Ken

Hi Jason, Let me just add my voice to the chorus. I can only offer my thanks, (and a personal purchase of BRP aswell as a couple for my company), with regards to the new version of a system that has always been my favorite. I am very fond of the cover and hope that it inspires people (particularly those that may take the context of the image seriously), to look over and choose BRP when they're in their LFGS. Before I sign off, just a personal remark about how I've been using BRP0 at work recently. I work as a tutor with disaffected young people, trying to re-engage them with learning. Over the past month or so my I've been introducing role-playing to these students as a 'fun' way of getting to grips with basic 'Numeracy' skills in preparation for more structured learning. I've just started a post-grad specializing in working/teaching these young people and had my first teaching observation on Tuesday. The session observed was the rolling of characters, determining 'average' characteristic scores and deriving information from numerical tables. My Uni lecturer said that she thought that "It was the best session she had ever seen for introducing and motivating this client group in the subject of Mathamatics". So I hope that it means something for you that your work is being successfully used to help/educate some of the more dis-engaged learners in our society, (in the UK that is). I don't mean for this thread to bring a tear to your eye or anything (lol), but I for one really appreciate the time and effort that you have put into BRP, and into the answering of our questions and (sometimes inappropriate) criticisms. Thanks for opening the portal into the next stage of my gaming journey with my favorite system. With Kindest Regards and Thanks. Ken

I may not be a fan of D&D, but it must be said that the man kinda kicked it all of for us tabletop RPGers. To the greatest adventure. Warp-speed Gary. Ken.

I think one of the things that has to be said about our hobby is that it is a niche market. It does have it's 'brand' big names that seem to sell and sell, but on the whole I feel that the market for tabletop roleplaying is a little smaller than it once was. Tabletop RPGing was the kingdom of the geek in those fine bygone years of the eighty's, and yes I succumbed to going out with 'the lads', finding women and learning to play guitar, all of which were considered a little more social..... Or so it seemed, (by those 'less' geeky). But now a few years on, RPGing is one of the pleasures I have in the week where I meet up with those 'old school' friends and we play and chat and reminisce about the passing of Jorune, Ringworld, etc. To touch on what may be a raw nerve. I think that the reason for it's continued faltering market when "geek has become the new cool", (10,000,000 subscribers for WoW), is that tabletopping requires something that is so difficult for people that have a busy and hectic lifestyle. It requires time. It's an effort to get a few people round a table these days, more so if you've got a family or other commitments to look after. It takes time to learn a system. It takes a little time to find which one of your friends is most suited to GMing. It takes time to write/read up scenarios. A worthwhile campaign takes time. Look at the alternatives and no wonder they're wining the battle for our geek time. Magic, the Gathering and other CCGs. (Tragic, the Saddening or geek-bridge as I call it). Games learned very quickly and reliant on plugging cash into blisterpacks. WoW and other MMORPG's. Very little effort put into what is effectively power gaming for magic items with P.C.s instead of dice. RPG/Adventure computer games. Again very little effort to play a console/PC adventure. Isn't that why our hobby, (and hence market) is not stable. Just not enough people that are willing to sit round a table and throw dice and tell stories? Though I say buy an RPG if you can, I would suggest that you find those games that you enjoyed of yester-year that are out of print (such as Ringworld for me), download their sorry-ass and keep them alive for yourself. Either that or write a sourcebook for BRP and see if you can get the license. Ken.

What can I say? I've been burned by GW several times. The first major one for me was in the eighties when they stopped stocking other companies products. Once when they decided to drop role-playing. I was a member of staff and their HR systems of use/abuse are a complete joke. And yet again with the pulling of a line of RPG materials that have a quality that surpasses most of the tosh out there. WFRP was (and still is) a classic. The dawning renaissance gritty fantasy is , (for me) as original and exciting as glorantha. I don't know about 40k rp, as the only thing I've really disliked about their mythos is the constant reference to the 'Chaos crap'. But I bet it would make a good Dune system. The people that run GW are one thing and one thing only, that is 'capitalists'. There's nothing wrong with that if your in business, and if your successful, fair enough. But we share a hobby which like it or not is niche, as such it is supported by a core of people that really love the products and developers. We love them because of product and customer/developer interaction, not brand, (excepting of course AD&D and d20). It doesn't surprise me that they've done this as they've done similar before. It does surprise me that we as gamers in general are surprised by their antics. GW have burned me several times before as I've said, my only response to them then as it is now. 'I am not a demographic money making button pushing dice rolling moron even if you insist on treating me like one. For being so patronising to myself and other hobbyist's alike, if you would like my support of your organisation or the money from my wallet, I have but one thing to say...... FUCK YOU". This is, of course, just my opinion having a long history with them as both customer and employee. Laters guys Ken.

