jajagappa

8 minutes ago, ChrisWentWhere said:

I didn't know that they couldn't use Hide while moving - if someone is creeping up on someone I get them to roll vs Hide. Perhaps with a modifier.

If you're trying to move while hiding (creeping up on a foe), you have to roll for Move Quietly and augment with Hide. (If your focus is more on hiding and move quietly to stay out of sight, do the reverse, roll on Hide and augment with Move Quietly).

2 hours ago, Agentorange said:

it's listed and written up as a Rune spell so I'm going to count it as one

Yes, as I noted, Black Fang wants his cut. But from a gameplay perspective, it's a stacked Disruption spell, which means you can use as a model for the types of more unique spirit magic spells that might be available from other, less cutthroat spirits.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Weird pachyderms - think Fonrit.

Fun times getting that across the seas.

1 hour ago, Agentorange said:

Black Fang and Oakfed don't have any listed at all.

Black Fang effectively does, but you have to pay the price of worshiping him to get it - he doesn't give away what amounts to a Disruption 4 for subsequently "free" use.

Yes, a bit more challenging!

You might start with this thread: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/12774-orlanth-in-umathela

This is an old site from David Dunham that may give you some ideas: https://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha/umathela/

There's a bit here too: Introduction to Umathela (1997) – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com)

And a bit here: Umathela – Notes From Pavis

For an old fanzine's take on Umathela try this issue of Tradetalk: Tradetalk # 14 - Outside Genertala: The Southern Continent - RuneQuest Gesellschaft e.V. | DriveThruRPG.com

3 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

ok seen the reference for this - a long time ago!

The Varmandi have a very long history as a war clan, and battling the Malani tribe (and particularly the Orleving clan). The Varmandi are now a poor shadow of what they once were. 

You might find the "A New Hero" live play videos of interest for your situation. See: RuneQuest - A New Hero

The heroes are Varmandi, and they end up having to go to and help the Greenbrass temple. Think there was a harvest contest involved which is one excuse for allowing passage even between feuding clans.

3 hours ago, Agentorange said:

What guarantee is there that a shaman is ever going to meet a specific spell spirit ?

Spirit Lore and Spirit Travel. This is where Shamanic Traditions come into play. Shamans develop "maps" of the Spirit World. They travel to those places and record (in whatever fashion they prefer), how they got there and what they found. They teach and guide their apprentices through these "maps" so that by the time an apprentice becomes a full shaman, they've gained a solid foundation in these skills. They may know that if they want a Wind Spirit, they need to go to the Great Grazing Land, then listen for the Thunderbird, then follow the trail of the Thunderbird to the Whistling Cave. Or if they want a Mobility spirit magic, they just need to go to the Great Grazing Land, find the Great Herd, and then seek out the Running Hoof spirits who know that know the spell.

Quote

is it possible or likely that the spirits involved in spirit cults might be able to offer some of the common spirit magic spells albeit in a limited or restricted way ?

Yes, of course! No reason they need to be limited/restricted per se - it's really what you want in your game. 

Maybe you find the Deathstroke spirit and worship it, and it can provide you with Bladesharp 8.

Or you find the Fast Running spirit and it offers Mobility and Coordination.

As I recall, there were one or two Spirit Cults included in the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha work that only offered spirit magic (fairly unique ones, but certainly an option). Meteor Swarm (in RBoM) was one that came from the Crater Makers. 

13 hours ago, StephenMcG said:

And when will you be running your seminar?

Maybe I should propose one for ChaosiumCon? (Or maybe @Joerg and Ludovic would find it interesting as a topic for their God Learners podcast?)

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Chaos bugs and where to find them...

Any Chaos nest - the Footprint, Snakepipe Hollow, Dorastor, ...

I had broo flies seeking out anything that was bleeding in Snakepipe Hollow (e.g. after my PC's blew a giant's head off with a thunderstone, swarms of broo flies came to feast on the carcass and lay their eggs in the body). Lots of opportunities for chaotic variations, or to inflict horrors on your PCs.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Am I absentmindedly missing insect humanoids in Glorantha?

Timinits. Guide p.503: "“Timinit” can be translated as “insect people,” and numerous types exist." (Some of them originally appeared in the RQ3 Glorantha Bestiary.) They live on Jrustela and in the Kumanku Islands between Jrustela and Fonrit.

3 hours ago, StephenMcG said:

What I need are the tools to plan and run the session. 

