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Ravian

Lady Knights and Romance

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23 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Many gm's run Uther as one who listens to his 'little brain', or as my group says, 'big brain.' Has a illegitimate son, Ygraine, Baroness Pompeii (spelling) and so on.  Merlin warns Uther that he just needs to remain just.  His Lustiness makes him fail on this, so he loses overall.

Yeah, it is certainly a valid approach, and seems to be exactly how he is portrayed in KAP5+. I guess Uther's just not the man he used to be.😉

It's actually kinda fun to compare editions and see how the characters have changed over the years. 

Edited by Atgxtg

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20 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, it is certainly a valid approach, and seems to be exactly how he is portrayed in KAP5+. I guess Uther's just not the man he used to be.😉

It's actually kinda fun to compare editions and see how the characters have changed over the years. 

Uther's lust for Ygraine has been a staple of the stories for a long time.

Argan & Dyagenne, and Uther's duel with the former and seduction of the latter that caused the said duel, are from Prose Tristan, IIRC. Anyway, the point is that Uther as a Horndog has existed prior to KAP5.x.

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21 hours ago, Morien said:

Uther's lust for Ygraine has been a staple of the stories for a long time.

Yes, but not his desire to bed everything in a skirt.

21 hours ago, Morien said:

Argan & Dyagenne, and Uther's duel with the former and seduction of the latter that caused the said duel, are from Prose Tristan, IIRC. Anyway, the point is that Uther as a Horndog has existed prior to KAP5.x.

Apparently. I haven't read the Prose Trstan, so that's a new one to me. Are there any other sources that paint such a lusty portrait of Uther? Do we have a list of other women he chased? As previously mentioned the possibility of another child of Uther running around seems pretty high if he was a lusty as he seems to have been.

Either way, he still been downgraded as a Kingly figure. He's not even a real "Pendragon" anymore.  

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:08 PM, Ravian said:

Well Book of Uther seems to suggest that he has a regular string of Paramours before he marries Ygraine, so I wouldn't be surprised if Madoc and Arthur had some other (if unacknowledged) siblings.

I fully suspect Morgan and Ygraine to get involved, especially since I also heavily suspect that the PLK (Player Lady Knight) will be inflicting her vengeance upon Gorlois after he kills Madoc. That's going to land her and any of her children on Morgan's sh*t list for sure, and Ygraine isn't likely to take kindly to her either.

I think the assumption to work with is that Uther's Bastards (a knightly order if ever there was one, right?) are all unacknowledged, probably cared-for through his largesse, and technically lowborn. His swiving is a matter of widespread rumor, but done quietly both I think because of fear of his temper but also because he's the King (capital K) and that's just what's done when you're an unmarried king. The Church would disagree, but probably not to Uther and especially not after he's broken Gorlois. So all those bastards? Not enough to stake a claim to protecting the throne of Logres.

Now a high-born lady, even a queen like Ygraine, brings a measure of legitimacy through association and is a more reasonable target. 

If there were legitimate, acknowledged issue from Uther or Madoc, then they would be in a higher category of claimant, at least on par with some of the extended family/powerful lord members of the Anarchy. Fun times.

Keep in mind as well that secret marriages are a thing. It entirely possible for the PK to claim--especially after Madoc's death--that their well-known affair was actually a private marriage and that was the reason Uther didn't mess with them. A few bribes to churchmen and maybe some winking at Uther and you're set. 

Personally, because I'm using some related ideas to this thread, I like the "secret marriage to Madoc just outside of Terrabil" plot. The next morning is a hangover, of course.

But then I'm mean.

 

--Khanwulf

 

PS. Edit for Atgxtg: I don't think it's fair to make Uther chase anything in a skirt. He just doesn't find someone worthy of tying the knot with until Ygraine comes along, in the balance of beauty and station. But he does insist on having a bedwarmer. A pretty one. All the time. Deprived a few days and he'll find a replacement in short order; which is what happens when Ygraine rejects him. 

Frankly I think Ygraine lost her charm immediately. I mean the chasing is better than the having, and she was all weepy, then all pregnant, and then bitchy (in GPC) about losing Arthur before she even named him. She was not super-young either and I suspect Uther had some serious buyer's remorse at having chained himself to such a strong woman (Valorous 19!?!). Her departure to the nunnery sounds like the end of an argument or few that, were she male, would have resulted in the king doing some stabbing.

 

Edited by Khanwulf

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In my game Uther was passioante, but not especially lustful. And in the first years he did look like a King. He was Just. But also he was a strong king oppossing the vile Saxons. 

His fall for Ygraine was a real shock to the PKs as it also felt out of character for them. It wasn't of course. Also the death of Uther as a king made the Anarchy phase even more desperate and a doom settled among them. After 15 years of struggle they now finally feel that hope is on the horizon with Arthur. Something really changed.

I could not create this if Uther was more lustful in the beginning. I think my players would not see Uther as a good King. And thus the downfall would not have been felt the same way.

But as always YPMV 

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3 hours ago, Cornelius said:

But as always YPMV 

Yeah, definitely. One of the interesting things in the whole tabletop RPing is that things change depending on the GM and the players. This keeps things fresher, I find.

That being said, Uther (at least in GPC) is not supposed to be a Good King, but a Great King. He is a warrior king, seizing life with both hands and taking what he wants. And he saves Logres from the Saxons at least twice, Battle of Lincoln and Battle of St. Albans. Thrice, if you count Battle of Mt. Damen. That is not a bad record for a king. It is Arthur who is both Great and Good and ushers in the Golden Age. Uther is supposed to be flawed.

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When I ran Uther, he was ruled by his passions.  Yes, he is a strong king. Melin's words were "Remain Just," which Uther did not do.  Thus, he fails and the Saxons remain and, well, you know the story.  I agree with Cornelius' viewpoint, just as I would agree with many others. It is, YPMV, and the players will drive the story as much as the gamemaster.

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6 hours ago, Cornelius said:

But as always YPMV 

 

2 hours ago, Morien said:

Yeah, definitely. One of the interesting things in the whole tabletop RPing is that things change depending on the GM and the players. This keeps things fresher, I find.

Yes, and with Pendragon eseentially beging the same "campaign", characters, setting, timeline, and key events,  that variation is very important, especially when running the game another time around.

I've run several campaigns and they all varied from each other. 

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