Well I have this funny tingle down my right leg when I've been cycling for too long, and my wrist makes a funny clicking sound when I twist my forearm repeatedly. I wondered if you practitioners of Comparative Systemology could recommend a cream for it!!! Serious note though. I've played RQ over the years with lots of different options, (with or without strike ranks, no hit locations, etc), and to me what always kept the core feel of Gloranthan roleplaying was the transparency of the system. Basically the, 3d6 characteristics, percentile rolls and resistance table provided all that was needed to play and this allowed the exploration of a rich world rather than comprehensive rules system. I would be the first to say that a mechanic changes/alters/affects the way players play in a world. My style of playing has always led me to the narrative way of looking at things, so a transparent system was always perfect for that type of play. Just my thoughts. Ken.

Its unfortunate really. I would love a Gloranthan sourcebook for BRP but alas it's not going to happen........ Or is it! Some one could rewrite Glorantha for BRP remembering the couplet... As intimated by the Stafford himself. I would love to play an armoured swan wondering about Dragon's Ass and Prix! You never know. Ken.

Way Hey!!!!!!!! Mmmmmmmmmm, tasty Cradling/stroking it as I type occasionally wiping froth from the chin etc. Will report back soon. Ken. (Now with added signature).

OMFG! It's arrived at home, Wifey msg'ed me at 10 this morning!! Just a couple more hours until I get my sweaty paws on it. I don't know if i'll even stop on the way home to buy man sized kleenex. Mmmmmmmm And in true 'Rorshach' Style............ More later. (Which knda reminds me of the Superworld Watchmen scenario I demonstrated for Forbidden planet years and years ago in Sheffield, (with painted figures as well). Time flies ehh? Ken.

Is this the kind of thread that I can admit that i've got a mint copy of RQ2 knocking about in its box. A separate one for use in playing obviously, but a mint RQ2........ can't be many of them knocking about. Ken.

Hi Nick Ohh Cool, Jim at Patriot is a really nice guy, mention me to him the next time your down, (Ken would be enough I think . I visited York a while ago now, something at the Uni for educators I think, tho my little girl (5) visited the railway museum recently and was blown away by the train for princesses, as she called it. (Royal Carriage, I think). Have you visited Triples, (the Sheffield Soc gaming convention) are there any conventions your neck of the woods? Ken.

Hi Nick, Ahhh, a man drawn as though hypnotized to the bosom of yorkshire!!!!! I'm in Sheffield m8, where abouts do you call home in this green and pleseant land? Ken.

Mine also shipped on the 15th m8, I'm in the North (Yorkshire) so just waiting on it now. Hang on, whats this. I'm beginning to froth at the mouth already. Ken.

Hi Jack can I ask when you ordered yours, if memory serves me we you ordered the same day as I ordered mine I think, (post earlier in this thread). Which shipping option did you plump for? I got a pending shipping mail over a week agao but haven't heard anything else yet. Cheers m8. Ken