That's why my Nochet work includes a Sandbox session generator. It takes time of year and current location as inputs, where PC's may be going, then let's you roll for an event (which might be common, uncommon, or rare) and an encounter (i.e. who - which might be a significant figure, a local personality, or someone the PC's know well), plus resulting attitude and motivation (which might include following up on some rumor) of the encountered character. And options for engaging the PC's. 

As you interweave specific set scenarios and sandbox events, and take the PC's actions into account, you begin to get those layers you note. But the layers are only roughly there at the start in the form of passions for your PC's, passions for the House/clan/patron they are interacting with, and perhaps a set of goals identified by PC's, their patron, and possibly a villain/rival that you want as part of the plot line.

20 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Seems to me that Nochet plus Ships and Shores make a natural combination for a great RQ campaign - I purchased both for that exact reason.

Definitely! One thing I tried to do in the character backgrounds in the Nochet Adventurer's Guide was to incorporate links regarding seafaring, distant lands, the colony at Dosakayo, etc. which could encourage a seafaring expedition. There are any number of opportunities to fill in scenarios based on both works.

21 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Any way they can be marketed or bundled together on DTRPG with some minor savings or extra goodies?

I don't think bundling would be viable for either Martin or myself. Marketing is certainly feasible. 

3 hours ago, StephenMcG said:

I am clueless though at running an urban campaign, managing the social situations, laying down the mosaic of politics in a way players can negotiate, get involved and find things out.

Trying to get players to follow the intricacies of high-level city politics (and remember them from session-to-session) is a challenge. That's why I find it easier to start "local". Let the players take "ownership" of a set of figures they know and develop some backstory about. That gives you some framing to add some "politics" around the relationships they've established. Much easier to know that your Biggest Rival lives in that neighborhood, and that neighborhood belongs to the Ingilli's, so when your rival challenges you, you have to wonder whether it is personal, or if the Ingillis are up to some scheme.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

In my experience, it helps when the player characters and a bunch of NPCs have a common history in the city. Depending on player buy-in and tools offered to the players, you might start out with a bunch of friends, rivals, patrons, friendly resources, reserved or even hostile resources created by the player group. Harald Smith's "Nochet - Queen of Cities" offers some mechanics towards this turnout.

When I started my Nochet campaign, what I found I needed was: 1) a common "cause" for the characters (in Nochet, it's the House, the urban equivalent of a clan, which is effectively the character's patron), and 2) a set of known NPC's (if you're in an urban setting, you know people).

For your House/clan/family, it helps to map out some basic relationships. What neighborhood are they in? Who are their allies, rivals, and foes? (Citizens of the Lunar Empire has some nice ideas on that based on your city block and its immediate neighbors.) Setting that up gives you some immediate context, and it's really not that different than looking at the clans of Sartar, just much more concentrated. (E.g. in the Colymar, the Orlmarth ally with the Ernaldori, they hate the Greydogs of the Lismelder tribe, they are rivals of the Taraling because the Ernaldori are rivals, they are friends with and marry the Hiordings, they think the Varmandi are poor, troublesome, pains in the @$&, and of course like most Colymari they hate the Malani.)

In my Nochet books, I have a concept of a Cast of Characters (NPCs). These are about 100 "stock" characters (took the idea out of old Commedia dell'Arte characters). For each PC, you roll to determine their Best Friend, Current Mentor, Primary Contact, Love Interest, Main Rival, Worst Foe, and Biggest Pain in the @$&.  

That gives each player/PC a set of 7 people they immediately know besides the main figures in their House/clan. And with a group of PC's, there will be overlap which allows you and the players to put together some back stories about these figures, and that interlinks with the relationships your House has in the neighborhood and city. 

Once you have that, then you can draw on a lot of standard soap opera narratives. Your Best Friend is being shaken down by your Rival from the neighboring clan, and they need your help. What's up with that? Time to investigate and help out... And you can interweave these sandbox situations throughout a larger campaign arc (e.g. House Marele is now suffering from loss of wealth during the Siege and is suspect among the great Houses because they remained neutral and did not choose a side among the major alliances. They need new allies and new wealth - and send the PC's on various missions to help restore their reputation and position.) 

36 minutes ago, Joerg said:

became Kitori in the Chaosium House

The Kitori certainly predate the use of Midkemia Press' Carse work.

44 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The other source for the existence of camels in Glorantha is the Trickster story about Mother Mammal being surprised so badly that the child became the camel.

That's the only reference I recall.

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

"free roaming titanotheres" makes me wonder whether there are clans who have semi-domesticated these meat mountains?

I suspect not. They're likely considered sacred storm beasts, close to the gods.

