Artmali ruins in Pamaltela

[Gregory M]

What do artmali ruins look like, in Kothar or Zamokil?

It was a brilliant and advanced civilization, I see ruins of huge and smart buildings with a science-fantasy aspect, strange mechanisms based on moonbeams energy, ruins of ports, boats and other Kirby-liked machinery... Many things are burnt or even molten because of the Firefall...

[EDIT] I guess we could find marks of terrifying cults too, as the empire was corrupted by Chaos...

What is your opinion?

Edited October 23, 2017 by Gregory M

[Joerg]

To cut a much longer tirade on the origin of the southeastern Artmali short:

Revealed Mythologies tells us that the first Artmali descended from their ancestal lands on Veldara on Indigo Coulds which served as rafts or ships even after their arrival on the Earth. These Indigo Clouds evidently were some substance from their planetary home, probably a mixture of lunar glow and physical stuff (dust from Blue Moonrock, Water from the Blue Moon) which obeyed commands and could be coerced to take on other, urban shapes. Basically, the new settlers could have sacrificed a significant number of their "ships" for accommodation, fortifications, or harbor facilities.

I don't see any evidence or need for a science-fantasy flavor here. The building material would have been highly exotic, anyway.

[Gregory M]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

I don't see any evidence or need for a science-fantasy flavor here.

Ok, thank you.

My reference to a science-fantasy flavor is based on the idea that time on Pamaltela is running backward (Sandy Petersen in Forgotten secrets of Glorantha) : ancient civilizations there were highly advanced, urbanized... I thought it could indicate a high level of technological development.

I had the Feldichi from Dorastor in mind, too, with their strange runic machines.

[metcalph]

I divide the Artmali into three stages.

1)  The early stage when they have just landed.

2) The classic stage in which they were united under the Jakaru the Indigo Conquerer

3) The late chaotic stage.

I think the Artmali built from waterstone, transmuting water into rock.  In the early stage, their buildings are quite simple in design with unadorned walls and so forth.  Perhaps the Artmali had other senses by which they could appreciate things at the time.

In the classic stage, their buildings come alive.  There are huge statues, massive towers and the walls are adorned with petrogylphs that begin to resemble undeciphered writing.  There are signs of external influences, the towers are probably based on the Vadeli towers of sorcery.

The late phase is the worship of chaos.  Very little survives from this time as the Firefall burned most of it.  The Artmali ruins that survive were the long buried remnants of earlier stages that were uncovered (and partially razed) by the Firefall.  But the spirits of the Firefall's victims still haunt these ruins seeking a return to life...

[Gregory M]

5 hours ago, metcalph said:

I divide the Artmali into three stages (...)

Thank you for these cool ideas Peter Metcalphe!

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

I divide the Artmali into three stages.

1)  The early stage when they have just landed.

2) The classic stage in which they were united under the Jakaru the Indigo Conquerer

3) The late chaotic stage.

 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

I think the Artmali built from waterstone, transmuting water into rock. 

Slightly different source of building material than my suggestion of the Indigo Clouds (water, air, and moonglow), but a very similar effect.

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

In the early stage, their buildings are quite simple in design with unadorned walls and so forth.  Perhaps the Artmali had other senses by which they could appreciate things at the time.

 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

In the classic stage, their buildings come alive. 

That might already have been the case on Veldara, and repeated in Veldarahab. And quite likely also the case for the buildings of Tishamto. This sounds a lot like something an advanced animist society might to - treat their constructs and dwellings as having a spirit, and consequentially making it so (in case of doubt by inviting spirits from the spirit plane to take residence in those artificial bodies). Whatever they build or craft may serve as a talisman.

 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

There are huge statues, massive towers and the walls are adorned with petrogylphs that begin to resemble undeciphered writing. 

Their glyphs may not have been writing, but reflection of memories that would, illuminated by moonglow, activate the memories in the "reader". Possibly something like an Aztec code like the ones our mobile electronic devices use, working directly on the mind. (In an untrained or alien (non-Veldang) mind, this might overwrite existing memory paths, creating a special kind of madness, as is appropriate for Lunar or Selenic writings...)