Wow guys, Its got a bit heated since I last looked in this thread!!! I mean it's a BRP forum, shouldn't we be able to knock D&D in here without fear of retribution. (God knows their currently crucifying Cthulhu over at RPG.net). (JOKING) When I sift through the memories of my beginnings in the hobby, (and I may accept that I'm remembering through Gloranthan or Lovecraft coloured spectacles), I remember the types of books that were informing my RPGing at the time. At around 14/16 my friends and I were really into David Eddings, Raymond Feist, Terry Pratchett etc. I think that for us, and we picked up RQ2 first luckily, what we wanted to do was play in the worlds that we were reading about rather than go dungeon bashing. We were aware of course (back in the heady days of a UK only Games Workshop that sold all kinds of gaming products) of D&D but after playing BRP other systems never seemed to come up to scratch. Now I don't mean for this to sound too sycophantic or fan boy, but our prejudice came from the idea that, to us, a percentage system of game mechanic was transparent and it allowed much more freedom for the player to get into the story / background of the world. It may have just been the order that I was exposed to different gaming systems, but I recall (I think) that Glorantha and CoC existed before a coherent world campaign setting for (A)D&D. (Which I think was Greyhawk, but I may be wrong). CoC was a revelation to us and is a credit to the gaming fraternity as a whole because when first viewed it seemed an odd (even if visionary) setting. IMO having such a transparent mechanic on such a non-typical setting helped move the gaming community forward to accept that there were many, many more worlds out there that could be explored. It was unfortunate for our little band of players that our prejudice for D&D remained. It did though, and we went through phases of MERP and WHFRP just to avoid the D20 mechanic. (I have most of the published scenarios for (A)D&D and I admit now that I still don't like their style of dungeon bashing). However if you look at the sheer volume of stuff published for (A)D&D it is obvious that there has been real effort for some time in bringing background and setting to a game that many people enjoy. For choice it's fairly clear where I stand, but, if I'm really honest I have enjoyed the odd bash at D&D just for the sheer scale of the magic item list and to 'grind' a monster so I can see what it's left me . I have enjoyed this type of gaming occasionally but have gone back to other favorites when I've desired more story lead scenarios. Certainly to our discredit at the time (and to some other peoples now) I need not have slagged off a game where people could get both types of gaming from one system when I preferred to get different things out of different games. I will repeat what has been said by someone else though, in my experience, loyal (A)D&D players have tended towards the magic-find dungeon bash. That might lead to a question, (which I hope could be answered dispassionately), if it is it a common enough experience to be a cliche, why is it one? Since 'Pool of Radiance' I've been playing computer RPG's. Everything from Knights of the Old Republic to Diablo (2) and WoW. These games have filled me with the fix for item hording and dungeon bashing while my love for the interactive story-telling of being sat round a table with friends gives me a different 'high'. So I end my little rant about the BRP/(A)D&D fight. Please guys, feel free to check out the facts regarding coherent campaign settings for (A)D&D as opposed to those found native in RQ2 and COC, I may just have encountered them at different times. So, I'm doing to don my +4 Chaotic-Good, Int 17, vorpal Hat-stand with cast 3 Cure-light-wounds/day, my Box of Bopping Noise and my Anti-Gravity Mithril Plate-mail to see if I can find myself a Browny-Orangy-Beige Dragon and trounce it......LARGE. Ken.

Well, first things first. A supernatural Western. Player's are talking about a Jorune at some point and RQ/CoC? Well that would feel like putting a brand new V8 engine into an old vintage car. I just hope they ship my copy soon. Ken.

Ohhhh, I just had to order it..... mmmmmmm! Anyone reading this at chaosium, pls make a Brit happy and send it asp to the UK, (of course within the 6-10 day window as asked for in p&p). I would be so miffed if I bought and paid for a copy of an 'advanced reader copy' that didn't come until after Edition 1 was in the shops. Ken.

