Tournaments

[BioKeith]

Just wondering about people's experiences with tournaments.

Has anyone put together any house rules for tournaments? I've looked over the tourney rules in the GPC, and they give a good baseline to work with, but I was looking for something more organized, or at least a decent summary sheet that goes over all the events (Bohort, Joust, Tourney, Feasts...) that take place throughout.

 

[Atgxtg]

 

I think what you want is the stuff that was in the earlier edtions. Specfically the tournament rules from KAP1, Nobles Book, or KAP 4s's Lordly Domains.  Both devote about pages to tournaments. The Nobles book gives a nice breakdown and summarly sheet (it actually has an outline) of events and Lordly Domains gives a bit more detailed treatment and a table for determining opponents in a joust. Both are available in PDF form at DrivethruRPG at a fairly low price too. 

The basic procedure is as follows:

1. Prep Work: The host builds the lists, send out messengers and preperares for what is to come.
2. Arrivals: The guests show up and present themselves to the host, and are wealcomed as guests.
3. The Lists: Knights approach the Heralrd to sign up for the list and given their time for their first match, join a team for the melee,, issue\e any challenges,  and there is the "helm show" where everyone is revealed and those who are deemed unworthy are prevented from participating. 
4. The Joust: Knights are paired off against each other. Perk the Nobles Book, a single list (the norm). A single list can handle about 64 combatants per day. So if there is more than that the joust will either take more than one day, or additional lists would be needed to handle multiple contests at once. 
5. The Challenges: This is where Knights compete in various ways. Stuff like knights calling out rivals, or knights from other kingdoms to various of friendly and not so friendly contests. Stuff like a Knight of Levcomagus challenging any knight of Salisbury to a a Sword fight until knockdown or some such. 
6. The Grand Melee: Basically a mock battle. Usually forget with withheld blows and possibly rebated weapons. 
7. Other Events: Things like the bohort and archery contest for commoners are handled and generally not as singficant to knights. 
8. The Feast: This is where they celebrate the winner of the joust and the grand melee.

 

 

The actual events in a joust and how deadly they are, and the stakes all vary by the type. Some are more decorative and are more like a pageant than a contest, while others are virtually warfare under another name.

 

 

 

 

 

[BioKeith]

That sounds exactly like what I'm looking for - thanks!

[Tizun Thane]

By the past, I used to roll every joust with the complete rules. It's a burden, and it's very difficult for the PK to win in the long run. The rules for the joust in the GPC work well for me.

However, for the Grande Mêlée, my quest for finding the good rules is not over. The rules for battle (Like in the book of battles) do not work well with a mocked battle, even with army of knights. With the rebatted weapons, there are many rolls without any real meaning.

In classical Tournaments, the Grande Mêlée is supposed to be the highlight, but in play, it's kind of... tedious? In my game, I hesitate to create a new rule of non-lethal damag efor non-lethal weapons to recreate the feel of a real battle.

Have you any tips to make the Grand Melee entertaining?

[Atgxtg]

6 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

By the past, I used to roll every joust with the complete rules. It's a burden, and it's very difficult for the PK to win in the long run. The rules for the joust in the GPC work well for me.

However, for the Grande Mêlée, my quest for finding the good rules is not over. The rules for battle (Like in the book of battles) do not work well with a mocked battle, even with army of knights. With the rebatted weapons, there are many rolls without any real meaning.

I don't see what you mean. In the BoB in real battles we kinda found out that rolling damage against the NPC doesn't have much meaning.. It is the PKs win/loss record that determines the unit results, all the damage does is determine a glory multiplier, and possibly reveal is someone is vulnerable to capture for ransom. 

 

6 hours ago, Tizun Thane said:

In classical Tournaments, the Grande Mêlée is supposed to be the highlight, but in play, it's kind of... tedious? In my game, I hesitate to create a new rule of non-lethal damag efor non-lethal weapons to recreate the feel of a real battle.

Have you any tips to make the Grand Melee entertaining?

1. Use knockdown. I apply rebated weapon and withheld blow modifiers after knockdown. The idea is that the knight will still hit his opponent hard, but will do so on areas that are protected rather than poking at the exposed parts.  Typically if a knight gets knocked down two or three times he acknowledges defeat. It becomes rather obvious.
2. Force Knights to act like the damage was real. Historically when someone took a good hit, in a mock fight, they were supposed to act like it. So look at the damage as if it were real and if significant, the knight should fall down, surrender and whatnot. If knights fails to do so, he could get spotted by the Marshall, who might start calling out his wounds from then on, to the Knight embarrassment (and possibly a reduction on the glory he earned for his victories, or even a loss of Honor).This could also be a good place for Honest or Deceitful rolls.
3. You could add in a winner of the grand melee award. Roll a random value for a NPC. maybe something like 1d6x10 per round (with a modifier for the size of the tournament and quality of the opponents. Maybe just a best of multiple rolls), and if a PK beats he wins the grand melee and gets an extra 100 glory. That makes the melee personal and important to the PKs. Sometimes there are prizes for winning the joust and/or grand melee so that alos makes the outcome more interesting to the PKs.
4. Put in rivals and enemies. PKs get more interested as to who wins a mock battle if it is against an enemy.

[Cornelius]

During battles and combat for love I still use the normal rules for damage, except that al damage is healed when the PK gets some time to catch his breath. 

The only exception id when you roll critical. We roll first normal damage. If this exceeds armor (+shield) real blood is shed and real damage is struck. Then a second time damage is rolled. This damage is added to the first but is not real damage and is healed after the PK gets some time. Of course the total may cause a knight to be knocked from his horse of course.

Major wound is ignored as most damage is not real. When a knights is damage brings him below his unconscious level he has to stop fighting and give up.

Furthermore point 4 of @Atgxtg is a good one. also give them the option to seek them out specifically. The melee is after all the event to show off and many 'duels' will be fought I guess.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Cornelius said:

During battles and combat for love I still use the normal rules for damage, except that al damage is healed when the PK gets some time to catch his breath. 

You can do that, but in battle it really doesn't matter as all the fights are single roll contests. 

[Tizun Thane]

Thanks to both of you. I will try to implement some of your ideas...

[Morien]

This is slightly opposite to what you were asking, but...

In short, since I find the Grand Melee to be so boring, I prefer to resolve it quickly and move on. I usually bookend it with Feast of Welcome and Feast of Victory, which give the PKs more chances to interact with people (and sometimes leading to duels) and catch up on current gossip.

For the 510 tournament, when there were actual stakes in it, I had it run multi-day with several sections each, with different factions jockeying for power and seeking alliances to bolster their chances of becoming the new King of Logres (and, presumably, the High King).

But just for regular tournaments? Nah, I can't be bothered to waste time on that. Talk to me if you roll a critical or a fumble.