M Helsdon

17 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I also assume there would be one large library or university in the City of Ecstasy. Local village schools would also have books? The AAA sows that Ecstasy is only permanently resided in by 500 or less. No other villages are shown on Trowjang. Would it be they are mostly nomadic and that family units move together frequently?

I imagine that most of the Marzani live in small villages supported by slash-and-burn agriculture, and, on the coast, also fishing. These villages would be semi-permanent, until the land has to be left fallow, maybe moving every generation or so.

There might, I suspect be temple and shrine schools, but no large library or university.

In an early Greg fragment I have seen, the Teshnans (Teshnos, Melib (called Melon), and Trowjang) are described as a mixture of Nagi and Hsunchen, and in his writings Nagi gradually became Agi, and later, this southern race became the blue-skinned Zaranistangi Loper People, who still have descendants on Melib (and perhaps Trowjang). The Zaranistangi seem to have brought their Blue Planet deities Annilla, Emilla, and their brother (?) the Red Planet deity Tolat to Melib and Trowjang.

I forget where I read it - may have been a post by Jeff - but Melib is named for the first Zaranistangi chieftain/governor of the island.

15 hours ago, Eff said:

On top of all of this, warships in classical antiquity were specialized vessels that were very different from mercantile vessels, so we have to ask whether they got effective warships from getting lucky several times in a row. 

For much of antiquity, certainly the Bronze Age, whilst there was a distinction between war longship and mercantile tub, most longships were dual-purpose, often single bank penteconters, trading, and raiding when an opportunity arose. Such vessels are not as technologically demanding as a multi-bank warship with a ram, and could well be of sewn construction, making them simpler to build. These are in some ways scaled up canoes, using oars instead of paddles, and the sort of ships I would expect in the waters around Teshnos.

The Marzani could well make their own triaconters or penteconters, and be effective pirates in their home waters. The one illustration we have shows a unireme of this sort.

Crossbows vary enormously, and whilst dwarven crossbows would require an industrial base, simpler ones would not. In our history, the Picts seem to have adopted them from the Romans, and could easily be made by anyone. An arcuballista is a possibility.

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

But Yelmalio is Toldat's half brother and the Sun Domers are not really an ally of Orlanth?

The attitude of Yelmalions vary from place to place; in some places the Little Sun is an enemy of Orlanth, others a rival, and others an ally.

Shargash's cult is found in Peloria and parts of Saird, and Tolat's in Melib and Trowjang, but seems rare elsewhere. In the Holy Country he might have a shrine in some temples of Lodril.

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

I know what you are aiming for.  It is called syncretism. 

Which is very common in mythologies, terrestrial and Gloranthan. Greg Stafford once said, I understand, 'There aren't as many gods in Glorantha as you think there are.'

Now this doesn't matter in Glorantha, playing in Glorantha, unless you are playing a sage or priest who really thinks about the nature of the gods.

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

The problem is that it doesn't work when you have deities from hostile pantheons being syncretized. 

It works, because the Pantheons are mortal constructions to a great degree. Now the Romans and Germans often didn't get on, but the Romans had no problem identifying however bizarrely Mercury and Woden,  or less oddly Jupiter and Thor... This is still apparent in our days of the week where Roman Dies Mercurii is English Wednesday.

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

You can say "the deity you call Rigsdal is the deity we call Polestar" until you're blue in the face, but they have different names, different mythology, and other problems like the whole "Orlanth Rigsdal is therefore Orlanth Polestar if we accept  the syncretism" issue.  This can't be passed off as a "mystery of the gods" because it implies that Polestar's right hand doesn't know what his left hand is doing, which is particularly unacceptable for a god who specializes in choreographed movements.

The mythologies are recognised by different cultures as their interpretation of a divine entity. Gods, especially significant ones are big and complex, and mortals trying to grasp their nature are like the six blind men and the elephant. Some, like Yelm and Orlanth are so big everyone gets their innate nature, but others like Pole Star are, I believe, more nuanced.

I don't recognise the "Orlanth Rigsdal" combination from anywhere. It sounds like an attempt by someone to have Kallyr's celestial patron aid her followers during Orlanth's absence in the Underworld but Rigsdal is not Orlanth. 