I think that for me this point needs clearing up.......... Railroading. Is railroading a facet of scenario construction/writing or is it a type of GMing style? To me it's the latter. It probably comes from one of 2 sources, either an inept/inexperienced GM that does not know how to integrate the PC's actions into the narrative of his game or the fact that the GM is a power-gamer and is himself playing to 'win'. I've got most of those d&d/Ad&d modules (in PDF) and to be honest they are railroading scenarios. (Even though I love 'The Village of Homlett'). How many times did we see the closed boxes of text that GMs were to read out to players to tell them what was happening? Yes, players had choice to roam the dungeon at will but only after they had virtually been delivered to the entrance by Fed-Ex. In fact, Expert d&d acknowledged that it was more difficult to let the players do what they wanted by roaming wilderness areas, which is why it was introduced later and only on hex-maps. If role-playing isn't like fiction then it is just a single figure war-game with no narrative, only contextual background setting. If thats your thing fine, the hobby can cope with that because that was the embryonic form of role-playing that we know today anyway. When I started Role-playing, I found RQ2 and CoC early on. These were the esystems that have led me down the path of the style of RPGing that I currently enjoy. I dislike a scenario (and these are usually the published ones for obvious reasons) where everything is static unless interacted with by the PCs. Where the creatures operate in a limbo until 'spawned' by players. This is little more than power-gaming (or computer gaming) with a veneer of narrative painted over it. The PCs can see through this when badly implemented and therefore feel as though they are being manipulated, i.e railroaded. For me scenario construction/writing is about filling in the world and a timeline where NPCs go about their own business and instigate their plans irrespective of PC involvement. IMO the trick for the GM is to somehow introduce to the PCs the hint that something is happening so that they 'feel' interested enough to get involved. The 'interactive story-telling' comes from the agendas of the PCs colliding with the agendas of the NPCs. To me this is what RPGing is about. The GM has to know the NPCs inside out so that the story can flow from players and GM in an interesting way that is bound by the coherent, consistent world that has been painted by the GM. (This why I would disagree that CoC scenarios are designed to railroad players, the cultists plans don't even incorporate the PCs usually and will happen anyway). In short a lot of responsibility lies on the GM so that he can interact with Player choice and not railroad them down a particular avenue. I seriously think that if you remove story/narrative and in some sense character arc, (even if its just a check for experience) then you have got little more than a boardgame. And if you look at the evolution of boardgames over the past there are some that have begun to replicate the RPG character sheet /stat padding / item hording type of play. This has been a bit of a rant but it does suggest to me that both styles of RPGing are alive and well for players and GMs. (Narrative/story lead/character arc against stat-padding/item hording/dungeon bashing). I think there is room for both in the hobby and all are welcome around the table, as long as, we get to articulate where we've come from and accept that other people can conduct their hobby in the way that they like. So the differing opinions that I've found in this thread, well I think they are valid for their own style of play. If BRP is going to be a cross-genre RPG system with the best of them. Let's see deep-background books next to item-books and dungeon bash scenarios. I'd just like to see BRP be a real contender and battle it out with the other big boys in the market. (And it's true that is because I'm a fanboy that holds dear a system that I fell in love with 25 years ago). Here's to taking my +20 vorpal magic broadsword and hitting Cthulhu in the hope I can decapitate him with it. Ken. (P.S. Sunwolfe, loved your post. Brought back memories of hanging about the gaming shop at 14 amazed by all these worlds that I could spend time in. I lament not getting SB 1st edition and just might seek it out so I can spend a bit of time frothing over it as I would have as a teenager).

Does he have to be leaping around as a pirate? Can he be skulking around as a victorian detective? Treading carefully among the roses with scissors for hands? Seducing children as an impish chocolate manufacturer? Hell, why don't you write a 'The many movie roles of Johnny Depp' as a source book for BRP. I'm sure that many other girlfriends would try roleplaying if that sourcebook was in print. Lol btw, tickled pink by your thread. K.