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

There are signs of external influences, the towers are probably based on the Vadeli towers of sorcery.

The first external influences after Cathora's arrival on the Blue Moon (which started their culture) would have been a cross-pollination with the Doraddi, from Afidisia's contact with them.

I think the Godtime map in the Guide p. 684 got the location of Veldarahab wrong. It is basically the location where we find Senmara, the Agimori capital, on the next map. (I have a few more problems with the Pamaltelan maps, like the absence of an isolated and untouched Dinal on many of them.

I wonder whether the Artmali ever managed to get the upper hand in their struggles with the Vadeli of Oabil, Poto and Chir - possibly when Zzabur managed to imprison the Vadeli after the Tadeniti extinction.

 

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

The late phase is the worship of chaos.  Very little survives from this time as the Firefall burned most of it.  The Artmali ruins that survive were the long buried remnants of earlier stages that were uncovered (and partially razed) by the Firefall.  But the spirits of the Firefall's victims still haunt these ruins seeking a return to life...

This late phase might have been after the fall of (most of) the Blue Moon (most of it onto Mernita, in the distant north). Their moon-infused "technology" fails, the tides no longer make their buildings pulsate, and they turn to something else that will aid them.

I wonder whether the Artmali regarded their relationship to Chaos as subordinates, equal partners, or superiors. If they inherited/stole this from the Vadeli, they would probably have felt as masters of those powers.

Having taken a look at the date of the Firefall according to the God Learner Maps, it precedes the Battles of Stormfall and Earthfall and the destruction of the Spike. This takes the southern Pamaltelan Greater Darkness out of the Chaos Wars. I feel this is somewhat unsatisfactory, but might explain why the Agimori left to fight Chaos elsewhere, and when. At the same time, it keeps the Artmali level of Chaos corruption rather low compared to the massive corruption of the Greater Darkness.

The Zaranistangi Veldang appear to have remained active participants throughout the Greater Darkness, despite partial loss of their home planets.

[Roko Joko]

There's a need for a science-fantasy feel because there's always a need for a science-fantasy feel.

And because of the backwards thing, that's a good one.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Roko Joko

[metcalph]

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

This sounds a lot like something an advanced animist society might to -

A word of advice.  Avoid jargon like "advanced animist society".  It doesn't tell us anything about what the Artmali were like (it's far from certain that they worshipped only spirits) and causes serious eye-glazing moments.  Your theory of about the Artmali buildings could easily have been made without resorting to clunky Hero Wars jargon.

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The first external influences after Cathora's arrival on the Blue Moon (which started their culture) would have been a cross-pollination with the Doraddi, from Afidisia's contact with them.

That's the first recorded Doraddi contact with them, something slightly different.  

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I think the Godtime map in the Guide p. 684 got the location of Veldarahab wrong. It is basically the location where we find Senmara, the Agimori capital, on the next map. (I have a few more problems with the Pamaltelan maps, like the absence of an isolated and untouched Dinal on many of them.

I'm not certain that it's wrong.  The Artmali could have easily moved out and Tishamto moved in.  Then many centuries later, Kungatu launches a war to restore Vendarahab.  All this is taking place in the Storm Age which is over ten thousand years long.   A RW parallel would be Justinian's wars of conquest in Italy and North Africa against the Vandals and the Ostrogoths.  

 

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Having taken a look at the date of the Firefall according to the God Learner Maps, it precedes the Battles of Stormfall and Earthfall and the destruction of the Spike. This takes the southern Pamaltelan Greater Darkness out of the Chaos Wars.

The Pamaltelan Great Darkness occurred in the Great Darkness.  The many Pamaltelan battles against chaos (Jaranpur and Sporebore) occurred in the late Storm Age or the Lesser Darkness.  You can refer to this as part of the Demon Period (as the Pamaltelans do) but to start calling it the southern Pamaltelan Great Darkness only confuses.  

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by metcalph