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

the god Polestar, who is no friend of Orlanth or his pantheon except when he is Rigsdal

These are both cultural perceptions. For the Dara Happans, Polaris is a war god and hostile to the Orlanthi because they are; for the Orlanthi, Rigsdal is the faithful guardian in the night who protects them. Both are true, yet contradictory. Polaris and Rigsdal are aspects of the god of the Pole Star.

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Gaah!  Rigsdal isn't Polaris, they just have the same spells. 

Polestar is the polemarch of the Star Captains, who aid people in many places.

Polestar is the marshal of Yu-Kargzant's starry herd as they gallop around the heavenly corral.

Polestar is the War God of Yuthuppa, and the god of officers.

Polestar is the loyal warrior and night watchman of Orlanth, known as Rigsdal.

Polestar is the constant guiding star of sailors. [I made this one up.]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Could any of the other Gold Wheel dancers come back to life (if that was understood) if strange things happen on a Hero Quest? It would be great if Speaking Wheel's stats could be posted as an idea?

Yes, given the revival of Pinchining on the Giant's Cradle.

36 minutes ago, Jape_Vicho said:

By myself I have only found one candidate, Minlister. According to the wiki, Minlister, god of Brewing, is a son of Elmal, and in Katrim's Earth goddesses WIP it appears as a son of Ernalda with neither Orlanth, Hykim, Yelm or Flamal. But from the texts it really seems more connected to Orlanth and the LB than to Yelmalio. 

In the latest source I have, Minlister is a son of Ernalda and Flowing Water (usually identified with the local river god).

6 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Humakt is probably the easiest to deal with since it's fully officially detailed

Yes. If you want some Carmanian colour, previously there has been mention of a local version: Emgarvu is the keeper of the Dead, Bringer of Death, Keen Edge of War, Slayer of Men, and the Taker of Breath. This was his name as worshiped by the Spolites, who worshiped anything from the Underworld.  The Black Magi of the Carmanians consecrated worship of Emgarvu as acceptable - "some of us are killers".

Here is a typical Carmanian invocation of Emgarvu:

Oh Great Emgavu, we send you these hearts of seven beasts and a man, that you will keep our swords sharp, blind our foes and take their souls to hell for eternal suffering.

I have no idea if this variant of Humakt is still canonical.

What do the spirits want?

Maybe they want to move to another temple; maybe they want their temple to be 'reactivated'.

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It is not a difficult stretch to add Sea Lore. 

At a guess:

Sea Lore (00)
This Lore skill represents knowledge of the waters, its moods and some understanding of its inhabitants and ecology, including animals and plants. It also permits the adventurer making a successful roll to understand the signs apparent in the sea and sky, to judge the conditions of the currents, waves, tides, and to a lesser degree the weather as it pertains to sailing. It works equally well in any sea or ocean.
 

My guess.... based on a sailor of the southern coast of Genertela.

Sailor Profession
Sailors are found in the sea ports of the coast, and in the ports of the larger inland lakes such as Lake Felster in Ralios. They live by working aboard ship, either warships or merchant vessels, sailing between the greater and lesser ports of the southern coast.
Homelands: many sailors have wandered from inland, but their most common homelands are Esrolia, Rightarm Islands, Heortland, Maniria, Seshnela, and Teshnos. Sailors from further away may be encountered, especially at Nochet, Karse, Handra, and Noloswal.
Occupation Skills: Craft (Boat) or Shiphandling +15%, Craft Wood +10%, Cult Lore +15%, Devise +5%, Meditate +5%, Open Seas +10%, Sea Lore +10%, Speak (Boatspeech) +5%, Swim +10%, and Worship +20%.
Standard of Living: Poor
Base Income: 60L
Cults: Dormal, Diros.
Favored Passions: Loyalty (ship)
Ransom: 200L
Equipment: Cultural weapons, tools, 30m rope, 60L in goods. A rower will have their leather or sheepskin cushion.

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

(oddly, compare that to Arms & Armies of DP.... which is treated as virtually canon by Chaosium)

This is news to me.🙂

20 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Yelmalio was first revealed by Nysalor at the Battle of Night and Day

An avatar of the Little Sun was revealed by Nysalor, but other avatars such as Kargzant long predate Nysalor.

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Yeah, and realistically speaking, how many of these farmers actually have mounts?

Most Yelmalions are peasant farmers and are unlikely to have horses. However, Sun Dome temples outside Prax are likely to have their own herds. The Yelmalion nobility are likely to learn to ride and drive chariots, but most of the laity will not, meaning that Kuschile's skill enables the raising of a mounted militia when necessary, including the protection of the flanks of the phalangite phalanx.