Hi guys thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Enpeze, Your first point about anime influence! I think that this is a subjective thing, it depends on the gaming community around you and what they are playing. I think that I've seen influence on table-top rpg'ing from anime, the playing of supernatural 'immortals', card gaming and computer/console rpgs over the past 20 years. My inference of what this has contributed to is a breed of 'munchkin' (if thats the right term) power-rule players whose interest is not the stories and situations that their characters find themselves in but the heroic stature of their character. It also seems to me that this dizzying height of 'herodom' is paramount and how you get there is secondary. Your second point. I suppose that my fellow gamers and I, (some of whom I've gamed with for over 20 years), have always though about the narrative journey of the characters. When we saw a setting we wanted to explore the places that we loved and really got behind the idea that, its the backstory of the setting and the actions of a character within a narrative that defines the heroic NOT that you've got uber-stats to do what the hell you want ensuring success. This led us away fairly early on from power-gaming and table-top rpg as single figure war-gaming. I like the idea of scripted scenarios, (possibly because I dabble in a little screenwriting) but only when the script says 'this is what will happen if the Player Characters DONT intercede in the narrative. That is no excuse though for a GM not to have done his homework and for everyone together not to forge a new story from his scenarios/ideas. I think that also while I enjoy a dungeon bash as much as the next man for a little bit of entertainment, serious role playing for me never included most of the d&d modules that I read through. (I loved 'The village of Hommlet'). To have these architectural oddities where decades if not hundreds of completely isolated monsters of differing types inhabit a similar space without ever opening the door on each other and having lots of treasure, well that never seemed like anything else other than power-gaming to me. (Bet you can't guess that RQ2 was the first RPG that I picked up luckily). As for you're final point. Well thats a fair cop guv for me. I don't avoid death in games but I don't let the dice decide the fate of characters on their own. I think of it this way, for our group interactive story-telling is the objective. In stories, there is typically no need for death without some underlying narrative device. I appreciate that thats not the same in real life, that you can walk out of your door and be hit by a car for no reason, but our games are not real life they are stories. Now the reason for a death in a game may be the player wants to retire a character, that there may be some need for one of the players to sacrifice for the greater good, that a player may send a character into confrontation without doing the proper preparation, (cites Cthulhu as a classic example) and so I have no problem with destroying those characters utterly. But there is a point to the death in question. Hell it maybe that I kill characters off at the beginning of a campaign just to let the players know that I will if i need to. I just don't like the dice doing it with no point. (Of course all confrontation within a narrative could be seen has having a point, but I'm guessing you know what I mean). But finally I guess the reason that RPGs change is that the demographic of people that play them changes too, (as already mentioned) and it's important to remember (certainly in my opinion) that this is story/game/art and people play the way they want to. I wouldn't prescribe how someone else plays or gets enjoyment out of their games. So bring on the power-gamers and WoW players and rule-gamers and let them have their fun their way. My only true lament for the longevity of our hobby is that there are some games that have fallen by the wayside and we no longer find in the shops. I would love to be able to go and buy a copy of Ringworld and have it sat on my shelf. Or direct new players to purchase RQ2, IMHO the most complete RPG for the small number of pages in which it was contained. Still I guess that's what Ebay is for Thanks for the interesting topic. K.

Ohhhh, lovely lovely Jorune... Our current gaming group is in the middle of a 'board-game break' while different members write campaigns/scenarios. We currently have Serenity, Cthulhu, Marvel Superheroes and a BRP Western in the offing, but the cry every Wendesday without fail is... Jorune .... Jorune .... Jorune!!!! I know that there is a basic BRP conversion out there somewhere but it would be great to see a full setting based around the much ignored and vastly underrated universe of Jorune. Perhaps there is a few of us out there willing to pool resourses, mount our thombos and seek the advice of a thriddle or two to see if a BRP version would work. Quivering tri-nodes. K.

Following a very entertaining thread on the rpgnet forums. The League of Extraordinary Gentlmen, (graphic novel by Alan Moore) But in a slightly twisted interpretation on this threads title..... A setting book published by Chaosium that would ensure me never buying any Chaosium / BRP product ever again........... Harry Potter Ken.

Atgxtg wrote:- Well I guess you could say that but only in the context of any Empire's colonialism given its significant advantage in terms of military force and technological advancement. The paradigm works for any imperial incursion doesn't it? (Greek, Roman, British, etc). The particular emphasis for the game I want to explore is the nature of the spiritual confrontation between the aggresive invasive force and the indigenous culture trying to repel; specifically our Old World (European/Middle Eastern) aggresive philosophies/religion/spirituality against the defending belief structures of the many Native American peoples. Is the spiritual life of the people tied the landscape? Does a new country carved from the forced resettlement of others through confrontation and suffering itself suffer a spiritual bankcruptcy/famine through not being tied to the land? Is there any chance of future redemption for the aggressors that while permanent inhabitants, the spirits of the land cry out against them for justice? These are some of the stories and ideas that I want to explore, but with a 'Colt Peacemaker' slung on the hip. Now I know that this could seem a little contentious but there is a different feel to the 'way the west was won' to other significant land grabbing confrontations in historical context, (apart I guess, from the Austrailan Aboringines). And that is that while the government of America supported the settlers the land was not taken all at once by a vast force but settled a bit at a time with claims being backed up and protected by the federal government as needed. This is also why I partly choose the Old West. So I guess I've partly answered your question. It may resemble the Lunar Empire, yes? Though I guess if we were going to continue this discussion we ought to pick this up in the Western thread and get back on to topic in this one ----------------> :focus: Sorry. K.

