other rock planets in the system, and some of the larger moons as well.

 

I don't think that we will ever overcome scarcity of certain resources, but that a leap out of our gravity well and a start in grand scale construction in solar orbits could shift the scarcity problems to quite different concerns even with existing technology and material science. What we are lacking is the drive to prioritize such a development, a drive like the one provided by the Cold War and the USSR space exploration successes which pressured Kennedy into making his "in this decade" statment which led to the Apollo missions. Right now, a few oligarchs like Elon Musk are at the forefront of initiatives getting us to the resources of the material beyond our gravity well, including the immense resource of the Solar Wind that fails to be captured by our little planet, not to mention solid bodies populating less stable orbits around our primary or its satellites. The energy and much of the matter is up there.

The settings of SF games usually make some assumptions how the gravity well has been overcome.

Once overcome, an object in a more or less stable Goldilocks orbit around the sun with a decent stock of material might generate all of its energy just paying off the initial investment cost and some (possibly significant) maintenance effort. It could start repaying that initial investment by collecting solar wind matter for reaction mass or for high energy transmutation into elements that are considered as scarce.

Once established, its inhabitants wouldn't need to master more technology than the maintenance of solar panels, mirrors, or steam turbines and simple electricity to keep most of their installation operable for generations. Some regulation could be done by hardware-coded, heavily redundant "expert systems" for more generations than projected for this kind of installation. A huge, none-planetary civilization could grow, possibly mostly populating Lagrange points or similar orbits of convenience.

Populations on mostly self-maintained platforms could live through decadence into primitive societies, providing ample roleplaying seeds. All kinds of healthy and unhealthy interrelations between such platforms and other entities in the system could result, creating a "third world" or "fourth world" segregation in space.

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 5:27 AM, clarence said:

Haha, no I really can't do the math. Reading that article, my eyes glaze over instantly. 

Sorry, it says that the simplest way to generate a magnetic field is to run a current through a wire, and that is what I envisioned was a frame work conduit supporting a wire. The idea of a large solid magnet ring, that people would think of that, didn't occur to me. 

12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Following actio = reactio, this means that the field-generating loops will experience the opposite force, moving them out of the L1 position unless there is another force (from other interaction with the Solar Wind?) keeping it in position

A rotating orbital structure will be stable enough, with occasional corrections from attitude thrusters. Not sure why that started an argument before though.

 

One good thing about material and Mars, is that there is an unformed planet (the asteroid belt) nearby.

 

The thing about hard science, is that given a long enough timeline, a lot could be possible. Trying to maintain a sense of realism isn't bad, it's different in what if it's 3000 years in the future or something. Terraforming is a lot more possible than a lot of people think, is it a big project? Yes, that doesn't affect the possibility of it being done. Our species spends far too much on weapons to destroy itself, in lieu of backing up the hard drive to make sure we survive, that is reality and it really doesn't make sense except in a myopic manner. Terraforming another planet means reaping from the long investment, a huge amount of real estate, which is valuable. Will we make it out, will we do it? That is the root of the question.

 

"Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today- but the core of science fiction, its essence, the concept about which resolves, has become crucial to our salvation if we are to be saved at all."

-Asimov