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

From a gaming point of view, it's a pointless skill.

Not if you are playing a Yelmalion who has little or no ride skill.

16 hours ago, Dogboy said:

I worry that RQG and it's supplements are undermining that somewhat.

The available material primarily represents Dragon Pass, Prax, and the Holy Country, which is a very small area, and to a lesser degree southern Peloria. That's a relatively small geographic area. For a wider view, there's the Guide.

4 hours ago, icebrand said:

... I think people want cults that "suck" to suck less, not a reassurance that yes, the war cult for soldiers has no magic for soldiers, and the mouted troops have no magic for archery, or horses, or knows how to ride, and actually never mind, apparently the cult that teaches kuschile and speak with horses doesnt even have horses (seriously?).

Yelmalions in Saird and Dragon Pass have access to horses. Only in Prax, where, due to hostility of the Animal Nomads, did the Sun Dome Temple there lose its cavalry and chariotry. The cult in Prax is an outlier, with a very distinct history.

Horse archery goes back a long way, and from at least two distinct traditions in Eurasia. 

The nomads of the steppes and the settled peoples. For example, there's an argument that Mesopotamian horse archery evolved from chariot archery, so that, for example, on Assyrian reliefs, the chariot driver and archer were replaced by horseman and archer, still operating as a pair, as shown in this illustration by Angus McBride - later both would have been equipped with bows. These Assyrians are farmers, or from farming stock.

There are suggestions that steppe horse archery may have evolved in a similar way, long before the horse (and chariot) were brought into the Near East - it's one of those things we will never know.

Whatever the tradition, the horse archer, unless heavily armored, fought as light cavalry.

I can see Yelmalion horse archery in Saird, following a similar path as the Meopotamian. This picture might be taken as showing a Yelmalion using his Kuschile archery skill.

There's a great deal of information about hoplite and phalangite phalanxes, including primary and secondary weapons in:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/296535/The-Armies-and-Enemies-of-Dragon-Pass?src=hottest_filtered

3 hours ago, Soccercalle said:

I am trying to find the "Old Wind Temple" (where Londra is). But can't find it on the map.     

Old Wind: High on the eastern face of Stormwalk Mountain is Old Wind, a temple devoted to the wind and its potent energies.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So assuming that a lot of silk, spices and maybe some rice comes from the Nochet colony on Melib in Dosakayo and from Lur Nop in Wanzow to Karse, what is going the other way, wine, bronze, what else, wool? Possibly Amazonian slaves are also coming to the Holy Country? Is there high quality ceramics, tea?

Amazon slaves are unlikely. The Holy Country will probably be sending artifacts, cloth, copper, gems, metalworking, parchment, wine, and perhaps things like papyrus.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What might be dropped at Corflu (after 1611? Wasn't there a port "of sorts" there before then to service Pavis?) and picked up going the other way from the Holy Country?

Corflu was never a major port, and at most ships might go there to refill their water tanks, but they can do that without stopping at such a sorry excuse of a port.

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Hurlant Wolf is farther south - the "mouth" is the Horting Sound (the Bullflood outflow).  The upper jaw/snout is the Hurlant plateau between the Syphon and the Bullflood.  The lower jaw is between Horting Sound (Bullflood) and Vizel Sount (Minthos).

Looking at the coastline, Sklar looks to sit at the hinge of the Hurlant Wolf's cub's jaw.... The headlands between the Solthi and Syphon look to form the jaws of a lesser wolf?

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

There is a fleet-building center at Sklar along the coast, but that was maintained by the God-king and has been raided multiple times by the Wolf Pirates after 1616.

They might offer sacrifices to the Hurlant Wolf to protect them from the pirates?

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would it be similar to the cityscape depicted in Mark Smylie's wonderful rendering of Nochet (for an upcoming Jonstown Compendium) on a much smaller scale?

No. Nochet is an ancient port metropolis; Jansholm is a large city, but not accessible by sea-going ships as I understand it. Sklar, near the mouth of the Solthi River is a shipbuilding site.

In that picture you see what are probably the largest temples to Ernalda and to Issaries anywhere, and the same is probably true of the temple of Dormal. All three probably have near unique architecture. The Solthi isn't navigable as far upriver as Jansholm.