Atgxtg wrote:- Interesting hooks sure I'm working on the premise that the 'supernatural' of the the Old World (European) is just a colonial/greedy/contract breaking as the People that brought it with them. As settlers move west, that spirituality moves with them into the landscape of the indigenous peoples. The ensuing struggle for the land is not just fought with bullet and arrow. Having said that I don't want a Vampires vs. C'hindi / Faith-Healer vs. Medicine Man fest either. A number of years ago I read a quote from an Australian Aborigine, it went something like:- Always thought that that would be an interesting premise to 'play' out, given that it's my personal conviction that war/struggle is never about philosophy/spirituality/religion but always about greed/property. K.

Well for me it would have to be:- (1), Skyrealms of Jorune - great backstory and IMHO one of the most under-rated RPGS of all time, and as I recall what I thought to be the first Sci-Fi Western setting in an RPG. (2), Bladerunner - Not the PKD novella but the feel and the city of the film, it's just got a great noir feel. (3), Noir of the 40's - Funnily enough. See above but without the sci-fi. (4), Supernatural Western - but not like Deadlands where there's an undead horde in every boothill and not like Cthulhu where my players know just too much of the mythos. (5), Michael Scott Rowan's "Anvil of Ice" - was always intriged by the idea that smithing and wizardy had been merged into a single mystical craft. On another note, about something that was mentioned about power-gamers and getting products out there earlier in the thread. I agree with what was said about Chaosium's core customer base, (myself being a 40 year old gamer enjoying RQ2 for 25 years) and new blood (munchkins) needed. I think that for me BRP has always been a fantastic system because it's not tended towards power gaming in the mechanic. It's much more about the characters doing extraordinary things through the stories and adventures that they take part in rather than in the high chance of success that their players dice role. In my eyes thats a serious distinction between how munchkins do 'it' and how serious role-players do it. I've seen a lot of criticism for CoC recently based on the idea that why would you play a character that was small and frail and destined to fail in the end. (A gaming heresy in my book, all hail Cthulhu f'tagn f'tagn). IMHO it's these types of players that Chaosium needs to start selling too, that way they can build more resources to develop for diverse game® types. Just my opinon of course

Hi guys, I’m sorry that I’ve missed this thread up to now, I’ve been researching an Old West campaign for a number of months now and have been looking for a group of likeminded hombres to chew the tobacco over with. I’ve wanted to run a supernatural Western from point dot but after looking at Deadlands I was put off on just how much supernatural content there was in the system, so I fell back on the idea of BRP which has been my system of choice for 25 years or so. (All hail RQ2, all hail CoC, all hail Ringworld. Lol). Anyway on with my point. About the differing era’s of the west? (And please remember I’m a Brit doing his first research into such things, so I hope my remarks make some kind of sense rather than seem too naive). Surely because of the constantly changing geo-political map of the west beyond the ‘Permanent Indian Frontier’ post 1845, it would be very difficult to set out eras of play in the Old West? I can see that for technology and manufacture it might be quite simple, but for ‘cow-towns’, settlements and Indian nations indigenous locales, setting an era would be a difficult exercise at best and a gross distortion (if you wanted a historical setting) at worst. I’ve found Dee Brown’s (the author that wrote ‘Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee), ‘The American West' to be a rich source of material and ideas. Well worth a look IMHO for anyone wanting to get a feel for what is was like striking out into the West. As for Native American culture, I’m only just beginning to see what a difficult task it will be to gazetteer America into its areas of indigenous cultures and beliefs. I’ve found out all along the way that the easiest way to tackle writing a campaign is to set the year(s) first and then identify the locations of Indian Nations, Ghost-towns, U.S. Army/Fort movements etc. Thanks for listening to my rant  Please feel free to put me right on any points I make and thank you all so far for making a very interesting thread. Ken