Well, much taller and not much hump, but camels nonetheless.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

hey why isn't there a camel tribe or is it one of the missing beast tribes?

They're called "High Llama" (e.g. alticamelus)! 

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The "fact" that the King of Sartar must marry the Feathered Horse Queen is, in effect, a mythical forgery, faked by Arkati/Ernaldan heroquesters.

But blessed by the dragonewts nonetheless! Maybe the Ducks were the "Arkati"?

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

“Queendom of Jab” is there and trails up in the hills will be perilous, fraught with danger will they not? Are the trails somewhat where the red dashed line is?

Remember that the Queendom of Jab doesn't occur until Gagix becomes Scorpion Queen and overruns that area after 1616. Belintar would have kept such largely in check (as would plenty of Storm Bull worshipers). The center of scorpionmen queendoms before then is within the confines of the Footprint - largely trapped by the high cliff walls (some 1000+ feet) and the Stone Wood. But Chaos being Chaos, they would find ways to climb up (or perhaps fly depending on the Chaos type) or follow the burrows of krarshtkids. That's how I think Gagix eventually erupted into the Jab Hills - combination of krarshtkid tunnels and limestone caverns. The Jab Hills before 1616 were dotted with isolated clans and their villages. Free-roaming sky bulls and titanotheres used to graze there, but have now moved south of the Bullflood.

As for the trail, from Bullflood it largely follows the course of the Bullflood River (vs. inland), but once in the mountains, yes, the trail goes through the vale between Stormwalk Mountain and the mountain immediately to the south (which I've named Founders' Peak - i.e. where the Storm Bull's sons, the Founders of the tribes, were born). The Low Temple (aka the Hoof Shrine) is at the western end of that vale. You can either continue on to Prax from there, or begin the ascent of Stormwalk (which as the spiral indicates is a winding trail that wraps seven times around the mountain to reach the top). One of the great wind child aeries is near the top of Founders' Peak.

7 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

In general, I view these things as the Tinfang Warbles and Trotter the Hobbits of Glorantha: discarded first drafts. Greg Stafford was a publisher, he could easily have shared this stuff with the world if he thought it worth doing, and he never did. But YGWV, of course.

It's kind of like an archaeological dig - there's a lot of broken pots and vases to sift through. Sometimes you find interesting nuggets, sometimes you just see how the pieces evolved over time, and then there's all the stuff that really was just thrown out.

28 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

was originally posted somewhere else?

It was one of Jeff's FB posts collected on the Well of Daliath. I don't recall seeing it before (but perhaps appeared in one of Greg's Roots of Glorantha works?). Maybe @scott-martin knows?

16 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

The question is a matter of in what way that utility is expressed.

I think this is often the hard question/issue to get across successfully in a modern game where we don't have active deities.

Perhaps when coming from other RPGs there is an expectation that these are simply transactional, utilitarian arrangements (in exchange for X worship, I get Y spells that are relevant to my occupation and balanced vs other deities)?

Whereas what Glorantha offers is a way-of-life in accord with the deities that help your culture (vs. you the individual) prosper.

3 hours ago, Martin said:

I wonder...maybe whether meeting Imarja comes in the area of the Heron Hegemony? She is a bird goddess and that area is ruled by the council of birds?

That was where I initially thought to place her, but then I realized the ritual path has to form a square so has to start at Ganderland. Imarja as the Creatrix thus is both the beginning and the end of the path.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

The "obvious" route -- I think -- is along the edge of the water, passing south of the Shadow Plateau & through southern Heortland, south of the Stormwalk, then turning northward & passing near Monkey Ruins.  But maybe I'm forgetting a problem with that...? Should/would they be going upriver from Nochet, and passing north of the plateau, going through Beast Valley & Sartar &c?  Or am I overlooking some other, better route that would occur to them?

South of the Shadow Plateau is largely very difficult swamp (Bottomland Marsh) and dense, overgrown woods (The Tangle). As the Guide notes: The Tangle is an area so overgrown that it is difficult for anyone to pass through. It lies between the Shadow Plateau and the bay and drifts off imperceptibly into the Bottomland Marsh.

If you're avoiding the obvious sea passage from Nochet to Karse, then your better choice is north of the Shadow Plateau. Go up the Lyksos to the New River into Beast Valley. Find guides to take you to Vorda Hill and Volsaxiland and then to Whitewall. The shorter path then is along the Sartar Royal Roads. However, if you've got Storm Bulls, take the Heortland Road south to Durengard, then the trails up the Bullflood and immediately south of Stormwalk Mountain so that you can honor Storm Bull at his Low Temple and cut through to Prax.